Specialities with best work/life balance? (2 Viewers)

[emilios]

So we all know things vary quite a bit even within a certain speciality (some surgeons can work 80hrs pw, some can be on for 2 days a week), but on average, which speciality is going to guarantee the closest to a 40 hr working week? Is General Practice/Family Medicine still the best bet in this regard? I've heard Physical Medicine/Rehab Medicine can be quite good with this but I don't think it's so big in Australia (I could be mistaken but there doesn't seem to be too much Oz specific info on it).

 

[mreditor16]

hmmm I get where you're coming from Emilios with this Q. I don't know the answer to it. But at the same time, you do need to consider which area/specialty interests you the most - that should be part of the decision imo

 

[emilios]

hmmm I get where you're coming from Emilios with this Q. I don't know the answer to it. But at the same time, you do need to consider which area/specialty interests you the most - that should be part of the decision imo

oh yeah for sure

but if neurosurg was my passion i still think i'd be 2nd guessing it cos like... 80 hr weeks no ty LOL

 

[RishBonjour99]

Also interested in this. Medman pls respond.

 

[MiseryParade]

Also interested in this. Medman pls respond.

Are you taking Newcastle med or staying with law?

 

[iStudent]

Also interested in this. Medman pls respond.

I'd like to know too... Then I could decide between General Practice (which is what I want to do at the moment) and specialising. Is there a link to something that lists all specialties and their descriptions?

 

[RishBonjour99]

Are you taking Newcastle med or staying with law?

I deferred until next year (2016) because still not 100% sure. I'm fairly set for my comm/law degree so its a hard decision but I'm definitely leaning towards med from talking to countless people over the past 2-3 weeks and researching (convinced 2 of my other mates to go for med - fairly sure they'll make it in). Just wish I knew this crap in year 12 and did the umat then (Listen to your parents kids!). My decision has been mainly around the lifestyle choice I want. If I want to stay in the high-end jobs with my current degree, I will have to pull in insane hours (higher than the most insane med gets) and I don't want to drop down to mediocre/mind numbing jobs either.


@iStudent, yeah I think I found one a couple of days back after googling. Also check out couple of the med websites like medstudentonline, or Paging Dr. Are you going into Newcastle this year?

 

[JasonG123]

I deferred until next year (2016) because still not 100% sure. I'm fairly set for my comm/law degree so its a hard decision but I'm definitely leaning towards med from talking to countless people over the past 2-3 weeks and researching (convinced 2 of my other mates to go for med - fairly sure they'll make it in).

Good call mate. You'll have alot more information to base your decision on in a year and at least you'll have a Comm degree to fall back on then.

 

[Kiraken]

GPs tend to have a better work/life balance than most specialties if you eventually get to opening up your own practice

 

[Kiraken]

So we all know things vary quite a bit even within a certain speciality (some surgeons can work 80hrs pw, some can be on for 2 days a week), but on average, which speciality is going to guarantee the closest to a 40 hr working week? Is General Practice/Family Medicine still the best bet in this regard? I've heard Physical Medicine/Rehab Medicine can be quite good with this but I don't think it's so big in Australia (I could be mistaken but there doesn't seem to be too much Oz specific info on it).

tbf the latter are still working a lot of hours, they are simply committed to non-theatre work like clinics etc. during those hours

 

[MiseryParade]

I deferred until next year (2016) because still not 100% sure. I'm fairly set for my comm/law degree so its a hard decision but I'm definitely leaning towards med from talking to countless people over the past 2-3 weeks and researching (convinced 2 of my other mates to go for med - fairly sure they'll make it in). Just wish I knew this crap in year 12 and did the umat then (Listen to your parents kids!). My decision has been mainly around the lifestyle choice I want. If I want to stay in the high-end jobs with my current degree, I will have to pull in insane hours (higher than the most insane med gets) and I don't want to drop down to mediocre/mind numbing jobs either.


@iStudent, yeah I think I found one a couple of days back after googling. Also check out couple of the med websites like medstudentonline, or Paging Dr. Are you going into Newcastle this year?

