the 2 aussies getting execuated in Indonesia (1 Viewer)

[Hardworking Knt]

Well it did get two drug traffickers off this planet...

notsureifsrs, nice 2 out of millions, like scooping a cup of water out of the ocean.

 

[someth1ng]

I think the capital punishment is stupid and it seems like it's more a result of an emotional response than an objective one in the sense that it feels natural to reach for the top shelf when punishing for any serious crime. I don't even agree with the life sentence (except murder, rape and a few others) if there's a decent chance of rehabilitation (eg drug trafficking) because it seems like an awful waste of time and money if you're going to put someone in jail and not even get anything out of it. People can make stupid choices and I don't see many single bad choices that deserve a whole lifetime in jail, people deserve a chance at redemption.

 

[classicjimbo]

Meanwhile two Iranians have their lives spared after importing 40kg of methamphetamines in to Indonesia.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...mmuted-to-life-in-prison-20150420-1mpe5n.html

almost 8x the amount of drugs than the nigerians that were executed were found with, haha wow clearly they didn't smuggle enough
lmao go BIG or go home we kill you

Chan and Sukumaran’s lawyer talked about the inconsistencies pretty well

"[we] were speaking the language of the law, whereas Joko Widodo, in a position of political weakness, was speaking the language of power...
An executive government like this, with desperate men whose political careers are failing through weakness, who are prepared to trash the legal system as they have and right over the top of it and treat it with contempt, then they’re making a powerful statement how the current government sees the law... It’s a triumph of power over rationality and over the slow processes of the law.”

The two individuals knew of what they were up against. They were sneaking drugs. That can result in the death penalty in many countries. If some countries didn't have strict rules. They would never progress. An example would be Singapore. They have very strict laws and they are doing well...

I vote that the death penalty should be used in the cases of murder, arms trafficking, and drugs. These things can be used to kill and will be used to kill, the death penalty is merely a method of preventing

singapore does well despite its dumb laws not because of them you big idiot

 

[wannaspoon]

notsureifsrs, nice 2 out of millions, like scooping a cup of water out of the ocean.

Your premise was based on the fact that it does nothing... When it in fact it did, it got two convicted drug traffickers off this planet...

Good riddance, anyone would repent because of a bullet with their name on it... Let that be a lesson to the rest of them...

 

[wannaspoon]

Food for thought...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-29/badami-our-selective-compassion-has-come-undone/6431266

Cliff notes: Australia is preaching to the choir...

 

[Kiraken]

Your premise was based on the fact that it does nothing... When it in fact it did, it got two convicted drug traffickers off this planet...

Good riddance, anyone would repent because of a bullet with their name on it... Let that be a lesson to the rest of them...

Except is there any evidence that capital punishment is a successful deterrent? Especially in the case of drug smuggling?

 

[cem]

Can someone explain the thing about the spirt guides?

Rather then use the term 'priest' or 'iman' they have come up with a general term to cover a person whose job is to provide some sort of spiritual comfort that can be applied to people of a range of different religions - or no religion if that is the wish.

In the case of the two Aussies they had Christian ministers with them but someone else might prefer a Buddhist or a Muslim cleric.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Except is there any evidence that capital punishment is a successful deterrent? Especially in the case of drug smuggling?

Not really and for all intents and purposes it doesn't have to be a deterrence to justify it.

You have to understand Asian countries have a strong affinity to apply death penalty to drugs because of the events that occurred in the opium wars and they don't really appreciate their countries being used as hubs for drug smuggling. It's more about sending a message than any legal deterrence because punishments rarely deter crimes. If it's a crime of passion/heat of the moment, yup nope. If it's a crime of economic gain then someone's gonna do it anyway. If it's a crime of mental illness (serial killers etc) it's not going to be stopped.

 

[atcha]

Personally, I have hated Australia's political response. We have acted like bullies threatening to withdraw foreign aid and ambassadors. Australia, would never attempt anything like that if the two were on death row in America. It is strange that for some reason we feel that it is acceptable to interfere with Indonesia's legislative system. I am against the use of the death penalty for their crimes but that doesn't change my condemnation of Australia's political response.

 

[jdennis]

There are a lot of people saying really stupid things about this topic (not necessarily on BOS, just in general).

A lot of people make the simultaneous claims that a) the death penalty deters criminals and b) the Bali Nine knew what the punishment for their crimes was so they deserve to be executed. Apparently point b) is temporarily ignored when arguing point a).

Next that drugs kill people therefore drug smugglers should be killed. Aside from the obvious hypocrisy in killing people in order make the point that we don't tolerate people being killed, this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Very few people are ever forced to take drugs. If you are going to take the risk of becoming addicted and facing the health issues that come with that, then that's your fault. No one ever tries to argue that people who sell cigarettes, alcohol or firearms (legally) should be executed - this analogy makes it clear how ridiculous that argument sounds.

