Poorly ranked school but want a 95+ ATAR (1 Viewer)

[salihaaaameeer]

Hey guys,

I'm currently in year 12, went to a fairly good school ranked in the 100s, and the cohort was great. However I just moved to a rural area and thus had to move to my local school, which is ranked in the 800s, and this year I believe, there were only 2 students who got 1 band six each, and that was it.

I'm aiming for an ATAR of at least 95 and these are my term 1 results:

Biology: 95% = rank 1/19
Physics 93% = rank 2/4
English Advanced: 94% = rank 1/14
Math Advanced: 89% = rank 3/15
Business studies: 90% = rank 2/50
IPT: 94% = rank 3/13

Now the problem here is my ranks. I'm not first in all of my subjects which was my initial goal and TBH, I'm like 90% sure that no one will score anything above 80% in trials. There are 2-3 good students in my year that have taken 1st place in the subjects I'm also doing.


Let's say I do well in my trials (90+) and get first place for all/most of my subjects, will the people who ranked better than me in terms 1 and 2 take my mark in trials, and will I take their mark that was lower than mine?

For example, during trials for physics, if I got a 90% and the person who was ranked 1st in terms 1 and 2 got 70%, will their mark be 90% and mine be 70%???

I'm really afraid that moderation will take away a high ATAR.

 

[jimmysmith560]

That is not quite the way in which moderation works. Essentially, moderation uses your rank as well as Examination Marks (HSC exam marks) achieved by your cohort in a particular subject in order to determine your Assessment Mark (the mark that reflects your internal performance). Your rank is determined by your performance relative to other students in your cohort in your school-based assessment tasks/exams. The higher your standard of performance, the higher your rank is likely to be, which in your case applies to most of your subjects.

Once your final rank is determined, it will be used alongside an Examination Mark achieved by either you or another student in your cohort in order to determine your Assessment Mark. In the case of the subjects that you are currently ranked first in, provided that you end up maintaining your position your Assessment Mark will be adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark of any student in your cohort. For example, if you maintain your current rank in Biology, and the highest HSC exam mark for Biology in your cohort (whether you or another student achieves it) ends up being 90, you will receive 90 as your Assessment Mark. If you happen to have received the highest Examination Mark, then it will automatically become your HSC mark (final mark), should you be ranked first internally.

This is slightly different if you are not ranked first, whereby your Assessment Mark may be similar (although not necessarily the same) to an equivalent Examination Mark. The following example from NESA illustrates this well:



Notice that the student ranked third received an Assessment Mark of 74, which is similar to the third highest Examination Mark of 72.

It is important to note that your own HSC exam mark is determined by your own performance in the HSC exam of a particular subject and is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank.

Regarding your performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams (including your trial exams), your own marks will be recorded, and those specific mark values will not be modified according to the performance of other students in your cohort as this precedes the moderation process.

I hope this helps!

 

[nathanzhou1234]

Hey guys,

I'm currently in year 12, went to a fairly good school ranked in the 100s, and the cohort was great. However I just moved to a rural area and thus had to move to my local school, which is ranked in the 800s, and this year I believe, there were only 2 students who got 1 band six each, and that was it.

I'm aiming for an ATAR of at least 95 and these are my term 1 results:

Biology: 95% = rank 1/19
Physics 93% = rank 2/4
English Advanced: 94% = rank 1/14
Math Advanced: 89% = rank 3/15
Business studies: 90% = rank 2/50
IPT: 94% = rank 3/13

Now the problem here is my ranks. I'm not first in all of my subjects which was my initial goal and TBH, I'm like 90% sure that no one will score anything above 80% in trials. There are 2-3 good students in my year that have taken 1st place in the subjects I'm also doing.


Let's say I do well in my trials (90+) and get first place for all/most of my subjects, will the people who ranked better than me in terms 1 and 2 take my mark in trials, and will I take their mark that was lower than mine?

For example, during trials for physics, if I got a 90% and the person who was ranked 1st in terms 1 and 2 got 70%, will their mark be 90% and mine be 70%???

I'm really afraid that moderation will take away a high ATAR.

First in internals gets the highest external mark as their internal mark typically, so if someone’s ranked first but you pop off in the external exam its quite likely something like this can happen

 

[salihaaaameeer]

That is not quite the way in which moderation works. Essentially, moderation uses your rank as well as Examination Marks (HSC exam marks) achieved by your cohort in a particular subject in order to determine your Assessment Mark (the mark that reflects your internal performance). Your rank is determined by your performance relative to other students in your cohort in your school-based assessment tasks/exams. The higher your standard of performance, the higher your rank is likely to be, which in your case applies to most of your subjects.