Sounds like the best decision you could have made at this point tbh. I'm curious - what are your reasons for leaning towards med?

 

[iStudent]

I deferred until next year (2016) because still not 100% sure. I'm fairly set for my comm/law degree so its a hard decision but I'm definitely leaning towards med from talking to countless people over the past 2-3 weeks and researching (convinced 2 of my other mates to go for med - fairly sure they'll make it in). Just wish I knew this crap in year 12 and did the umat then (Listen to your parents kids!). My decision has been mainly around the lifestyle choice I want. If I want to stay in the high-end jobs with my current degree, I will have to pull in insane hours (higher than the most insane med gets) and I don't want to drop down to mediocre/mind numbing jobs either.


@iStudent, yeah I think I found one a couple of days back after googling. Also check out couple of the med websites like medstudentonline, or Paging Dr. Are you going into Newcastle this year?

Thanks I'll check it out. I'm going to New England (Yea I got it wrong earlier because I didn't read the "note" below it)

 

[Medman]

I think we have to separate consultants vs trainees. Consultants can make their work as flexible as they want but it will impact their income. You can easily work 2-3 days a week but your capacity to earn will be half of what you could do at full time. After training all these years do you really wish to do that?

Also different hospitals will also influence how busy are you. Westmead, St Vinnies, Liverpool all the major hospitals will require you to work your ass off. Smaller hospitals will give you more flexibility. I work in a smaller hospitals and I only have 4 patients on my list to sort out. This is my first proper week and I still went home late 3 times albeit by 1-1.5hrs because something came up at 4:30pm which is my clock off time. You won't be paid for that.

Below I will talk about the training pathways. Surgeons are notoriously known to be busy and often have to be oncall to deal with emergencies. Avoid surgery if you want flexibility because it will give you none.

GPs have good flexibility but there is stigma behind choosing it. My consultant asked why I wanted to do GP training and I said because the system is crap. He then said well you do realise you will be bored doing the job because I guess he can see my personality. He said it'll involve a lot of rewriting scripts and there will be few diagnostic challenges that he often sees.

As a physician you are expected to know a lot. Just had a registrar talk about a disease that occurs in 5/100000 people. If they aren't working they will most likely be studying. There are also many registrars doing masters and research which puts them at 60+ hour work weeks if you include them working on their project.
Radiology training is pretty brutal given the advancement of technology it will get harder as more tests will be available. Remember you will also be sitting in a dark room all day pretty much. Sure you get paid quite a bit but there will be no patient contact.
Gastroenterology, cardiology and those physician specialties with procedural work will tend to be more busy than those that don't. Rheumatology and dermatology has good working hours. Dermatology you pretty much need to be DUX of your cohort in a Tier 1 university (I am not 100% sure if this is the case but this is what I heard. Qld ranks universities by Tiers, so the smaller universities such as UNDS might not be as well recognised) in order to get in.

Gynaecology would be good except you have to do obstetrics and gynaecology together when you're training. Obstetrics is where you earn the most money. O&G doctors are known to have the worst life balances as women can't control when they give birth. I heard someone say you build up clients from your obstetrics practice and drive that into your gynaecology practice. I don't have too much experience in doctors doing gynaecology alone. They generally subspecialise in gynaecology oncology or urogynaecology.

 

[Medman]

I think we have to separate consultants vs trainees. Consultants can make their work as flexible as they want but it will impact their income. You can easily work 2-3 days a week but your capacity to earn will be half of what you could do at full time. After training all these years do you really wish to do that?

Also different hospitals will also influence how busy are you. Westmead, St Vinnies, Liverpool all the major hospitals will require you to work your ass off. Smaller hospitals will give you more flexibility. I work in a smaller hospitals and I only have 4 patients on my list to sort out. This is my first proper week and I still went home late 3 times albeit by 1-1.5hrs because something came up at 4:30pm which is my clock off time. You won't be paid for that.

Below I will talk about the training pathways. Surgeons are notoriously known to be busy and often have to be oncall to deal with emergencies. Avoid surgery if you want flexibility because it will give you none.

