Difference between FULL selective and PARTIAL selective school? (1 Viewer)

[gobear]

Will sending my kid for year 7 for the year after....and I know there are like 17 full selective and 25 partial selective in NSW and I am wondering what is the difference between the partial and fully selective?
Surely will be going for selective and not full government and not private school but just wondering what is the difference and which is better for my kid?
And do I choose 3 or 4 preference school? Is it 4 as far as I recall?
And what happens in the case of if none of them accepts the offer for my kid?
Do I get the chance to choose again? or?
Thanks in advance

 

[idkkdi]

Will sending my kid for year 7 for the year after....and I know there are like 17 full selective and 25 partial selective in NSW and I am wondering what is the difference between the partial and fully selective?
Surely will be going for selective and not full government and not private school but just wondering what is the difference and which is better for my kid?
And do I choose 3 or 4 preference school? Is it 4 as far as I recall?
And what happens in the case of if none of them accepts the offer for my kid?
Do I get the chance to choose again? or?
Thanks in advance

Full selective has much higher rankings and academic scores.

If none of them accepts, i.e. your kid doesn't score high enough to beat the entry mark for any of the 4, your kid will either have to be sent by you to a catholic/private or go to a local comprehensive.

 

[SplashJuice]

Fully selective are better in my opinion because there's no war "Selective vs Mainstream" which is the case in a partial selective. They rank higher too however some partial selective rank fairly well such as Sefton High School.

If none of them accept then; then you unfortunately don't get in, private or a comprehensive school is the next option. You may reapply throughout years 7-11 for another chance.

 

[gobear]

Thanks folks

Sorry comprehensive is government school, right?

And when you say mainstream, can you elaborate what it means by that?? I actually went to a government school many years ago, so that is why I am not too familar with full selective vs partial, though I want him to go FULL. My 2nd choice is actually partial selective given its close to my home, so not sure if this is good too.

I also saw some of the availability spaces (for next year), some selective have like 30 spaces, while some has 120 , 150 etc. does the more spaces available mean the chance of getting in will be higher?

And also, as he is in year 5, does the result actually count from beginning of year 5 till he does the test next year in March for the score? And therefore he needs to do well in school? Because so far, his results are just average, like just barely passed....with B and C grade. Not sure if it is good enough if he wants to go for FULL selective?

 

[SplashJuice]

Thanks folks

Sorry comprehensive is government school, right?

And when you say mainstream, can you elaborate what it means by that?? I actually went to a government school many years ago, so that is why I am not too familar with full selective vs partial, though I want him to go FULL. My 2nd choice is actually partial selective given its close to my home, so not sure if this is good too.

I also saw some of the availability spaces (for next year), some selective have like 30 spaces, while some has 120 , 150 etc. does the more spaces available mean the chance of getting in will be higher?

And also, as he is in year 5, does the result actually count from beginning of year 5 till he does the test next year in March for the score? And therefore he needs to do well in school? Because so far, his results are just average, like just barely passed....with B and C grade. Not sure if it is good enough if he wants to go for FULL selective?

Mainstream is the non selective cohort of a partial selective school. And yes, a comprehensive school is a government school.

For availability of spaces, not necessarily. Usually when there is a huge space there is huge demand, a partial selective school has less demand hence the less amount of spaces.

And yes, big mistake of me in Year 5, make sure to tell your kid to study because SCHOOL marks count towards your selective mark. I was too busy horsing around and having the teacher hate me I ended up getting 50/100 for school marks but ended up acing the actual exam. I missed out on Sydney Boys by two marks which I still regret to this day, I could have easily prevented that if I didn't screw up my school marks and missed out a whole heck of an opportunity. So please, tell your kid to be aware that school marks do go towards the final selective score.

 

[gobear]

Mainstream is the non selective cohort of a partial selective school. And yes, a comprehensive school is a government school.

For availability of spaces, not necessarily. Usually when there is a huge space there is huge demand, a partial selective school has less demand hence the less amount of spaces.

And yes, big mistake of me in Year 5, make sure to tell your kid to study because SCHOOL marks count towards your selective mark. I was too busy horsing around and having the teacher hate me I ended up getting 50/100 for school marks but ended up acing the actual exam. I missed out on Sydney Boys by two marks which I still regret to this day, I could have easily prevented that if I didn't screw up my school marks and missed out a whole heck of an opportunity. So please, tell your kid to be aware that school marks do go towards the final selective score.

