SMH article: offers below cutoff (3 Viewers)

[DatAtarLyfe]

Its okay, the first cohort (us) will have the 'fairest' exam since we can't go off anything

Oh, i didnt know it was being implemented for 2016rs, i thought it started next year.
How are you planning on studying for it?

 

[BandSixFix]

Oh, i didnt know it was being implemented for 2016rs, i thought it started next year.
How are you planning on studying for it?

Well its for 2017 undergrads, which is us
HAHA, well, since I don't know a way to 'study' for it, the best I can do is let my 6 subjects of heavy essay writing prepare me <3

 

[Sien]

Oh, i didnt know it was being implemented for 2016rs, i thought it started next year.
How are you planning on studying for it?

he already has essay gainz, he's all set

 

[Ununoctium]

This person got accepted into Comm / Law @ UNSW with only 97.15 ...

http://community.boredofstudies.org...siness-studies-tutoring-unsw-law-student.html

Most likely EAP points or disadvantage consideration.

By the way, of interesting note, if you are eligible for the E12 scheme at the University of Sydney, you only need an ATAR of 95.00 to be admitted to Combined Law instead of 99.50. And instead of 99.00 for physiotherapy, you need just 85.00.


I'd also like to say that I agree 100% with the UNSW's Vice Chancellor and President. We need to move away from the ATAR as the single source of measuring academic potential and achievement. It is incredibly silly that we have a system where we assess the short-term future of a 17 year old on how well they perform in a handful of HSC exams (of subjects that they chose when they were 15 and 16). I'd like to move to a system that rewards all-roundedness and passion, as well as academic performance, as Ian Jacobs discussed. I guess that's what UNSW's EAP system tried to accomplish, by rewarding people's extra curricular activity and thus attracting a more all-rounded cohort for UNSW.

Perhaps universities should interview prospective students for professional degrees like Law, as they do with Medicine. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It would be slightly more burdensome for the universities, but it would allow students to demonstrate their interest and passion for these highly competitive professional courses. Students who seek work experience, who do extra curricular activities in these fields, who are proactive, would be rewarded. Instead of measuring student potential JUST on how well they do on a few papers, this would take into account anything they proactively do throughout years 11 and 12 (or even on their gap year/s). This system is highly effective for Medicine applications, so why can't it work for Law?

 

[Paradoxica]

Most likely EAP points or disadvantage consideration.

By the way, of interesting note, if you are eligible for the E12 scheme at the University of Sydney, you only need an ATAR of 95.00 to be admitted to Combined Law instead of 99.50. And instead of 99.00 for physiotherapy, you need just 85.00.


I'd also like to say that I agree 100% with the UNSW's Vice Chancellor and President. We need to move away from the ATAR as the single source of measuring academic potential and achievement. It is incredibly silly that we have a system where we assess the short-term future of a 17 year old on how well they perform in a handful of HSC exams (of subjects that they chose when they were 15 and 16). I'd like to move to a system that rewards all-roundedness and passion, as well as academic performance, as Ian Jacobs discussed. I guess that's what UNSW's EAP system tried to accomplish, by rewarding people's extra curricular activity and thus attracting a more all-rounded cohort for UNSW.

Perhaps universities should interview prospective students for professional degrees like Law, as they do with Medicine. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It would be slightly more burdensome for the universities, but it would allow students to demonstrate their interest and passion for these highly competitive professional courses. Students who seek work experience, who do extra curricular activities in these fields, who are proactive, would be rewarded. Instead of measuring student potential JUST on how well they do on a few papers, this would take into account anything they proactively do throughout years 11 and 12 (or even on their gap year/s). This system is highly effective for Medicine applications, so why can't it work for Law?

I would never make it into what I want, all I have is the passion, nothing else. Proof of academic achievement is non-existent.

 

[Speed6]

I would never make it into what I want, all I have is the passion, nothing else. Proof of academic achievement is non-existent.

What do you want to get into?

 

[Paradoxica]

What do you want to get into?

I thought that was very clear.

 

[Speed6]

I thought that was very clear.

Med?

 

[Nailgun]

I thought that was very clear.

Advanced Mathematics lele?

 

[leehuan]

Med?

Woah... have you seen his obsession with his maths?

 

[Paradoxica]

Med?

...Yes, I totally want to chase down something which requires an impossibly large amount of effort from oneself and work twice the hours for essentially the same amount of pay. Sounds like a great plan.

Advanced Mathematics lele?

Thank you very much for keeping my sanity in check.

Time to commence my daily prayer ritual to our great overlord, Gauss.

 

[Speed6]

Woah... have you seen his obsession with his maths?

I have and it's really impressive. I just wanted to see his intellectual reply on something he wouldn't really look at in terms of profession.

 

[Nailgun]

...Yes, I totally want to chase down something which requires an impossibly large amount of effort from oneself and work twice the hours for essentially the same amount of pay. Sounds like a great plan.



