Why must English count towards your ATAR? (1 Viewer)

[liammills1]

English stupidly has to count for at least 2 units of 10 for your final ATAR mark which obviously means it plays a considerable role. No other subject does this and it means the system is favoured towards those who are talented in bullshitting. Please check it out and sign. It takes 10 seconds.

https://www.change.org/p/english-sh...ents_action_panel_wrapper&utm_medium=copylink

English is a compulsory subject not just for the HSC but as at least 2 of the 10 units that count towards the final ATAR. It is a system that is subjectively biased towards certain students. English is denoted as compulsory in order to speak and develop the language - however the strange syllabus emphasizes understanding 'onomatopoeia' and motifs in texts. Knowing 'onomatopoeia' (the literal form of a sound) is definitely no more important than the content covered in the General Mathematics course, so if English is compulsory then to what point is Mathematics not compulsory also? It is a major flaw in the education system and must be reconsidered.

Picture a student gets a Band 6 in Modern, Chemistry, Physics and 4 unit Math but a Band 3 in English although they are completely satisfactory at speaking the language. Why then should their ATAR be dragged down?

 

[BandSixFix]

"I'm bad at English so lets not make it compulsory" is all I'm getting from this?

 

[BLIT2014]

As an English speaking country, it makes sense that we have a compulsory course that is based around our national language.

 

[liammills1]

I'm saying its a system to measure the intelligence of kids and the only reason English is compulsory is to make sure said kid can speak the language. I'm not saying it shouldn't be compulsory but just it shouldn't count towards your actual atar because really the syllabus challenges kids to completely different skills than speaking the language.

Imagine someone gets a band 6 in modern history, chem, physics and 4u math but then band 3 in English although they are completely satisfactory at speaking the language. Why then should their atar be dragged down?

 

[Simorgh]

It counts towards your ATAR because its just happens to be a compulsory subject. Simple as that.

Why would they make it compulsory and yet not make it count towards your ATAR, regardless of how well you do in English? They aren't stupid.

 

[redjnr]

iirc it's because the UAC need a common subject to be the basis of scaling.
Might be completely wrong though

 

[Simorgh]

iirc it's because the UAC need a common subject to be the basis of scaling.
Might be completely wrong though

Yeah I forgot about this. I have heard about this many times before and yeah it makes sense.

 

[Shadowdude]

English stupidly has to count for at least 2 units of 10 for your final ATAR mark which obvious means it plays a considerable role. No other subject does this and it means the system is favoured towards those who are talented in bullshitting so hit this up just to try get some attention to it. Please check it out and sign. It takes 10 seconds.

https://www.change.org/p/english-sh...ents_action_panel_wrapper&utm_medium=copylink

awkward moment when someone bags out compulsory english and can't even grammar

"English stupidly has to count for at least 2 units of 10 for your final ATAR mark which obvious means it plays a considerable role."

 

[InteGrand]

iirc it's because the UAC need a common subject to be the basis of scaling.
Might be completely wrong though

Yeah I forgot about this. I have heard about this many times before and yeah it makes sense.

This would only explain why a certain common subject must count to the ATAR. It doesn't explain why English must count to the ATAR.

 

[jathu123]

https://www.change.org/p/english-sh...s_show_components_action_panel_wrapper-no_msg

 

[Soulful]

This would only explain why a certain common subject must count to the ATAR. It doesn't explain why English must count to the ATAR.

It would make the most sense for English to be the basis of scaling imo. With maths, you'll almost certainly have people getting 100% and those getting close to 0%, stuffing up the scaling completely. Not the case with English.

The alternate would be to have an actual scaling test (as they have in Canberra) which tests basically every subject ever taught in HS (but not on knowledge, more on aptitude). Not sure if I would have preferred that to doing adv english.

 

[Zoinked]

I hate and did terribly in English but I think it makes sense for it to be compulsory given we are in an english speaking country. Also, plenty of people have terrible english and analytical writing skills which need development.

 

[MouseTop]

This has been my exact question for the past year. I don't think English in it's current state should be compulsory for the HSC. I think instead a new subject, let's call it 'Prep', should be created which has two parts to it:

• Life Skills
• Parts of the Current English Syllabus

I think Life Skills should consist of things like: tax returns, buying a house, mortgages, tax, basic politics - things that you need to know in life. The other parts of English that I refer to are: essays and speech. I wholeheartedly believe poem and novel analysis should not be compulsory. There's a simple reason as to why; I'm never going to use it in life. In the past two years I know that I haven't read any book which I've analysed other than those which were part of the syllabus.

 

[BandSixFix]

This has been my exact question for the past year. I don't think English in it's current state should be compulsory for the HSC. I think instead a new subject, let's call it 'Prep', should be created which has two parts to it:

• Life Skills
• Parts of the Current English Syllabus

I think Life Skills should consist of things like: tax returns, buying a house, mortgages, tax, basic politics - things that you need to know in life. The other parts of English that I refer to are: essays and speech. I wholeheartedly believe poem and novel analysis should not be compulsory. There's a simple reason as to why; I'm never going to use it in life. In the past two years I know that I haven't read any book which I've analysed other than those which were part of the syllabus.

You can learn these yourself - school was never intended to teach these things. Ie. they are not academic.

There's no point sending children out into the world when they cannot understand the integrity of what they do in life. Ie. the context, motives, languages etc. I agree that English right now could be revised to include an alternative assessment regime, but its content is relatively fine. Many students think that learning Shakespeare won't be relavent, or watching an old film or reading an old book won't help them in life. But it's the skills you gain from learning how to engage in these texts that allow you increase your intellect.