I am sorry to hear that but we learn to move on life huh? But i really didn't think the teacher would be so mean to give you 50/100 just for hating you? Isn't that discriminating? Thanks for your tip and answer, I will surely tell him because its also one of your school that he wants to go as well as the Nth Syd boy HS, I guess both are very hard to get into huh?

 

[Kyufruit]

Will sending my kid for year 7 for the year after....and I know there are like 17 full selective and 25 partial selective in NSW and I am wondering what is the difference between the partial and fully selective?
Surely will be going for selective and not full government and not private school but just wondering what is the difference and which is better for my kid?
And do I choose 3 or 4 preference school? Is it 4 as far as I recall?
And what happens in the case of if none of them accepts the offer for my kid?
Do I get the chance to choose again? or?
Thanks in advance

I go to a partially selective school, do not send your kid there.

As SplashJuice mentioned, the “selective vs mainstream” is a big problem, and it took my grade 5 years to finally settle down and doesn’t like the selective students and vice verse (after we al became seniors and were mixed in classes, so we had no choice but to get along)

i think selective Is better because in partial, in your hsc years you wont be a selective student anymore, you’ll be mixed with everyone else.

 

[quickoats]

Thanks folks

Sorry comprehensive is government school, right?

And when you say mainstream, can you elaborate what it means by that?? I actually went to a government school many years ago, so that is why I am not too familar with full selective vs partial, though I want him to go FULL. My 2nd choice is actually partial selective given its close to my home, so not sure if this is good too.

I also saw some of the availability spaces (for next year), some selective have like 30 spaces, while some has 120 , 150 etc. does the more spaces available mean the chance of getting in will be higher?

And also, as he is in year 5, does the result actually count from beginning of year 5 till he does the test next year in March for the score? And therefore he needs to do well in school? Because so far, his results are just average, like just barely passed....with B and C grade. Not sure if it is good enough if he wants to go for FULL selective?

If your son goes to a private school, then there are no school marks - just the score you get on the exam day. If it's a public school, then school marks count - I'm not too sure how far back they look but definitely year 6 marks.

The higher the selective entrance score, the 'lower the chance' of getting in. The number of spots has no bearing on the chance of getting in, as some schools chose to have larger grades (150-180) whereas some have smaller grades, and some partial schools have only 1 class of 30.

What region do you live in? There are some good government schools around, so maybe consider giving them an application too. Also consider travel as realistically, going to a slightly 'better' school won't have a big impact on ATAR, whereas going to a school closer to home will be a much more comfortable experience.

Re: partially selective, the selective stream and the community streams merge in year 11 and 12. There is nothing wrong with this - it allows the school to offer a larger range of subjects. While I think it's a good idea that classes are mixed (so it fosters a cooperative and harmonious environment), some people may be opposed to it. Nevertheless, the selective stream tends to 'self select' into certain subjects e.g. 3-4 unit maths, but there's nothing stopping (and nothing wrong with) 'mainstream' students entering such classes as well.

 

[idkkdi]

I am sorry to hear that but we learn to move on life huh? But i really didn't think the teacher would be so mean to give you 50/100 just for hating you? Isn't that discriminating? Thanks for your tip and answer, I will surely tell him because its also one of your school that he wants to go as well as the Nth Syd boy HS, I guess both are very hard to get into huh?

I'm going to be honest with you. His grades right now won't cut it for north sydney boys if he is getting Bs and Cs. Cut off for North Sydney is at 231 right now, and that's into reserve zone where you do not want to be, to be safe, 240 is needed. This equates to approximately 80% across the selective papers which is distinction or higher in ICAS English and Maths, and mostly A range, maybe B's if the primary school ranks high (not equal tests to the selective test by any means, but approximate comparisons).

However there is hope. Your son should have about another half a year before the selective test. Given that he does indeed have the ability to make selective, well-aimed and plentiful prep would get him in.
Also keep in mind that partial selective schools often drop into the 180s range from entry scores. That's about 60% on the actual test paper, which should be doable for anyone if they try.

Now for 240+ onwards in selective, there's two main problems:
1. Maturity/discipline
2. Intelligence
Either can be compensated by the other. If either are lacking, some forcing needs to be done to study more.

50/100 is a totally fair school mark for most students it is given to. The school mark is meant to emulate what the student can score on the actual test, and many do not pass.

For reference to cutoffs for schools (which are pretty consistent), refer to https://www.north-shore.com.au/blog/selective-cutoffs-2020/. Add 5 points on for direct entry. These marks are for the reserves who got in after people who had direct entry rejected the offer.

