Moderate muslims? (3 Viewers)

[dan964]

In response to that video here are the facts from UNICEF
http://www.unicef.org/media/files/FGCM_Brochure_Lo_res.pdf
" While the majority of cut girls and women are Muslim, other religious groups also practise FGM/C"
Yes it is mainly an African thing with the exception of Iraq and Yemen.
Eritrea seems to be the only major Non-Muslim country of about 50% wanting the practice to continue.
1 - 98, 2 - 96, 3 - 91, 4 - 89, 6 - 88, 8 - 76, 10 - 74, 11 - 69, 12 - 66, 13 - 50


1. Somalia - Sunni Muslim (Islam) (official, according to the Transitional Federal Charter) (99%)
2. Guinea - Muslim 85%, Christian 8%, indigenous beliefs 7%
3. Egypt - Muslim (predominantly Sunni) 90%, Christian (majority Coptic Orthodox) 10% (2012 est.)
=4. Mali - Muslim 94.8%, Christian 2.4%, Animist 2%, none 0.5%, unspecified 0.3% (2009 Census)
=4. Eritrea - Muslim, Coptic Christian, Roman Catholic, Protestant (Christians make up 50%, Muslims 48% 2011)
=6. Sierra Leone - Muslim 60%, Christian 10%, indigenous beliefs 30%
=6. Sudan - Sunni Muslim, small Christian minority
=8. Burkina Faso - Muslim 60.5%, Catholic 19%, animist 15.3%, Protestant 4.2%, other 0.6%, none 0.4% (2006 est.)
=8. Gambia, The - Muslim 90%, Christian 8%, indigenous beliefs 2%
10. Ethiopia - Ethiopian Orthodox 43.5%, Muslim 33.9%, Protestant 18.5%, traditional 2.7%, Catholic 0.7%, other 0.6% (2007 est.)
11. Mauritania - Islam is by far the largest and most influential religion in the country, and has been since the 10th century. According to government census, 100% of the country's citizens are Muslim. Like much of North Africa, Mauritanians follow the Maliki school of Islam.
12. Liberia - Christian 85.6%, Muslim 12.2%, Traditional 0.6%, other 0.2%, none 1.4% (2008 Census)
13. Guinea-Bissau - Muslim 45.1%, Christian 22.1%, animist 14.9%, none 2%, unspecified 15.9% (2008 est.)

There you have the top 13. There is the data, of the list, Liberia, Ethiopia are predominantly Christian countries; while the rest are Muslim. Eritrea is roughly split 50/50 between Christian/Muslim. There is no direct exact correlation between religion and this practice; and yes seems to be more of an North African/West Africa cultural thing/practice.

So the video is mostly correct.

 

[RishBonjour99]

In response to that video here are the facts from UNICEF
http://www.unicef.org/media/files/FGCM_Brochure_Lo_res.pdf
" While the majority of cut girls and women are Muslim, other religious groups also practise FGM/C"
Yes it is mainly an African thing with the exception of Iraq and Yemen.
Eritrea seems to be the only major Non-Muslim country of about 50% wanting the practice to continue.
1 - 98, 2 - 96, 3 - 91, 4 - 89, 6 - 88, 8 - 76, 10 - 74, 11 - 69, 12 - 66, 13 - 50


1. Somalia - Sunni Muslim (Islam) (official, according to the Transitional Federal Charter) (99%)
2. Guinea - Muslim 85%, Christian 8%, indigenous beliefs 7%
3. Egypt - Muslim (predominantly Sunni) 90%, Christian (majority Coptic Orthodox) 10% (2012 est.)
=4. Mali - Muslim 94.8%, Christian 2.4%, Animist 2%, none 0.5%, unspecified 0.3% (2009 Census)
=4. Eritrea - Muslim, Coptic Christian, Roman Catholic, Protestant (Christians make up 50%, Muslims 48% 2011)
=6. Sierra Leone - Muslim 60%, Christian 10%, indigenous beliefs 30%
=6. Sudan - Sunni Muslim, small Christian minority
=8. Burkina Faso - Muslim 60.5%, Catholic 19%, animist 15.3%, Protestant 4.2%, other 0.6%, none 0.4% (2006 est.)
=8. Gambia, The - Muslim 90%, Christian 8%, indigenous beliefs 2%
10. Ethiopia - Ethiopian Orthodox 43.5%, Muslim 33.9%, Protestant 18.5%, traditional 2.7%, Catholic 0.7%, other 0.6% (2007 est.)
11. Mauritania - Islam is by far the largest and most influential religion in the country, and has been since the 10th century. According to government census, 100% of the country's citizens are Muslim. Like much of North Africa, Mauritanians follow the Maliki school of Islam.
12. Liberia - Christian 85.6%, Muslim 12.2%, Traditional 0.6%, other 0.2%, none 1.4% (2008 Census)
13. Guinea-Bissau - Muslim 45.1%, Christian 22.1%, animist 14.9%, none 2%, unspecified 15.9% (2008 est.)

