The validity of English as a subject. (1 Viewer)

[SammySpicer]

I've recently sent an essay to the BOS curriculum equiries email. It is about the validity of English as a subject and ways in which it may be improved. So, here it is...

Greetings. As I'm sure you know, English is the one subject that is mandatory for the HSC. I firmly believe that education concerning grammar, punctuation, and writing skills is necessary within today's society. The BOS English curriculum succeeds without a doubt in teaching students these critical skills. However, the secondary education English course completely stops teaching students practical knowledge after Year 8. It would be beneficial if language skills were reintroduced into the course.

Another issue is the nature of literature study. English has evolved to the point that class time is spent mostly on searching for abstract symbolism and meaning which the author arguably did not intend to include (English teachers often seem to qualify niche references with some symbolism. One of my English teachers said that Shaun Tan's adaption of the Australian painting "Collins Street 5pm" in "The Lost Thing" was to contrast the whimsical nature of the Lost Thing to the dull society. It's likely that it was more of a niche reference). I've found that the complete deconstruction of literature ruins any enjoyment that I may have previously derived from it. Seeing as one of the purposes of the English literature course is to expose students to famous and interesting texts so that they may develop a greater interest in consuming these texts, it would be counter-productive to remove the pleasure factor from the equation.

English's subjectivity is also an issue considering that English is a compulsory subject for the HSC. Is it fair to award one person a higher mark than another because their points in a critical review or an essay were more agreeable in one marker's perspective. Currently there are no fair regulations or marking schemes by which every essay is subject to. The massive quantity of papers ensures that there must be multiple markers, each of who harbor differing perspectives. The ATARs of some people who excel in objective subjects of greater importance within the workplace such as mathematics and science often don't reflect the true ability of the students - as they may find English difficult.

In short, what I'm suggesting is that English loses its mandatory status in the HSC. While attending the subject during secondary education should remain compulsory, students should have the ability to not count English in their ATAR providing they can fulfill the 10 unit requirement with other subjects.

Thank you very much for your consideration.
Sincerely, S. Jacobs.

 

[Drsoccerball]

Come on we need english so we know how to memorise essays

 

[teridax]

Come on we need hsc english so we know how to memorise essays

ftfy

 

[Kiraken]

"English has evolved to the point that class time is spent mostly on searching for abstract symbolism and meaning which the author arguably did not intend"

Meaning doesn't come from the author's intent lol and this part of your correspondence betrays a lack of understanding as to what it is essentially about.

Having said that, legit kudos for actually contacting bostes and expressing your view, irrespective of how anyone feels about your opinion, it's good you had the initiative to express it.

 

[Kiraken]

Also english marking does have an element of subjectivity, however there is actually objective assessment too, namely how you structure your essay, the sophistication of your response, the validity of your points in terms of the textual evidence you use to back it up, respecting textual integrity etc.

I guess when it comes to creative writing, your argument about subjectivity is perhaps more valid, but again there are certain standards in the marking criteria that need to be met for a good mark, so it's not completely dependent on the marker you get.

 

[Ello1234]

Is HSC english really that bad? Is it all exams?

I live in QLD and for english we have only like 2 exams in year 12 and the rest are just assignments and orals.

 

[InteGrand]

Is HSC english really that bad? Is it all exams?

I live in QLD and for english we have only like 2 exams in year 12 and the rest are just assignments and orals.

In NSW HSC most assessments for most main subjects tend to be exam-based.

 

[rjbaldwin116]

I believe that Maths should be the compulsory subject. Just saying...

 

[sourmilk]

I've been wondering for a while now why English is a compulsory subject in the HSC, and I'm pretty sure it derives from the idea that English focuses more on critical thinking rather than ROTE learning.
A lot of other subjects require simply ROTE learning, but English enhances those critical thinking skills which can universally apply in other subjects that require long responses, hence why Maths and Science and not compulsory because most of the skills you learn isn't applicable anywhere else.
However, I also don't agree with English being a compulsory subject based on subjectivity.
In other news, I once rhetorically asked aloud "Why is English even compulsory?" and this girl snarkyily replied "Maybe it's because we're in an English speaking country?" -___-

 

[BOS Secret Service]

I get that there is a criteria for a "Bad" essay. But when you are in the top band, how can you say a 17/20 is different from a 20/20 by three marks?