GPs have good flexibility but there is stigma behind choosing it. My consultant asked why I wanted to do GP training and I said because the system is crap. He then said well you do realise you will be bored doing the job because I guess he can see my personality. He said it'll involve a lot of rewriting scripts and there will be few diagnostic challenges that he often sees.

As a physician you are expected to know a lot. Just had a registrar talk about a disease that occurs in 5/100000 people. If they aren't working they will most likely be studying. There are also many registrars doing masters and research which puts them at 60+ hour work weeks if you include them working on their project.
Radiology training is pretty brutal given the advancement of technology it will get harder as more tests will be available. Remember you will also be sitting in a dark room all day pretty much. Sure you get paid quite a bit but there will be no patient contact.
Gastroenterology, cardiology and those physician specialties with procedural work will tend to be more busy than those that don't. Rheumatology and dermatology has good working hours. Dermatology you pretty much need to be DUX of your cohort in a Tier 1 university (I am not 100% sure if this is the case but this is what I heard. Qld ranks universities by Tiers, so the smaller universities such as UNDS might not be as well recognised) in order to get in.

Gynaecology would be good except you have to do obstetrics and gynaecology together when you're training. Obstetrics is where you earn the most money. O&G doctors are known to have the worst life balances as women can't control when they give birth. I heard someone say you build up clients from your obstetrics practice and drive that into your gynaecology practice. I don't have too much experience in doctors doing gynaecology alone. They generally subspecialise in gynaecology oncology or urogynaecology.

 

[Schmeag]

Roughly, worklife balance of specialties as a consultant (post training) is as follows:
Somewhat good: GP, anaesthetics, radiology, pathology, dermatology, ophthalmology, rehabilitation medicine, palliative care medicine, endocrinology, rheumatology, psychiatry, neurology, ?sports medicine
Not sure/in between/don't know: ENT surgery, cardiology, gastroenterology, oncology, haematology, nephrology, respiratory medicine, paediatrics, gynaecology, plastic surgery, urology, maxillofacial surgery, orthopaedic surgery, ED, upper GI surgery, breast and endocrine surgery
Somewhat bad: paediatric surgery, colorectal surgery, hepatobiliary surgery, neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, obstetrics, intensive care medicine, pre-hospital medicine

Caveats
- work-life balance as a trainee is different, sometimes better, but usually worse
- doesn't take private vs public into account
- every job is different
- many jobs have on-call (but get called more/less, may/may not have to come into hospital more often)
- you might not actually be able to get a job ie cardiology

There is a guide I used in second year medicine - I think it's called The Ultimate Guide to Choosing Medical Specialties.

 

[RishBonjour99]

Sounds like the best decision you could have made at this point tbh. I'm curious - what are your reasons for leaning towards med?

Couple of reasons but one of them is the lifestyle I want (same reason as a couple of my other mates who've already changed from comm/law to med). As Medman just mentioned the hours above, Generally, Medicine's 'extreme' hours (60-70ish?) are just above the 'average' for the top end jobs e.g. Investment Banking (although you'll make enough money to make you forget how much you're working) or Top-tier law (again, $$$$ in a couple of years). Secondly, the reason why one of my friend's brother changed to med at 27 from my 'current career path' is because you get tired of chasing clients - again I hate this. I dislike mediocrity so wouldn't settle for a dull 9-5 job either. It all depends on priorities, I have plenty of mates who got into both med at unsw/usyd and comm/law at usyd but are set on going into Investment Banking because that's the type of intensity they like + the Dosh. So far, I'm going to the med side.

Dermatology you pretty much need to be DUX of your cohort in a Tier 1 university (I am not 100% sure if this is the case but this is what I heard. Qld ranks universities by Tiers, so the smaller universities such as UNDS might not be as well recognised) in order to get in.

Thanks for your detailed response! Which universities come under that for NSW for 'tier 1'? just USYD and UNSW?

 

[RishBonjour99]

Sounds like the best decision you could have made at this point tbh. I'm curious - what are your reasons for leaning towards med?