There you have the top 13. There is the data, of the list, Liberia, Ethiopia are predominantly Christian countries; while the rest are Muslim. Eritrea is roughly split 50/50 between Christian/Muslim. There is no direct exact correlation between religion and this practice; and yes seems to be more of an North African/West Africa cultural thing/practice.

So the video is mostly correct.

It's great that you noted that there is no direct correlation between religion and this practice. More correctly however - there is no causal relationship between religion and this practice even though there appears to be a correlation.

The reason I linked that video is because I personally tend to agree with a lot of what he pointed out regarding 'painting all 'muslim countries' the same way'. I've personally been and lived in a couple of the countries he named (non arab countries) certainly very different to what people who haven't travelled and have a narrow view of the world tend to think about "muslim countries". That's actually the other thing. Its easy to just talk rubbish about things people have no experience about and very little knowledge on.

 

[dan964]

The reason I linked that video is because I personally tend to agree with a lot of what he pointed out regarding 'painting all 'muslim countries' the same way'. I've personally been and lived in a couple of the countries he named (non arab countries) certainly very different to what people who haven't travelled and have a narrow view of the world tend to think about "muslim countries". That's actually the other thing. Its easy to just talk rubbish about things people have no experience about and very little knowledge on.

Yes, I agree would agree that for the most part, maybe with exception of Somalia and Sudan; there is no direct causal relationship between religion and this practice. It certainly seems to be limited to North, Central & West Africa (Iraq and Yemen are the only non-African countries where this has been reported). The more concerning thing which I didn't mention, but that is more crucial in this; is how many countries want the practice to stop, and whether that is influenced by religion/culture. Considering it seems to be again not causal directly, considering that most in Iraq as with countries like Benin, Togo, Niger, Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania having a high majority to stop; suggesting that religion did play a role; it would certainly be schools of thought/ideas within that religion (e.g. Maliki school of Islam; or a Christian denominations); rather than the whole religion. But it hardly would be the main factor, yes.

"I've personally been and lived in a couple of the countries he named (non-arab countries) certainly very different to what people who haven't travelled" - Of course. I have been to Turkey myself, which is a very moderate Muslim country that said. I would agree that it is wrong to paint them all with a broad brush; but also needs through investigation.

I am not a Muslim; nor anti-Muslim; I disagree with its teachings and a little bit with the claim that it [Islam] is religion of peace. But I do think that there needs to be sensible discussion on this; rather than what some in this forum want to do (which is get a provocative response).

 

[Drsoccerball]

Well according to my two definitions of peace Islam definetly a religion of peace according to the first definition but what we have to consider is that the two definitions are not mutually exclusive. Islam attempts to find a compromise in both the first definition and the second definition. However, if by having a war it significantly reduces the 1st meaning for peace then we fight against oppression to free ourselves from disturbance. In regards to statistics it is found that a total of 1200 people (Muslim and Non-Muslim) died in the totality of the wars in the time of the prophet (sas) as a percentage this was a total of 10% of the total fighters that have ever fought in the wars. Lets compare this to World War 1. There was a total death of 300% since civilians etc... Were killed. Based on this and many other wars(probably all) we can safely make the assumption that if followed right Islam is more peacefull than any other country/ideology that has partook in war. Also in regards to the interdependent events of the first definition to the second... Would it really be peacefull if someone is attacking you, killing your children, raping your mothers and wives and to just kindly hand over flowers to them? This will definetly violet the first definition of peace. But it is always taught to avoid war whenever possible to also conserve that meaning of peace as I quoted previously... Sorry for the dodge reply I slept 4 hours last night need some sleep Ill reply to your inbox when I have time.

 

[Kolmias]

Well according to my two definitions of peace Islam definetly a religion of peace according to the first definition but what we have to consider is that the two definitions are not mutually exclusive. Islam attempts to find a compromise in both the first definition and the second definition. However, if by having a war it significantly reduces the 1st meaning for peace then we fight against oppression to free ourselves from disturbance. In regards to statistics it is found that a total of 1200 people (Muslim and Non-Muslim) died in the totality of the wars in the time of the prophet (sas) as a percentage this was a total of 10% of the total fighters that have ever fought in the wars. Lets compare this to World War 1. There was a total death of 300% since civilians etc... Were killed. Based on this and many other wars(probably all) we can safely make the assumption that if followed right Islam is more peacefull than any other country/ideology that has partook in war. Also in regards to the interdependent events of the first definition to the second... Would it really be peacefull if someone is attacking you, killing your children, raping your mothers and wives and to just kindly hand over flowers to them? This will definetly violet the first definition of peace. But it is always taught to avoid war whenever possible to also conserve that meaning of peace as I quoted previously... Sorry for the dodge reply I slept 4 hours last night need some sleep Ill reply to your inbox when I have time.

