Israel Palestine conflict (6 Viewers)

[stressedadfff]

Don't hear me as not condemning the attacks, I'm also not condoning the retaliation either by the other side. Nor sure which side you are referring to as having God and the other having the strongest military. Overall, I personally don't think either side has God on their side.

[Technically] I'm an evangelical myself, but I don't support Israel politically (nor Palestine for that matter), and have actually been to both Israel and the West Bank. (Some Christians, mainly dispensationalists from the US support Israel as they see prophecy filled in 'literal Israel' for the same reason that Christians voted for Trump - I would argue they misunderstand prophecy)

I do not agree that all political issues have religious roots but broadly ideological roots (which includes those religious motivated conflicts; but also secular/non-religious/atheistic ideaologies such as marxism or fascism).

The conflict is mainly political, religious tensions only play into the conflict, particular between Jews and Muslims. I do not agree that most issues have religious roots. This conflict does, and that is because the Jewish identity is wrapped up with a particular homeland. Especially Judaism and Islam in particular are socio-political religions (whereby the religion encompasses politics), where by certain readings of their text lead to the justification of military conquests. This conflict is mostly rooted in nationalistic movements (Zionism and Arab/Syrian nationalism).
with both movements having a distinct ethic and religious identities forming the key distinctives.

Since the first conflicts in the 1920s, there has just been increasing hostilities. Even reading on what lead to the current conflict, was itself one thing leading to another.

The problem with Hamas is that they share the same ideology as that of the Muslim Brotherhood (which is extremist) and (unsurprisingly), Hamas is actually affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood.

This is also one of the reasons I oppose both sides politically (as I mentioned in my earlier posts). Regarding the Palestinians, it's more about extremism vs secularism (Hamas vs Syria).

Hamas was formed twenty years after Israel decided to find a country that Jews can colonise since they were being persecuted. That’s self defence 100%. Without Israel hamas wouldn’t be existing.

 

[totally_screwed]

*don't.
I have a problem where I often make this kind of typo. Where I mean one thing but forget to put it in the negative when I type it. I've edited it to fix this typo. What I meant to say is that I don't think either side has God on their side. I've amended the original post.

thank you for clarifying, still ridiculous

I found that first part to be most ridiculous, but Jimmy summed it up pretty well. if you're still confused then I will elaborate

and yes God might not be on either side, we have no way to confirm that. but perhaps you're not understanding that "God is on our side" is an expression that people use when they're utterly helpless. it's a way to remain strong in the face of adversity, like when you're nervous before a job interview you might be standing outside the room telling yourself "I'll be fine, I'll be fine". obviously you don't know for sure that you'll be fine but telling yourself this gives you reassurance and strength to stay composed. "God is on our side" has the same effect, the only reason Palestinians are coping with death and terror is because they have a confident consistent belief that God is with them. I don't see any reason for Israelis to be using this expression when they've clearly got the upper hand and aren't the ones being massacred

 

[stressedadfff]

thank you for clarifying, still ridiculous

I found that first part to be most ridiculous, but Jimmy summed it up pretty well. if you're still confused then I will elaborate

and yes God might not be on either side, we have no way to confirm that. but perhaps you're not understanding that "God is on our side" is an expression that people use when they're utterly helpless. it's a way to remain strong in the face of adversity, like when you're nervous before a job interview you might be standing outside the room telling yourself "I'll be fine, I'll be fine". obviously you don't know for sure that you'll be fine but telling yourself this gives you reassurance and strength to stay composed. "God is on our side" has the same effect, the only reason Palestinians are coping with death and terror is because they have a confident consistent belief that God is with them. I don't see any reason for Israelis to be using this expression when they've clearly got the upper hand and aren't the ones being massacred

I didn’t think it’s that hard to comprehend.

 

[dan964]

Hamas was formed twenty years after Israel decided to find a country that Jews can colonise since they were being persecuted. That’s self defence 100%. Without Israel hamas wouldn’t be existing.

Edit: Now that's ridiculous, I don't agree that a militant organisation like Hamas which is funded by the likes of Iran/other Arabic countries, is mere self defence.

 

[jimmysmith560]

I don't agree that a militant organisation like Hamas which is funded by the likes of Israel, is mere self defence.

Hamas isn't funded by Israel though?

It was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood (which is considered a terrorist organisation today).

 

[dan964]

thank you for clarifying, still ridiculous

I found that first part to be most ridiculous, but Jimmy summed it up pretty well. if you're still confused then I will elaborate

and yes God might not be on either side, we have no way to confirm that. but perhaps you're not understanding that "God is on our side" is an expression that people use when they're utterly helpless. it's a way to remain strong in the face of adversity, like when you're nervous before a job interview you might be standing outside the room telling yourself "I'll be fine, I'll be fine". obviously you don't know for sure that you'll be fine but telling yourself this gives you reassurance and strength to stay composed. "God is on our side" has the same effect, the only reason Palestinians are coping with death and terror is because they have a confident consistent belief that God is with them. I don't see any reason for Israelis to be using this expression when they've clearly got the upper hand and aren't the ones being massacred

I understand it can be used as an expression. However that is not how it was used in the post I was addressing... I was addressing 'stressedasaffff'' post. I don't think a militant Islamic extremist group, like Hamas, even if their actions in the current context are in defence; has God on its side.

the only reason Palestinians are coping with death and terror is because they have a confident consistent belief that God is with them.