Students need to learn the way words can be used to articulte certain perspectives, the way a person's opinion can be interpreted in a myriad of ways and ultimately how whatever you do derives some sort of meaning. It's like, who cares if the author intended to convey the dystopic milieu of his epoch by characterising the societal foundations of his text as an authorrotative regime? Wow big deal right? No. It how we can come to this conclusion, the way we can analyse and understand the way words can be used in such a way to convey this. There's no point in going into the real world without understanding what words mean. Words are all we see, and they always pertain to distintive meanings.

 

[MouseTop]

You can learn these yourself - school was never intended to teach these things. Ie. they are not academic.

There's no point sending children out into the world when they cannot understand the integrity of what they do in life. Ie. the context, motives, languages etc. I agree that English right now could be revised to include an alternative assessment regime, but its content is relatively fine. Many students think that learning Shakespeare won't be relavent, or watching an old film or reading an old book won't help them in life. But it's the skills you gain from learning how to engage in these texts that allow you increase your intellect.

Students need to learn the way words can be used to articulte certain perspectives, the way a person's opinion can be interpreted in a myriad of ways and ultimately how whatever you do derives some sort of meaning. It's like, who cares if the author intended to convey the dystopic milieu of his epoch by characterising the societal foundations of his text as an authorrotative regime? Wow big deal right? No. It how we can come to this conclusion, the way we can analyse and understand the way words can be used in such a way to convey this. There's no point in going into the real world without understanding what words mean. Words are all we see, and they always pertain to distintive meanings.

Wow, well that's a good point. I completely agree with it. But, I think we can reach a middle ground in which the current English syllabus should be compulsory to complete your HSC and you must pass with a satisfactory mark (i.e. 60%) but it should not count toward your ATAR. So my points are:

• English should be compulsory (~60% pass mark)
• Shouldn't count towards ATAR

 

[Soulful]

This has been my exact question for the past year. I don't think English in it's current state should be compulsory for the HSC. I think instead a new subject, let's call it 'Prep', should be created which has two parts to it:

• Life Skills
• Parts of the Current English Syllabus

I think Life Skills should consist of things like: tax returns, buying a house, mortgages, tax, basic politics - things that you need to know in life. The other parts of English that I refer to are: essays and speech. I wholeheartedly believe poem and novel analysis should not be compulsory. There's a simple reason as to why; I'm never going to use it in life. In the past two years I know that I haven't read any book which I've analysed other than those which were part of the syllabus.

Wow, well that's a good point. I completely agree with it. But, I think we can reach a middle ground in which the current English syllabus should be compulsory to complete your HSC and you must pass with a satisfactory mark (i.e. 60%) but it should not count toward your ATAR. So my points are:

• English should be compulsory (~60% pass mark)
• Shouldn't count towards ATAR

Good ideas, but it will cause a complete overhaul of the current HSC system. if English was compulsory but didn't count, scaling would change drastically (since currently all scaling comes from how students did in paper 1). People wouldn't take it seriously if it didn't count, and assuming that the majority of these people are the maths science types, the scaling of maths and science would fall quite a bit. English has to count, or otherwise you need to find another subject to base scaling off. I do see merit in just making paper 1 compulsory and English only counting 1 unit though

 

[DatAtarLyfe]

You can learn these yourself - school was never intended to teach these things. Ie. they are not academic.

There's no point sending children out into the world when they cannot understand the integrity of what they do in life. Ie. the context, motives, languages etc. I agree that English right now could be revised to include an alternative assessment regime, but its content is relatively fine. Many students think that learning Shakespeare won't be relavent, or watching an old film or reading an old book won't help them in life. But it's the skills you gain from learning how to engage in these texts that allow you increase your intellect.

Students need to learn the way words can be used to articulte certain perspectives, the way a person's opinion can be interpreted in a myriad of ways and ultimately how whatever you do derives some sort of meaning. It's like, who cares if the author intended to convey the dystopic milieu of his epoch by characterising the societal foundations of his text as an authorrotative regime? Wow big deal right? No. It how we can come to this conclusion, the way we can analyse and understand the way words can be used in such a way to convey this. There's no point in going into the real world without understanding what words mean. Words are all we see, and they always pertain to distintive meanings.

Lol you basically recounted part of my thesis for brave new world

 

[BandSixFix]

Lol you basically recounted part of my thesis for brave new world

haha I just made that up on the spot, we haven't finished the book in our class

 

[Nailgun]

HSC: 2018

ur like twelve

you haven't experienced enough english to hate it properly lel

 

[Nailgun]

This has been my exact question for the past year. I don't think English in it's current state should be compulsory for the HSC. I think instead a new subject, let's call it 'Prep', should be created which has two parts to it:

• Life Skills
• Parts of the Current English Syllabus

I think Life Skills should consist of things like: tax returns, buying a house, mortgages, tax, basic politics - things that you need to know in life. The other parts of English that I refer to are: essays and speech. I wholeheartedly believe poem and novel analysis should not be compulsory. There's a simple reason as to why; I'm never going to use it in life. In the past two years I know that I haven't read any book which I've analysed other than those which were part of the syllabus.

you probably have, just informally and in your head

once you get past the 'sophisticated' language, and semi-restrictive conventions on essay writing, english is actually a pretty intuitive subject

it's basically what you think about this, in relation to this