Personally, I remember that I had no semblance of a direct and logical train of thought which is required to do selective questions quickly and well. Training a kid to do something results in them forgetting the method LOL.
Only way to attack the selective tests well imo is to 1. know the prerequisite knowledge (can be understood from looking at papers), 2. a crap tonne of experience from getting things wrong over and over again and understanding why you got it wrong. (at some point you just get tired of getting it wrong). 3. A fair bit of testing technique (which can come from practice) or be taught. e.g. draw out the alphabet, learn to eliminate improbable answers, know how to test the multiple choice answers. 4. The kid should also be personally invested into making it into a selective school, but not too worried (causes stress and choking on exam day).
*Just one more thing. The kid's vocabulary needs to be consciously built, or else you get screwed over in GA, writing and English which is a huge yikes.


As for the travel issue, I disagree with quickoats. While it does not ensure as comfortable an experience, spending a crap tonne of time travelling is not without its benefits.
1. Time management skills (you don't have as much time to waste when you get home).
2. The kid has to travel home at a reasonable time and thus doesn't have as much time to do dodgy stuff, if he is likely to stray in that direction.

 

[SplashJuice]

I'm going to be honest with you. His grades right now won't cut it for north sydney boys if he is getting Bs and Cs. Cut off for North Sydney is at 231 right now, and that's into reserve zone where you do not want to be, to be safe, 240 is needed. This equates to approximately 80% across the selective papers which is distinction or higher in ICAS English and Maths, and mostly A range, maybe B's if the primary school ranks high (not equal tests to the selective test by any means, but approximate comparisons).

However there is hope. Your son should have about another half a year before the selective test. Given that he does indeed have the ability to make selective, well-aimed and plentiful prep would get him in.
Also keep in mind that partial selective schools often drop into the 180s range from entry scores. That's about 60% on the actual test paper, which should be doable for anyone if they try.

Now for 240+ onwards in selective, there's two main problems:
1. Maturity/discipline
2. Intelligence
Either can be compensated by the other. If either are lacking, some forcing needs to be done to study more.

50/100 is a totally fair school mark for most students it is given to. The school mark is meant to emulate what the student can score on the actual test, and many do not pass.

For reference to cutoffs for schools (which are pretty consistent), refer to https://www.north-shore.com.au/blog/selective-cutoffs-2020/. Add 5 points on for direct entry. These marks are for the reserves who got in after people who had direct entry rejected the offer.

Personally, I remember that I had no semblance of a direct and logical train of thought which is required to do selective questions quickly and well. Training a kid to do something results in them forgetting the method LOL.
Only way to attack the selective tests well imo is to 1. know the prerequisite knowledge (can be understood from looking at papers), 2. a crap tonne of experience from getting things wrong over and over again and understanding why you got it wrong. (at some point you just get tired of getting it wrong). 3. A fair bit of testing technique (which can come from practice) or be taught. e.g. draw out the alphabet, learn to eliminate improbable answers, know how to test the multiple choice answers. 4. The kid should also be personally invested into making it into a selective school, but not too worried (causes stress and choking on exam day).
*Just one more thing. The kid's vocabulary needs to be consciously built, or else you get screwed over in GA, writing and English which is a huge yikes.


As for the travel issue, I disagree with quickoats. While it does not ensure as comfortable an experience, spending a crap tonne of time travelling is not without its benefits.
1. Time management skills (you don't have as much time to waste when you get home).
2. The kid has to travel home at a reasonable time and thus doesn't have as much time to do dodgy stuff, if he is likely to stray in that direction.

Yeah not sure how i got 50/100 in school marks, I reckon I could have gotten 240 back in the day if I got 80/100 just like every other kid in the class. Not to mention a lot of those 80/100 kids didn't even get past 220 in selective score.

 

[idkkdi]

Yeah not sure how i got 50/100 in school marks, I reckon I could have gotten 240 back in the day if I got 80/100 just like every other kid in the class. Not to mention a lot of those 80/100 kids didn't even get past 220 in selective score.

You must have been *special* ^^^^. Actually, doesn't add up, did you get 50 for both subjects or one? If it's only for one you would have gotten 215 + 30/2 ~ 230

 

[gobear]

Thank you for your answer
Didn't expect so many after i came back from dinner and bath and taking care of my kid!
And to answer your question, we live in Linfield....and it is a public school, not private.........and so chatwood HS was one of the choice we considered as the distance is close to where we live but looks like from what you said here, the chance is pretty slim given my child's score is pretty low and not recommended for PS school. But yeah, he needs to improve since there's like probably a year or so to get a good score.