Thank you very much for keeping my sanity in check.

Time to commence my daily prayer ritual to our great overlord, Gauss.

Out of curiosity, what do you plan on doing with it in terms of a profession?
Would I be correct in assuming that you aren't as interested in applied mathematics?

 

[RecklessRick]

I guess that's what UNSW's EAP system tried to accomplish, by rewarding people's extra curricular activity and thus attracting a more all-rounded cohort for UNSW.

From what I understand, that's not necessarily the actual reasoning of EAP points. The concept behind allowing extra-curricular performance to compensate for academic underperformance is that those who fall into the category of "elite" have such a large commitment to their chosen sport, instrument, etc. that this has been a detriment to their HSC performance. That is, should they not have done whatever extra-curricular, they would have had more time to study and as such received a high enough ATAR for their course. Obviously this is not a perfect measure by any means in that students who may not be 'elite' but very high tier in several different ventures simultaneously may actually be expending more effort than those who only do one extra-curricular to an 'elite' level. Similarly, it is clearly going to be an imperfect measure of the amount of effort expended by students and the level of study they forgo in becoming 'elite'. On the other hand, this does also serve to increase a university's candidature of 'well rounded' individuals which would be positive for the sporting and cultural environment of the university, as you suggest.

Personally I agree with (I think it was) soulful in this thread who criticised EAP points for the fact that these are students training to be mathematicians or engineers or policy experts, not whatever their sport is, and so this should not be relevant to their selection. The rebuttal to this is of course what I see to be the primary reason for EAP points - compensation for time spent unable to study. I do think Usyd probably does better than unsw by having a tighter EAP scheme though. For the most part, students do not act against their academic interests in their extra-curriculars unless they are genuinely committed to an elite level.

Perhaps universities should interview prospective students for professional degrees like Law, as they do with Medicine. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It would be slightly more burdensome for the universities, but it would allow students to demonstrate their interest and passion for these highly competitive professional courses. Students who seek work experience, who do extra curricular activities in these fields, who are proactive, would be rewarded. Instead of measuring student potential JUST on how well they do on a few papers, this would take into account anything they proactively do throughout years 11 and 12 (or even on their gap year/s). This system is highly effective for Medicine applications, so why can't it work for Law?

I'd agree with this. I'd say we should be moving towards the application systems used by the elite US and UK unis. Whilst it is a pain to complete multiple supplementary essays and an interview for each university, in the long run I think it would be effective in selecting the students who are truly the best. Interviewing for law is slightly troublesome in that many solicitors may never have to talk to clients whilst most medical doctors will have to at some stage (correct me if I'm wrong aspiring med students), but it would be an effective method of weeding out those doing the degree for prestige or just as a generalist degree.

 

[Paradoxica]

I have and it's really impressive. I just wanted to see his intellectual reply on something he wouldn't really look at in terms of profession.

It is mostly a choice people make based on cultural norms and mythconceptions, there are far better career investments out there, both monetarily and temporally.

 

[RishBonjour99]

...Yes, I totally want to chase down something which requires an impossibly large amount of effort from oneself and work twice the hours for essentially the same amount of pay. Sounds like a great plan.



Thank you very much for keeping my sanity in check.

Time to commence my daily prayer ritual to our great overlord, Gauss.

Essentially same amount of pay to what?

Do what you're interested in - if you're in the top of virtually ANY field, there is plenty of cash. Also nothing is set, have seen someone with a university medal in pure mathematics from usyd work at an IB and then do med. As a 17 year old, making career choices is super tough.

 

[Paradoxica]

Essentially same amount of pay to what?

Do what you're interested in - if you're in the top of virtually ANY field, there is plenty of cash. Also nothing is set, have seen someone with a university medal in pure mathematics from usyd work at an IB and then do med. As a 17 year old, making career choices is super tough.

Saving people looks boring to me. That is something I will not change.

I want the things I do to have no practical consequences. Hence, pure mathematics.

 

[RishBonjour99]

Saving people looks boring to me. That is something I will not change.

I want the things I do to have no practical consequences. Hence, pure mathematics.

Precisely what I said - do what interests you. Pure maths should be good.

But now to my question - essentially the same pay to what?

 

[Paradoxica]

Precisely what I said - do what interests you. Pure maths should be good.

But now to my question - essentially the same pay to what?

software jobs, especially the higher end ones

 

[InteGrand]

Saving people looks boring to me. That is something I will not change.

I want the things I do to have no practical consequences. Hence, pure mathematics.

Well you don't know it won't have no practical applications – a lot of areas of pure maths from the past were considered to be forever 'useless', but are now used heavily in our lives, e.g. prime numbers for encryption etc. Do you actually want the things you do to have no practical application, or do you simply not care whether they turn out to have applications or not?