Couple of reasons but one of them is the lifestyle I want (same reason as a couple of my other mates who've already changed from comm/law to med). As Medman just mentioned the hours above, Generally, Medicine's 'extreme' hours (60-70ish?) are just above the 'average' for the top end jobs e.g. Investment Banking (although you'll make enough money to make you forget how much you're working) or Top-tier law (again, $$$$ in a couple of years). Secondly, the reason why one of my friend's brother changed to med at 27 from my 'current career path' is because you get tired of chasing clients - again I hate this. I dislike mediocrity so wouldn't settle for a dull 9-5 job either. It all depends on priorities, I have plenty of mates who got into both med at unsw/usyd and comm/law at usyd but are set on going into Investment Banking because that's the type of intensity they like + the Dosh. Note that getting into IB at a firm like goldman sachs is probably harder than getting into med in Australia. So far, I'm going to the med side.

Dermatology you pretty much need to be DUX of your cohort in a Tier 1 university (I am not 100% sure if this is the case but this is what I heard. Qld ranks universities by Tiers, so the smaller universities such as UNDS might not be as well recognised) in order to get in.

Thanks for your detailed response! Which universities come under that for NSW for 'tier 1'? just USYD and UNSW?

 

[Schmeag]

Couple of reasons but one of them is the lifestyle I want (same reason as a couple of my other mates who've already changed from comm/law to med). As Medman just mentioned the hours above, Generally, Medicine's 'extreme' hours (60-70ish?) are just above the 'average' for the top end jobs e.g. Investment Banking (although you'll make enough money to make you forget how much you're working) or Top-tier law (again, $$$$ in a couple of years). Secondly, the reason why one of my friend's brother changed to med at 27 from my 'current career path' is because you get tired of chasing clients - again I hate this. I dislike mediocrity so wouldn't settle for a dull 9-5 job either. It all depends on priorities, I have plenty of mates who got into both med at unsw/usyd and comm/law at usyd but are set on going into Investment Banking because that's the type of intensity they like + the Dosh. Note that getting into IB at a firm like goldman sachs is probably harder than getting into med in Australia. So far, I'm going to the med side.

I hear this too. This is why I feel we medical people complain more than we should. Surgery, however, is a physical workout and you need to have both great physical and mental stamina to be constantly alert at odd hours of the day. Re: chasing clients, I am not sure what this entails specifically, but you will have to deal with complex patients and difficult interpersonal relationships in most aspects of clinical medicine.

Not sure about competition to get into firms, but comparison to getting into medicine is the wrong comparison. Compare it to getting into a top tier hospital for internship or getting into a training program ie dermatology - like other career pathways, it's not just about having the smarts, but also knowing people. If you want the money, commerce/law is by far a better investment - medicine is harder work for the money you earn. If you want job security, medicine is better.

 

[MiseryParade]

Couple of reasons but one of them is the lifestyle I want (same reason as a couple of my other mates who've already changed from comm/law to med). As Medman just mentioned the hours above, Generally, Medicine's 'extreme' hours (60-70ish?) are just above the 'average' for the top end jobs e.g. Investment Banking (although you'll make enough money to make you forget how much you're working) or Top-tier law (again, $$$$ in a couple of years). Secondly, the reason why one of my friend's brother changed to med at 27 from my 'current career path' is because you get tired of chasing clients - again I hate this. I dislike mediocrity so wouldn't settle for a dull 9-5 job either. It all depends on priorities, I have plenty of mates who got into both med at unsw/usyd and comm/law at usyd but are set on going into Investment Banking because that's the type of intensity they like + the Dosh. Note that getting into IB at a firm like goldman sachs is probably harder than getting into med in Australia. So far, I'm going to the med side.

Echoing strongly with everything you said here. I was tossing up between law, med and dent (UNSW med and law, UQ dent so "tier 1" I guess) and chose med for similar reasons as you.

Are you interested in the "science" side of medicine as well? Law to med is a pretty big jump academically.

 

[Medman]

UNSW and USYD are definitely tier 1 but not sure about Newcastle.

At the end of the day people who move into these specialties are generally those that are really passionate and driven especially for the super competitive specialties. Generally the super competitive specialties are the ones that have the best work/life balance and great pay.