Electrical Engineering Vs Juris Doctor (2 Viewers)

[pouyaneaski]

Hello guys, I am a graduate electrical engineer from UTS and currently working at Toshiba International Corporation. I have already got an offer from UTS to study Juris Doctor. My plan is to get into Patent or IP legal field that is sort of related to my engineering degree as well. I always wanted to be a lawyer and found out that Patent law or IP (Technology related) is a legal field that doesn't waste my engineering degree. I enjoy law and its not boring for me at all. My plan is to work full time and study part time so by the time that I am graduated from my JD, I have a decent amount of experience in industry that can help me to get into Patent or related legal field. My concerns is does financially worth it to study another 3 years (Full-time) and pay almost $90,000AUD?! I mean do Patent lawyers get paid well?! Is it possible to work individually after a few years?! Is it a misunderstanding that lawyers are well paid or not?! I am currently doing some commercial stuff for the company that is also related to legal issues in terms of contracts etc.

 

[turntaker]

You will probably get better answers by posting this on whirlpool.

 

[jack2230]

Have you tried applying to USYD/UNSW's JD program?

 

[pouyaneaski]

I have posted it on Whirlpool but i don't really know how people can see it. I mean wrote it in the private message but im not sure whether people can see it or not

 

[pouyaneaski]

No I haven't yet. I might do it for the next semester. I know where you study law matters but more importantly is how your grades are I assume. Isn't it?

 

[jack2230]

The problem is law is not in a great position at the moment so if you can get into USYD/UNSW it is only going to improve your cause but yes at the end of the day your grades, extra curriculars and cultural fit to the firm will be more important. Also, since you are studying a JD with the likely scenario of paying full fees it is important you have a decent plan as to what you will utilise your degree for otherwise you are burning a lot of money, time and energy without any clear goals. Law is a hard and challenging degree which utilities different methods of learning/thinking to what you are used to coming from engineering. If you want to work in intellectual property, great, this is a good goal to work towards and provides some direction. If you are gunning for top tier firms then a degree from UNSW/USYD will serve you slightly better since these firms tend to prefer graduates from GO8 universities although many UTS grads have found their way into these firms. The environment in these firms is intense and not for everyone however the pay is on the higher scale allowing you to pay off that significant debt quicker. If you are leaning towards a mid-tier firm or anywhere else they will generally be less picky and focus on your grades, extra curriculars and personality. This is also a viable career path although keep in mind the salaries here won't be as good starting off and your earning potential may be less. Just realize that many lawyers in these environments are on fairly average salaries considering all the hype surrounding law and this will make paying off your HECS which could well be 100k (90k JD + anything left from your previous course) more of a burden, combined with Sydney housing costs etc. creating a more challenging environment.

 

[Nailgun]

Hello guys, I am a graduate electrical engineer from UTS and currently working at Toshiba International Corporation. I have already got an offer from UTS to study Juris Doctor. My plan is to get into Patent or IP legal field that is sort of related to my engineering degree as well. I always wanted to be a lawyer and found out that Patent law or IP (Technology related) is a legal field that doesn't waste my engineering degree. I enjoy law and its not boring for me at all. My plan is to work full time and study part time so by the time that I am graduated from my JD, I have a decent amount of experience in industry that can help me to get into Patent or related legal field. My concerns is does financially worth it to study another 3 years (Full-time) and pay almost $90,000AUD?! I mean do Patent lawyers get paid well?! Is it possible to work individually after a few years?! Is it a misunderstanding that lawyers are well paid or not?! I am currently doing some commercial stuff for the company that is also related to legal issues in terms of contracts etc.

In terms of going solo practice, this is possible but the main obstacle you would face is networking and getting clients through the door. Patent law draws in big bucks by acting for big clients. Opening a solo practice after a couple of years is probably a bit unrealistic in terms of time-frame though.

Just my 2c

 

[pouyaneaski]

So do you suggest me to try my best to get into the top tier law companies in order to secure my future and not worrying about my dept etc?!

 

[pouyaneaski]

My goal in to work full-time in the field of electrical engineering and have enough experience by the time that i am graduated from my JD course. Cause if you look at the job advertisements for Patent lawyers, they need someone with industrial experience as well. I have already got the offer, my plan is to study one year at UTS and if I could get D average then I can go to USYD. otherwise, I wont be bothered transferring to other Uni as you have also mentioned, finding a job depends on variety of factors and I reckon by the time I am graduated from my JD I will be 28,29 and an employee will not really consider where I have been studying but what I know and how I can sell myself to them. Agree?!

 

[jack2230]

At the end of the day, do whatever you are passionate about and think will work best for your circumstances. You would probably be able to find a job of some sorts in the field if you maintain good grades and have a bit of experience. The debt is something to consider but not necessarily a deal breaker, just so long as you understand what you are getting into. Maybe ask UTS if they can tell you anymore.

 

[Nailgun]

My goal in to work full-time in the field of electrical engineering and have enough experience by the time that i am graduated from my JD course. Cause if you look at the job advertisements for Patent lawyers, they need someone with industrial experience as well. I have already got the offer, my plan is to study one year at UTS and if I could get D average then I can go to USYD. otherwise, I wont be bothered transferring to other Uni as you have also mentioned, finding a job depends on variety of factors and I reckon by the time I am graduated from my JD I will be 28,29 and an employee will not really consider where I have been studying but what I know and how I can sell myself to them. Agree?!

imo the easiest path for you would be aim for an in-house position, within a company rather than a position at an actual law firm
if you do the jd, then you'd have the requisite education - the only issue is in-house counsel usually recruits from law firms (typically people who are 3-4 years PQE), but if you can get your foot in the door somehow (contacts, networking, magic) then that would an ideal position, in terms that you will have significant interaction with both the electrical engineering and the law side of things with reasonable hours and fairly good pay. However it is true that in-house tends to lack as much potential to grow professionally, and financially is a lot more limited considering the long term

 

[pouyaneaski]

Do you know the average salary of someone who works in-house?! Also can you please tell me the difference between a patent lawyer and a patent attorney?! Thanks mate

 

[pouyaneaski]

Thanks a lot mate

 

[Nailgun]

https://www1.hays.com.au/salary/output/pdf2015/HaysSalaryGuide_2015-AU_legal.pdf

pg 26 has info on inhouse counsel
take a look through it though, it's pretty useful for getting a feel for the industry in general

 

[Nailgun]

not 100% sure on the patent lawyer vs patent attorney, but i fairly certain that they mean the same thing

 

[jack2230]

Patent attorney is slightly different in Australia, UTS has an entire Masters degree on the subject with links to more information. I believe a patent attorney doesn't actually require a law degree however many lawyers with law degrees in top firms specialist to become intellectual property lawyers.

http://www.uts.edu.au/future-studen...rofessional-recognition/intellectual-property

 

[treescape]

Do you know the average salary of someone who works in-house?! Also can you please tell me the difference between a patent lawyer and a patent attorney?! Thanks mate

As I understand it, a patent lawyer is a convenient way to refer to a lawyer who works in the patent law field (and so can provide legal advice on issues). A patent attorney isn't a lawyer, but works in the patent field (and so doesn't provide legal advice).

A lot of their work probably crosses over.

 

[neo o]

Patent law is a fairly specialised field and may not have the same problems as the wider legal market. Do you have any friends in recruiting who could give you an idea on what the market for patent lawyers is like?

 

[pouyaneaski]

Cheers very helpful

 

[pouyaneaski]

Thanks heaps