So.......as quickoats suggest to give application for government, can I apply at the same time as with selective high school? I know you need to submit 3 of them, but I thought in case one fails (or all 3) , I can still choose the government school afterwards? And is there a deadlien for it? Because honestly, I haven't done much looking in this area but rather the selective school. I guess I have to also have a plan B and be realistic in case he doesn't do well....
And if we were to choose the goverment school, how can i see which ones are good in Sydney or in my area?

 

[Zacharia Villegas]

I used to go Chatswood High(was my 3rd/4th preference?) in the selective stream, reading some of these comments, I didn't really feel a selective vs mainstream(there was also a gifted and talented class.) I was able to transfer into a fully selective school and it's incredibly different environment which can either motivate or demotivate people.
I believe the nearest schools are Chatswood or Killara, maybe check out the catchments?
Anyways, good luck!!

 

[quickoats]

So.......as quickoats suggest to give application for government, can I apply at the same time as with selective high school? I know you need to submit 3 of them, but I thought in case one fails (or all 3) , I can still choose the government school afterwards? And is there a deadlien for it? Because honestly, I haven't done much looking in this area but rather the selective school. I guess I have to also have a plan B and be realistic in case he doesn't do well....
And if we were to choose the goverment school, how can i see which ones are good in Sydney or in my area?

You can apply to 3-4 selective schools in the one application. You rank your top preferences and they go down the list. If your score is good enough for school 1, then they accept you into school 1. For example if you apply 1. Chatswood 2. James Ruse 3. Nth Sydney Boys, and your son scores high enough for all 3 schools, they will accept him into Chatswood even though the cutoffs for JR and NSB are higher.

Going to a government school depends on the catchment you live in. Basically your son will go to your 'local' high school - this depends on your address. Part of Lindfield falls under Chatswood High, and the other part falls under Killara High. Both schools are very good.

I used to go Chatswood High(was my 3rd/4th preference?) in the selective stream, reading some of these comments, I didn't really feel a selective vs mainstream(there was also a gifted and talented class.) I was able to transfer into a fully selective school and it's incredibly different environment which can either motivate or demotivate people.

The selective vs. community is really dependent on the school culture. Some schools you definitely see it whereas some you won't.

There is also the idea of "upgrading" schools where people try to transfer into a "higher ranked" school. Sometimes this isn't a good idea as it can be harder to make new friends, and it can be difficult adjusting to a higher pressure environment. Personally, I went to a 'lower ranked' selective school and enjoyed myself a lot. The lesser focus on ATAR allowed me to explore my interests and do subjects that would not have been offered at 'higher' schools as they do not scale well.

Since you live in a good area with great public schools nearby (Killara, Chatswood), within decent proximity of good selective schools (North Sydney Boys, Normanhurst, Chatswood), whatever the outcome of the selective exam, your son will be okay

 

[idkkdi]

If I don't mind asking around what rank was your school when you sat your HSC?

he was in top 30

 

[exojun]

i know alot of people have replied to this thread already but i just wanted to add some thoughts. I am currently a year 12 student at a TOP ranked selective school, i have been here since day 1 in year 7 and it has probably had one of the biggest impacts on my secondary school learning experience (in a very positive way). My selective school result was 251.30

My own path before the selective test was admittedly attending weekly tutoring sessions to practise in mock selective exams. This was in conjuncture with classes in writing, english, maths, GA (it was a package course, im not sure if they still do things like this - its been a while since i've looked into the selective scene). I was going to an OC school at the time, and most of my friends at tutor were OC students as well. Nearly all of us now go to selective schools, primarily Sydney Tech, Sydney Boys, Sydney girls, North Sydney Girls, North Sydney Boy and James Ruse. This said you DEFINITELY do not need to attend tutoring in order to do well in the test, there are many bright students who go in for the first time and end up with amazing results. However, you have mentioned Nth Syd Boys and most of my friends there did attend tutoring before their exam.

I think most people have covered already the difference between mainstream, partially selective and selective. Although i have never been to a mainstream or partially selective high school, i personally do not think the teaching at the schools are extremely different. What changes between the schools is the student's attitude to learning. We have had teacher's transfer to positions at our school from low funded government high school's and they have been extremely successful in their teaching, if you ask them what the biggest difference is between the schools the answer is usually "the students". There have been some people who have commented about the stress of going to a selective school, and yes this exists but it becomes an inherent part of the selective experience. However, most of my friends and myself actually strive within this environment. There is a constant drive to better yourself, and to aim higher. In the last 6 years of my high school experience, i have been quite fortunate to have been given opportunities that most government schools would not have been able to provide me. In many ways it is an enriched learning experience.