Also consider that smugglers would have no business if there was no demand for the drugs. In other words, if people don't want to buy drugs, no one will bother taking the risks to try and smuggle them and then sell them. So to suggest that smugglers are the root cause of the problems associated with drugs is strange to say the least.

Anyway, in my view, no one should have the right to take the life of another.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Personally, I have hated Australia's political response. We have acted like bullies threatening to withdraw foreign aid and ambassadors. Australia, would never attempt anything like that if the two were on death row in America. It is strange that for some reason we feel that it is acceptable to interfere with Indonesia's legislative system. I am against the use of the death penalty for their crimes but that doesn't change my condemnation of Australia's political response.

The difference is death row in America is reserved for really really heinous crimes.

Withdrawing ambassadors and political response is actually quite normal and the indonesians are smart enough to expect that. Were doing the right move on a global scale. other countries have done the same things to indonesia when their citizens were executed, except much earlier. There is nothing wrong with our political response and it's standard. We didn't try to interfere with indonesia's legislative system, were trying to get them to abide by international treaties they have signed in regards to removing the death penalty. Executing all those people together was a political show on their part.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/brazil-...er-indonesian-executions-20150118-12sy5s.html

 

[Kiraken]

Not really and for all intents and purposes it doesn't have to be a deterrence to justify it.

You have to understand Asian countries have a strong affinity to apply death penalty to drugs because of the events that occurred in the opium wars and they don't really appreciate their countries being used as hubs for drug smuggling. It's more about sending a message than any legal deterrence because punishments rarely deter crimes. If it's a crime of passion/heat of the moment, yup nope. If it's a crime of economic gain then someone's gonna do it anyway. If it's a crime of mental illness (serial killers etc) it's not going to be stopped.

what do you mean about "sending a message" though? What message and to whom?

If you're talking about sending a message to drug smugglers that they will be killed if they do it, that's essentially an argument for deterrence, and there is no evidence that suggests it is effective.

If you're talking about sending a message to other countries that your country is tough and not to be messed with, well killing people for what is effectively political posturing is pretty pathetic lol

 

[wannaspoon]

Except is there any evidence that capital punishment is a successful deterrent? Especially in the case of drug smuggling?

Is imprisonment a successful deterrent?

 

[Kiraken]

Is imprisonment a successful deterrent?

that completely misses the point, because at least imprisonment gives a chance of rehabilitation

 

[D94]

Is imprisonment a successful deterrent?

Just because imprisonment might not be a successful deterrent does not mean capital punishment is a viable alternative. Your question is meaningless in this context.

 

[Hardworking Knt]

Your premise was based on the fact that it does nothing... When it in fact it did, it got two convicted drug traffickers off this planet...

Good riddance, anyone would repent because of a bullet with their name on it... Let that be a lesson to the rest of them...

There is no evidence of capital punishment deterring or having any effect on indonesia's "war on drugs." That is what i meant by nothing, dont get pedantic over a word i said. For all intents and purposes, the death penalty achieves nothing. Once again 2 out of millions is nothing, fair and simple. This isnt the dark ages, anyone supporting the death penalty regardless of crime needs to have their morals and common sense checked.

Quite ironic that theyre trying to stop a death-causing crime with death.

 

[wannaspoon]

what I am actually laughing about is the about face that the media has put on... Completely agree with that headline... From 11 Feb 2006...

Now they have the nerve to label convicted drug traffickers as heroes... wow...

Having a good laugh at the "new laws being proposed" to stop intelligence agencies and the AFP from reporting capital punishment offences to countries that offer capital punishment... If this was an Australian returning from Syria fighting with ISIS a different tune will be sung in relation to these laws...

 

[isildurrrr1]

Is imprisonment a successful deterrent?

To their perspective it's not about deterrence or rehabilitation but justice. You can argue all day is justice really served but to them, it is what it is.

Kiraken: it's a message to everyone. their populace that they won't tolerate foreign drug smugglers, the world that their judicial system won't be interfered with and drug smugglers don't fucking do this (they have signs in airports as well).

 

[isildurrrr1]

what I am actually laughing about is the about face that the media has put on... Completely agree with that headline... From 11 Feb 2006...

Now they have the nerve to label convicted drug traffickers as heroes... wow...

Having a good laugh at the "new laws being proposed" to stop intelligence agencies and the AFP from reporting capital punishment offences to countries that offer capital punishment... If this was an Australian returning from Syria fighting with ISIS a different tune will be sung in relation to these laws...

On a side note we signed an agreement that any fighters we capture in Iraq (including aussies) will be handed over to iraqi authorities.

 

[wannaspoon]

On a side note we signed an agreement that any fighters we capture in Iraq (including aussies) will be handed over to iraqi authorities.

to twitch on the noose...