 

[BOS Secret Service]

I've been wondering for a while now why English is a compulsory subject in the HSC, and I'm pretty sure it derives from the idea that English focuses more on critical thinking rather than ROTE learning.
A lot of other subjects require simply ROTE learning, but English enhances those critical thinking skills which can universally apply in other subjects that require long responses, hence why Maths and Science and not compulsory because most of the skills you learn isn't applicable anywhere else.
However, I also don't agree with English being a compulsory subject based on subjectivity.
In other news, I once rhetorically asked aloud "Why is English even compulsory?" and this girl snarkyily replied "Maybe it's because we're in an English speaking country?" -___-

Please. The amount of rote learning in english is unbelievable. Plus, the fact you need to actually understand on top of that as well.

 

[SammySpicer]

Maths is definitely not about rote learning. If you do any of the extension courses you have to learn how to determine and apply theorems and identities to show a certain result or determine a solution.
For instance, you can't learn how to rote learn how to find the roots of a fifth degree polynomial (or just anything higher than a fourth degree polynomial for that matter), and you most certainly can't learn an inductive reasoning which applies to every statement. E.g, if I asked you to prove that the sum of three consecutive cubes is divisible by 9, you wouldn't have memorized a specific proof for it. The skills learnt in maths enhance critical thinking skills, reasoning, and the mind in general.

 

[sourmilk]

Please. The amount of rote learning in english is unbelievable. Plus, the fact you need to actually understand on top of that as well.

I'm not sure about you but English require individuals to think critically for themselves? Sure, the teacher can pump out information and the students can regurgitate it and form a decent essay or what not but I'm pretty sure thinking critically is what pushes you up the ranks. Like majority of the texts for English that you learn has students interpret it themselves, hence why there's always a different view for each essay they write etc. You can't just memorise the syllabus for English and do OK in the exam, unlike subjects like Biology and Business Studies.
and my point was really that English helps you develop more skills for many things rather the subject alone.

 

[sourmilk]

Maths is definitely not about rote learning. If you do any of the extension courses you have to learn how to determine and apply theorems and identities to show a certain result or determine a solution.
For instance, you can't learn how to rote learn how to find the roots of a fifth degree polynomial (or just anything higher than a fourth degree polynomial for that matter), and you most certainly can't learn an inductive reasoning which applies to every statement. E.g, if I asked you to prove that the sum of three consecutive cubes is divisible by 9, you wouldn't have memorized a specific proof for it. The skills learnt in maths enhance critical thinking skills, reasoning, and the mind in general.

Yeah that'll be useful if you're generally good at maths and can afford to do 2U+ Maths, if you're in General, most of the mathematics you learn don't require that much application and most of the formulas are provided. However I do agree that 2U+ Maths do develop critical thinking, unless they change the syllabus for General then I don't think Maths is a viable subject for critical thinking.

 

[teridax]

I'm not sure about you but English require individuals to think critically for themselves? Sure, the teacher can pump out information and the students can regurgitate it and form a decent essay or what not but I'm pretty sure thinking critically is what pushes you up the ranks. Like majority of the texts for English that you learn has students interpret it themselves, hence why there's always a different view for each essay they write etc. You can't just memorise the syllabus for English and do OK in the exam, unlike subjects like Biology and Business Studies.
and my point was really that English helps you develop more skills for many things rather the subject alone.

What kind of skills though?

 

[sourmilk]

Based on personal experience:
Able to construct large bodies of writing coherently, time management (however this is probably a general skill in a lot of subjects), think critically (probably mentioned this one a lot, so I apologise) and having the same communication level/vocabulary with others.

Although I could sound extremely biased towards English having a subject, but I know English helped me more with the subjects I'm currently doing than others.

But as what someone said before, English is probably compulsory so it could be a placeholder for ATAR calculations.

 

[InteGrand]

Saying that the reason English must be compulsory is that we need a common subject for everyone for ATAR purposes is invalid; that just says we need some subject to be common to everyone, it doesn't say why English specifically must be compulsory.

 

[bleachigo]

.

 

[Drsoccerball]

"Because if you make maths count to your ATAR, that severely disadvantages those who aren't inclined at maths themselves. Think about it - the best scaling subjects are the maths and science and the not so good scaling subjects include visual arts, dance and music, etc. What happens when a student who's good at humanities and they suck at maths but still has to take it? They get screwed over and basically the ones who are more logically inclined get the great ATAR's which is obviously very unfair. That is why English has to count to your ATAR because it means that there's less bias for the maths and science people and gives the humanities people an equal chance of attaining a good ATAR."

This sounded so stupid ahhaah... Im not english inclined so its unfair for me now... Obviously the more logical people deserve the higher atars... It gives illogical people a higher chance of beating the more logical ones though...

 

[mrpotatoed]

Every time I see someone defending English I can almost feel brain cells dying