As for your son, he still has time. With the next couple months before the exam some solid preparation will give him the leverage he needs to do well both at school and in the exam. If he isn't selected this next year based on his results then he still has the opportunity to transfer in later years. Please do be mindful that there is VERY HIGH demand to transfer to top ranked school. Your son would have needed to maintain good marks and ranks at his current high school alongside participate in extracurriculars (preferably be good at them as well) to make his application stand out against others. For the student it is better to transfer in junior year (8-10) if possible (i.e if there are vacancies) as the older you get, the pressure to perform well increases and there are cases of students falling behind due to the unforeseen pace and workload. This is primarily because by year 11, the majority of the students at top ranked selective schools would be doing tutoring and are ahead of school (which is going through the syllabus pretty quickly).

I wish your son much luck and success in his exams next year!

 

[idkkdi]

i know alot of people have replied to this thread already but i just wanted to add some thoughts. I am currently a year 12 student at a TOP ranked selective school, i have been here since day 1 in year 7 and it has probably had one of the biggest impacts on my secondary school learning experience (in a very positive way). My selective school result was 251.30

My own path before the selective test was admittedly attending weekly tutoring sessions to practise in mock selective exams. This was in conjuncture with classes in writing, english, maths, GA (it was a package course, im not sure if they still do things like this - its been a while since i've looked into the selective scene). I was going to an OC school at the time, and most of my friends at tutor were OC students as well. Nearly all of us now go to selective schools, primarily Sydney Tech, Sydney Boys, Sydney girls, North Sydney Girls, North Sydney Boy and James Ruse. This said you DEFINITELY do not need to attend tutoring in order to do well in the test, there are many bright students who go in for the first time and end up with amazing results. However, you have mentioned Nth Syd Boys and most of my friends there did attend tutoring before their exam.

I think most people have covered already the difference between mainstream, partially selective and selective. Although i have never been to a mainstream or partially selective high school, i personally do not think the teaching at the schools are extremely different. What changes between the schools is the student's attitude to learning. We have had teacher's transfer to positions at our school from low funded government high school's and they have been extremely successful in their teaching, if you ask them what the biggest difference is between the schools the answer is usually "the students". There have been some people who have commented about the stress of going to a selective school, and yes this exists but it becomes an inherent part of the selective experience. However, most of my friends and myself actually strive within this environment. There is a constant drive to better yourself, and to aim higher. In the last 6 years of my high school experience, i have been quite fortunate to have been given opportunities that most government schools would not have been able to provide me. In many ways it is an enriched learning experience.

As for your son, he still has time. With the next couple months before the exam some solid preparation will give him the leverage he needs to do well both at school and in the exam. If he isn't selected this next year based on his results then he still has the opportunity to transfer in later years. Please do be mindful that there is VERY HIGH demand to transfer to top ranked school. Your son would have needed to maintain good marks and ranks at his current high school alongside participate in extracurriculars (preferably be good at them as well) to make his application stand out against others. For the student it is better to transfer in junior year (8-10) if possible (i.e if there are vacancies) as the older you get, the pressure to perform well increases and there are cases of students falling behind due to the unforeseen pace and workload. This is primarily because by year 11, the majority of the students at top ranked selective schools would be doing tutoring and are ahead of school (which is going through the syllabus pretty quickly).

I wish your son much luck and success in his exams next year!

Nice flex, but ngl, I got a higher score .

 

[exojun]

Nice flex, but ngl, I got a higher score .

ahahah good job!

 

[schoolisverystressfull]

Will sending my kid for year 7 for the year after....and I know there are like 17 full selective and 25 partial selective in NSW and I am wondering what is the difference between the partial and fully selective?
Surely will be going for selective and not full government and not private school but just wondering what is the difference and which is better for my kid?
And do I choose 3 or 4 preference school? Is it 4 as far as I recall?
And what happens in the case of if none of them accepts the offer for my kid?
Do I get the chance to choose again? or?
Thanks in advance

As a person who went to a partially selective school, there is definitely a huge separation between the local kids and selective kids. Locals and selective kids hung out in separate groups except for a select few who hung out together. Most kids in local classes slacked off but there were a few who tried hard in the hopes of transferring. However, in selective classes half the kids mucked around in unimportant subjects like art history pe and geo but still got great marks.