Religion / a firm belief in God can help with resilience!

 

[dan964]

Hamas isn't funded by Israel though?

It was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood (which is considered a terrorist organisation today).

I meant iran. whoops. clearly it is late.
i've amended my post

 

[jimmysmith560]

I meant iran. whoops. clearly it is late.
i've amended my post

Are you sure that Iran supports/funds Hamas? Iran is Shia while Hamas is Sunni (these are like nemeses). I don't think that's true. I know for sure that Iran supports Hezbollah since they're both Shia but I don't think Iran supports Hamas at all. Iran supports the Palestinian cause and is against Israel, but not support/fund Hamas.

Hahaha we can both tell it's that time of the day again, where we start to mess up

 

[dan964]

Are you sure that Iran supports/funds Hamas? Iran is Shia while Hamas is Sunni (these are like nemeses). I don't think that's true. I know for sure that Iran supports Hezbollah since they're both Shia but I don't think Iran supports Hamas at all. Iran supports the Palestinian cause and is against Israel, but not support/fund Hamas.

Hahaha we can both tell it's that time of the day again, where we start to mess up

Clearly getting my extremist Islamic groups confused. But apparently the President of the National Authority of Palestine claimed that back in 2008. And apparently they were funded by Iran until they supported Assad in Syria in '09.
So my information was correct only 13 years out of date.

Nah they are funded by religious donors in Saudi and Qatar mainly nowadays

 

[jimmysmith560]

Clearly getting my extremist Islamic groups confused. But apparently the President of the National Authority of Palestine claimed that back in 2008. And apparently they were funded by Iran until they supported Assad in Syria in '09.
So my information was correct only 13 years out of date.

Nah they are funded by religious donors in Saudi and Qatar mainly nowadays

Yeah that's much more accurate. Iran is in favour of Shia governments/organisations (and doesn't mind secular governments like Syria's) and is mainly against Sunni governments/organisations like Saudi Arabia and Qatar (pretty much all Arab Gulf countries which Syria also opposes).

 

[dan964]

How this conflict unfolded?

May 5 - Israeli government hung parliament.
May 6 - Two Palestinians killed in classes with IDF
May 7-8 - Police deployed at Temple Mount. Worshippers pelted previously stockpiled rocks at Israeli police who retaliated with stun grenades & the like; including inside the mosque.
May 10 - In response to the conflict at the Mosque, Hamas fires into Israel.
May 11 - Israel strikes back.
and so on...

 

[SylviaB]

 

[Directrix]

 

[SylviaB]

The fact that Palestine has no air force etc. is irrelevant. If hamas are going to launch rockets at Israel, Israel are going to fight back. You think Israel should just sit there and accept rockets being fired just because the people launching the rockets are so much less advanced than them? You're dumb.

 

[totally_screwed]

The fact that Palestine has no air force etc. is irrelevant. If hamas are going to launch rockets at Israel, Israel are going to fight back. You think Israel should just sit there and accept rockets being fired just because the people launching the rockets are so much less advanced than them? You're dumb.

idk how to link videos but pls can you visit the instagram page @subhi.taha, and watch his video called "Stop diverting the Palestinian cause". start from around the 3 minute mark because he has the perfect response to your "okAy but Hamas" argument, you're just parroting what every zionist says it's really getting old

if you don't wanna watch the vid, I'll type up his exact words for you just lmk

 

[queenb_3]

The fact that Palestine has no air force etc. is irrelevant. If hamas are going to launch rockets at Israel, Israel are going to fight back. You think Israel should just sit there and accept rockets being fired just because the people launching the rockets are so much less advanced than them? You're dumb.

You're being ridiculous, and you're making it seem like everything Israel is doing is just 'to defend themselves' as if they didn't start all this to begin with. Know your history and facts mate.

 

[jimmysmith560]

The problem here is that people seem to misunderstand the order of the events.

SylviaB said that Israel attacking Palestinians is a response to the rockets launched by Hamas, when in fact it was Israel that initiated this tension by attacking innocent Palestinian citizens during an important period of the year for Muslim people. Hamas is merely responding to Israel's actions.

 

[SylviaB]

SylviaB said that Israel attacking Palestinians is a response to the rockets launched by Hamas, when in fact it was Israel that initiated this tension by attacking innocent Palestinian citizens during an important period of the year for Muslim people. Hamas is merely responding to Israel's actions.

Yeah, they were still the first one to launch rockets. It's just stupid to launch rockets at someone and then complain when they hit back harder. What did you think was going to happen?

 

[SylviaB]

You're being ridiculous, and you're making it seem like everything Israel is doing is just 'to defend themselves' as if they didn't start all this to begin with. Know your history and facts mate.

How far do you want to go back? Sounds like you want to start history AFTER arab imperialism, but if you really want to talk about "to begin with", there are only arabs in the region due to arabs invading other countries.

 

[SylviaB]

idk how to link videos but pls can you visit the instagram page @subhi.taha, and watch his video called "Stop diverting the Palestinian cause". start from around the 3 minute mark because he has the perfect response to your "okAy but Hamas" argument, you're just parroting what every zionist says it's really getting old

if you don't wanna watch the vid, I'll type up his exact words for you just lmk

The first ones to fire rockets were Hamas. If you don't have an air force, then don't fire rockets at countries that do. Don't act like Hamas are some fringe group that Palestinians don't support. If that were true, they would be angry at hamas for firing rockets to begin with.