Once your final rank is determined, it will be used alongside an Examination Mark achieved by either you or another student in your cohort in order to determine your Assessment Mark. In the case of the subjects that you are currently ranked first in, provided that you end up maintaining your position your Assessment Mark will be adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark of any student in your cohort. For example, if you maintain your current rank in Biology, and the highest HSC exam mark for Biology in your cohort (whether you or another student achieves it) ends up being 90, you will receive 90 as your Assessment Mark. If you happen to have received the highest Examination Mark, then it will automatically become your HSC mark (final mark), should you be ranked first internally.

This is slightly different if you are not ranked first, whereby your Assessment Mark may be similar (although not necessarily the same) to an equivalent Examination Mark. The following example from NESA illustrates this well:

View attachment 37448

Notice that the student ranked third received an Assessment Mark of 74, which is similar to the third highest Examination Mark of 72.

It is important to note that your own HSC exam mark is determined by your own performance in the HSC exam of a particular subject and is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank.

Regarding your performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams (including your trial exams), your own marks will be recorded, and those specific mark values will not be modified according to the performance of other students in your cohort as this precedes the moderation process.

I hope this helps!

Thank you!! Im happy to know that it works in favour of both the people who had a lower internal rank but higher exam mark or a high internal rank but lower exam mark.

 

[salihaaaameeer]

First in internals gets the highest external mark as their internal mark typically, so if someone’s ranked first but you pop off in the external exam its quite likely something like this can happen

Wait so would it work in favour of someone who did well in trials but had a lower internal rank, or the opposite way?

 

[011235]

Wait so would it work in favour of someone who did well in trials but had a lower internal rank, or the opposite way?

Trials is just another internal assessment (that your school gives you) that affects your internal rank. Your final internal rank includes trials.

 

[nathanzhou1234]

Wait so would it work in favour of someone who did well in trials but had a lower internal rank, or the opposite way?

Lets say hypothetically ur in a two person course. Over the course of the 4 internal assessments (trials included) you get 80/100 and someone else gets 81/100. Now lets say hypothetically in the external hsc exam you get 100/100 and the other dude gets 50/100. Because nesa stipulates that the highest internal moderated mark is equal to the highest external mark, you’ll get 50/100 as your internal mark and the other guy will get 100/100 internal.

 

[salihaaaameeer]

That's scary, how bad will it affect your ATAR though?

 

[salihaaaameeer]

Trials is just another internal assessment (that your school gives you) that affects your internal rank. Your final internal rank includes trials.

I guess ill have to do a rank jump next term and in trials and get back 1st place in the subjects that im ranked 2nd/3rd in

 

[nathanzhou1234]

That's scary, how bad will it affect your ATAR though?

This is just an extreme case and its a reason why subjects with only a small amount of people tend to be avoided. Something like this is unlikely to happen to this extent but can still drag down you atar massively

 

[jimmysmith560]

That's scary, how bad will it affect your ATAR though?

In addition to the actual result, that depends on the unit value of the subject as well as the unit value that it contributes as part of your best 10 units. In your case, given that you are taking 12 units, your worst performing subject will not count towards your ATAR.

I personally doubt that you have much to worry about in this regard (also see Nathan’s post above) given your rather high standard of performance across your subjects. As long as you ensure you maintain (and if possible, improve) your current ranks, you will eventually maximise your chances of achieving your desired ATAR.

 

[salihaaaameeer]

This is just an extreme case and its a reason why subjects with only a small amount of people tend to be avoided. Something like this is unlikely to happen to this extent but can still drag down you atar massively

Ok so since trials are also counted into your internal rank, then would I just need to get 1st in term 2 and 3 (trials) to not be affected by it?

 

[salihaaaameeer]

In addition to the actual result, that depends on the unit value of the subject as well as the unit value that it contributes as part of your best 10 units. In your case, given that you are taking 12 units, your worst performing subject will not count towards your ATAR.

I personally doubt that you have much to worry about in this regard (also see Nathan’s post above) given your rather high standard of performance across your subjects. As long as you ensure you maintain (and if possible, improve) your current ranks, you will eventually maximise your chances of achieving your desired ATAR.

Thank you so much, I can definitely improve my ranks in terms 2 and 3

 

[carrotsss]

Ok so since trials are also counted into your internal rank, then would I just need to get 1st in term 2 and 3 (trials) to not be affected by it?

Yes, although it’s worthy bearing in mind that being second or third isn’t the end of the world as long as you are close to rank 1 and far away from lower ranks mark-wise, as this will mean that you will be given an internal moderated mark which is close to rank 1