I have no clue what you just wrote there.

 

[sinophile]

I'm not afraid of extremist muslims, what im really afraid of are extremist buddhists.

 

[Kolmias]

I'm not afraid of extremist muslims, what im really afraid of are extremist buddhists.

Is that sarcasm? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

 

[nerdasdasd]

I'm not afraid of extremist muslims, what im really afraid of are extremist buddhists.

Extremists exist in every religion.

 

[dan964]

Extremists exist in every religion.

yes and you don't have to religious to be an extremist either.
the issues are
1. the numbers of people (irrespective of whether a majority)
2. what the religion actually teaches (in terms of the text e.g. Vedas, Bible, Quran, Torah etc)
3. variance within the belief (e.g. Christianity's many denominations, Islam many schools; or two groups (Sunni/Shia))
(this also includes those who would be moderate and yet range from liberal to more conservative as well)

because these (1) to (3) differ from religion to religion, we cannot lump all in the same bundle as some people do.

 

[nerdasdasd]

yes and you don't have to religious to be an extremist either.
the issues are
1. the numbers of people (irrespective of whether a majority)
2. what the religion actually teaches (in terms of the text e.g. Vedas, Bible, Quran, Torah etc)
3. variance within the belief (e.g. Christianity's many denominations, Islam many schools; or two groups (Sunni/Shia))
(this also includes those who would be moderate and yet range from liberal to more conservative as well)

because these (1) to (3) differ from religion to religion, we cannot lump all in the same bundle as some people do.

Correct. Like there are far left and far right anti abortionists, anti refugees who are somewhat violent and problematic.

Irrespective of whether there is a majority in regards to Islam, the percentage is still high (as shown in the reality check video)

 

[dan964]

Correct. Like there are far left and far right anti abortionists, anti refugees who are somewhat violent and problematic.

Irrespective of whether there is a majority in regards to Islam, the percentage is still high (as shown in the reality check video)

Not that anti-abortion/pro-life or pro-abortionists ==>* "extremism"
But apart from that, I agree. Not a Muslim myself. I have seen that video; and yes it is high. But even if it as some data suggests 15-20%, that is 240-300 million radicalised Muslims; that is a large amount of people. It is kinda of irrelevant whether there is a majority, yes, because the peaceful people don't commit the violence, the radicals do.

*equates to/would equate to

 

[nerdasdasd]

Not that anti-abortion/pro-life or pro-abortionists ==> "extremism"
But apart from that, I agree. Not a Muslim myself. I have seen that video; and yes it is high. But even if it as some data suggests 15-20%, that is 240-300 million radicalised Muslims; that is a large amount of people. It is kinda of irrelevant whether there is a majority, yes, because the peaceful people don't commit the violence, the radicals do.

Yea .

But some Islamic leaders seem to blame the attacks on the "western hatred of Islam"', Islamaphobia, racism etc

Truth is , if not so much people from the religion did do so much attacks, then they wouldn't be targeted (people don't target for no reason at all)

If racism was so much of a factor, we would have lots of other ethnic minorities committing extreme crimes.

 

[dan964]

Yea .

But some Islamic leaders seem to blame the attacks on the "western hatred of Islam"', Islamaphobia, racism etc

Truth is , if not so much people from the religion did do so much attacks, then they wouldn't be targeted (people don't target for no reason at all)

For racism was so much of a factor, we would have lots of other ethnic minorities committing extreme crimes.

Nothing I don't agree with. Seems to be a lack of accountability/responsibility taken. Yes, hatred towards any group religious or not, is inexcusable.
But "Islamophobia", is a funny word how some use it, in fact I can almost say that certain words ending in "~phobia" are used as labels without any consideration for proper discourse concerning action/consequences, tolerance*; or working it out together as a global/multi-cultural community.

*not taken the recent popular culture meaning of "I must agree with everything you say and do, else I am intolerant".

 

[nerdasdasd]

Nothing I don't agree with. Seems to be a lack of accountability/responsibility taken. Yes, hatred towards any group religious or not, is inexcusable.
Islamophobia, is a funny word how some use it, in fact I can almost say that certain words ending in "-phobia" are used as simply labels without any consideration for proper discourse concerning action/consequences, tolerance; or working it out together as a global/multi-cultural community.

Pretty much. Fully agree with that. I see the word tossed around pretty easily and people shut up down to the fear of being "Islamaphobic".

Discussion is different from being Islamaphobic.

 

[dan964]

Pretty much. Fully agree with that. I see the word tossed around pretty easily and people shut up down to the fear of being "Islamaphobic".

Discussion is different from being Islamaphobic.

and I see it used with other "phobia" words too...
=====
I don't get the intentions of the OP either.