SMH article: offers below cutoff (2 Viewers)

[RishBonjour99]

http://m.smh.com.au/national/educat...-with-atars-as-low-as-30-20160125-gmdvr6.html

How accurate is this. 90% of offers to unsw law were to people with ATARS more than 10 points below cut off. Seems a bit off.

 

[rope]

Seems to be wrong or bad data in that 'how low does it go' section
It then says the average ATAR cut off is 97.7 for UNSW comb law, which seems far more accurate (fwiw, at usyd it's 99.1 for comb law).

 

[Green Yoda]

For physiotherapy at usyd it says 69% of the offers were more than 10 points or less. Does that mean less than 10 points? It doesn't seem very liable.

 

[HortonHears]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that there has been an error in the "how low does it go" section. The portions which are marked as "more than 10 points below" should actually be marked as "less than 10 points below" - it makes far more sense considering the information given at other points in the article.

 

[Ununoctium]

For some aspects, this article is unnecessarily scathing, and I criticise the validity of some of its research and rather accusatory findings.

The 91% of students falling below the 99.70 cut off for UNSW Combined Law should come at no surprise (and the vast majority of the 90% were only 0.1 to 2 points short of the 99.70). The reason why it should not be surprising is because, for the 2016 admission, UNSW Law had three 'alternative entry' pathways:
- The Elite Athletes and Performers Scheme (EAP);
- ACCESS scheme, or EAS disadvantage points;
- Indigenous Entry Schemes.

EAP consideration rewarded exceptional achievement in leadership, sports, performing arts and academia, thereby granting admission to more all-rounded students. This is why there were many students who fell below the 99.70 cut off, as consideration is given to their outstanding achievements (ie. being an Olympiad, achieving the Gold Duke of Ed Award, achieving an A.Mus.A etc.).

[As a side note, the UNSW will no longer use this scheme in 2017, replacing it with the Law Admissions Test (LAT), a UMAT-like entry test for Law. This will, in my view, effectively discriminate competition and attract more committed, intellectual LLB students.]

To account for other UNSW courses being below the cut off, like Combined Commerce, the UNSW offers a HSC Plus scheme, rewarding success in subjects relevant to degrees. These points can be used in conjunction with EAP, ACCESS and Indigenous consideration. The University of Sydney has an identical scheme for nearly all of their degrees: Flexible Entry.

To their credit, UNSW and USYD are very transparent about these schemes, and many 2015 students utilised them. Thus, it should NOT be of concern that students are below published cut offs at UNSW and USYD (who effectively control and moderate these schemes as well, just to add). Rather, I think WSU and MACQ, who give tertiary offers to students with ATARs of 30, is of significant concern.

 

[ilikecats]

This whole article is frustrating. The author is clearly manipulating statistics to push their views, and unfortunately the readers of this information are probably this least familiar to how the system works. Education is a right, not a privilege in order to keep degrees "prestigious".

Many people I know,myself included, missed out on our university preferences. Some were a few points short, others much further away. I only know of one person whos ATAR was well below and was still offered a place, and that was because they suffered a long term illness that kept them from excelling at school.

These people with ATARs well below the cutoff are the exception, not the norm. Most people miss out, and study something or somewhere else instead or go out and work. Everyone knows ATAR cutoff is supply and demand. Yeah somebody with a lower atar than you got into university. That doesn't mean they don't deserve the opportunity. They just need to work harder to prove they are as good as somebody else.

By the time everyone graduates and goes into the workforce it makes no real difference anyway. I've met plenty of idiots from many universities, and I've met some wonderful people too who came from backgrounds people look down at. Essentially 6 exams you sit when you are 17 or 18 don't represent your ability to succeed later, especially if your spoon fed to regurgitate information to suit a marking rubric.

Preventing mass degree education is something we need to address, but blocking access to education based on a ranking that itself is based esentially on exam results that can easily be manipulated to suit those with the resources is a stupider idea. People have the right to an education, but we need to make sure that everyone is picking the best pathway for them.

(Apologies for the rant. I feel like this topic happens once a year and each time I get more annoyed!)

 

[Paradoxica]

This whole article is frustrating. The author is clearly manipulating statistics to push their views, and unfortunately the readers of this information are probably this least familiar to how the system works. Education is a right, not a privilege in order to keep degrees "prestigious".

Many people I know,myself included, missed out on our university preferences. Some were a few points short, others much further away. I only know of one person whos ATAR was well below and was still offered a place, and that was because they suffered a long term illness that kept them from excelling at school.

These people with ATARs well below the cutoff are the exception, not the norm. Most people miss out, and study something or somewhere else instead or go out and work. Everyone knows ATAR cutoff is supply and demand. Yeah somebody with a lower atar than you got into university. That doesn't mean they don't deserve the opportunity. They just need to work harder to prove they are as good as somebody else.

By the time everyone graduates and goes into the workforce it makes no real difference anyway. I've met plenty of idiots from many universities, and I've met some wonderful people too who came from backgrounds people look down at. Essentially 6 exams you sit when you are 17 or 18 don't represent your ability to succeed later, especially if your spoon fed to regurgitate information to suit a marking rubric.

Preventing mass degree education is something we need to address, but blocking access to education based on a ranking that itself is based esentially on exam results that can easily be manipulated to suit those with the resources is a stupider idea. People have the right to an education, but we need to make sure that everyone is picking the best pathway for them.

(Apologies for the rant. I feel like this topic happens once a year and each time I get more annoyed!)

And besides, exams don't measure your true capacity.

 

[D94]

The 91% of students falling below the 99.70 cut off for UNSW Combined Law should come at no surprise (and the vast majority of the 90% were only 0.1 to 2 points short of the 99.70). The reason why it should not be surprising is because, for the 2016 admission, UNSW Law had three 'alternative entry' pathways:
- The Elite Athletes and Performers Scheme (EAP);
- ACCESS scheme, or EAS disadvantage points;
- Indigenous Entry Schemes (this accounts for the two students who achieved the 67 ATARs - nearly every University offers considerable consideration for Indigenous Australians).

It says:

You read that and you can see how poorly constructed this article is.

 

[T-R-O-L-O-L]

And besides, exams don't measure your true capacity.

True, but it is usually a reflection of your commitment, time management and many other factors.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Just great

Degrees will be worthless in the future .

All uni's will be good for are nice buildings,

 

[T-R-O-L-O-L]

Just great

Degrees will be worthless in the future .

All uni's will be good for are nice buildings,

Don't feel distraught. The buildings are only going to look better with more funds coming in from those illegitimate students.

 

[ilikecats]

All uni's will be good for are nice buildings,

Nah, unis will become housing and the only building that survives is the Jenga Tower.

 

[Chronost]

Two people with an ATAR of 67 got into UNSW law - mmmkayyy

 

[si2136]

Quite sure the statistics were being manipulated, was this normal students, or did they have some special treatment? For example, some Uni's allow a bonus point of 10 and have other bonus schemes.

 

[turntaker]

My classmate who got 45 atar got offered usyd comp sci (80.5 atar) lewl

 

[Ununoctium]

My classmate who got 45 atar got offered usyd comp sci (80.5 atar) lewl

Now that's wrong.

 

[turntaker]

Now that's wrong.

Yep shows that the article is not fake.

 

[EarthSci34]

Wow, this is upsetting. Will degrees become worthless now, since everyone is getting one?

 

[D94]

My classmate who got 45 atar got offered usyd comp sci (80.5 atar) lewl

and it's likely s/he will do poorly at uni as well

 

[turntaker]

Basically the degree is just a piece of paper. Its all about connections now.