2013 Federal election (7 Viewers)

[townie]

Tl;dr offshore processing in and of itself isn't really cruel, but doing it indefinitely is (but so is onshore indefinite detention, just as much so)

 

[TheGreatest99.95]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

how embarrassing http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-...-surplus-newsletters-in-question-time/4504874

 

[Acid Rain]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

how embarrassing http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-...-surplus-newsletters-in-question-time/4504874

Well Swan is a joke of a treasurer

 

[TheGreatest99.95]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

Well Swan is a joke of a treasurer

he such as wayneker

 

[townie]

The intercepting of vessels and processing them offshore is used for two ends, both of them objectionable. The first is a statistical fudge, if the boats are diverted to Nauru or Manus Island than they aren't recorded as a boat arrival because they've never reached Australian territory.The second is that our responsibility for their level of care is less overseas. Pregnant women were housed in tents on Nauru, no judge, not even Dyson Heydon would have ever allowed that to happen on Australian soil.

Wouldn't you agree on the latter though that's that's a result of the quality of the accommodation rather than the fact that its offshore?

I think the accommodation should be more than reasonable and if it Isn't currently it should be upgraded as a matter of urgency. I also think that offshore processing is ludicrously expensive. I'm just not philosophically opposed to it.

Also, not so sure about that, wasn't it the high court that said indefinite detention was a-okay?

 

[SylviaB]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

I think the accommodation should be more than reasonable and if it Isn't currently it should be upgraded as a matter of urgency.

Why? Nobody made them come here.

 

[townie]

Why? Nobody made them come here.

Because its the right thing to do.

Nobody made you go to university but the taxpayer still foots the bill.

 

[SylviaB]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

Nobody made you go to university but the taxpayer still foots the bill.

That would be a relevant thing to bring up if they didn't/stopped footing the bill and I had a massive sook about it.

And in any case, I will almost certainly be high-income in the relatively near future, meaning I will more than pay back the money I've received through taxes. So ultimately, unlike paying to look after boat people, the tax payer actually benefits from paying for my education.

 

[townie]

That would be a relevant thing to bring up if they didn't/stopped footing the bill and I had a massive sook about it.

And in any case, I will almost certainly be high-income in the relatively near future, meaning I will more than pay back the money I've received through taxes. So ultimately, unlike paying to look after boat people, the tax payer actually benefits from paying for my education.

Inflated sense of self worth much?

In any event Australia needs people to work and benefits just as much as from refugees as it does stuck up pricks. university graduates.

 

[will90211]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

Whatever political party you subscribe to, you have to admit that this is very very shoddy and shows little thought and intelligence: The Mining Tax has ONLY raised 166 Million in its first half - the total cost that was expected to be raised by the end of its 1st year was 2 Billion. Wayne Swan is a treasurer, nay an MP serving to the detriment for Labor.

 

[Lolsmith]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

Inflated sense of self worth much?

In any event Australia needs people to work and benefits just as much as from refugees as it does stuck up pricks. university graduates.

but what about white jobs for white workers

 

[golgo13]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

Whatever political party you subscribe to, you have to admit that this is very very shoddy and shows little thought and intelligence: The Mining Tax has ONLY raised 166 Million in its first half - the total cost that was expected to be raised by the end of its 1st year was 2 Billion. Wayne Swan is a treasurer, nay an MP serving to the detriment for Labor.

I actually think the tax is a waste of time if anything they should try to encourage the miners to take on more workers, increasing the amount of employment opportunities removing people who are able to work from the dole and therefore increase a stable long term tax stream revenue. Not an economist, so the idea might be far from realistic, but your taxing a private enterprise who is obviously going to avoid paying as much as possible to the government, and is one of the biggest industries which they are trying to suffocate to please a hung parliament

 

[funkshen]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

I actually think the tax is a waste of time if anything they should try to encourage the miners to take on more workers, increasing the amount of employment opportunities removing people who are able to work from the dole and therefore increase a stable long term tax stream revenue. Not an economist, so the idea might be far from realistic, but your taxing a private enterprise who is obviously going to avoid paying as much as possible to the government, and is one of the biggest industries which they are trying to suffocate to please a hung parliament

you're right, it's an outrage that we tax these businesses at all. if anything, we should be the ones paying them instead. do you think if we pay them enough, they'd take on so many workers that we'd have a negative unemployment rate? not an economist, so the idea might be far from realistic.

 

[Lolsmith]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

All dat long term employment until all the magic dirt is gone

 

[golgo13]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

you're right, it's an outrage that we tax these businesses at all. if anything, we should be the ones paying them instead. do you think if we pay them enough, they'd take on so many workers that we'd have a negative unemployment rate? not an economist, so the idea might be far from realistic.

Hahah i wish they'd be no tax but i think what the government needs is a different approach to the problem as opposed to just slapping a tax on the people that make the most money. In a sense they're sorta like robin hood at the moment, but i'm saying that some people who are medically fine to work but elect no to because let's be honest if you got paid for not doing any work who wouldn't

 

[funkshen]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

What did you expect, the current MRRT was a political reaction not an economic strategy, The RSPT was the one that the Henry Review recommended, the MRRT was a rushed policy put in place for political purposes. The Gilllard government announced it about ten minutes after it took office in exchange for the minerals council stopping it's ad campaign against it. A tax that was supposed to raise between six and eight billion a year has been replaced by one that raises 130 million. I eagerly await for someone to tell me how it was somehow all Kevin's fault.

the MRRT has raised just as much as the RSPT would have so far this year.

 

[funkshen]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

No, the RSPT did not exempt companies whose profit margins were below 50 million like the MRRT did, it covered a much greater range of mineral industries, it taxed at a higher rate and the RSPT taxed a the point of sale not at the mine gate. It would have taken in much more revenue.

no it wouldn't have. the RSPT imposed a tax liability on super profits, of which there have been relatively few this year, and also a tax credit to offset losses, of which there have been relatively high number this year. while receipts might have been higher this year, net revenue would be approximately the same, if not far less, under the RSPT. the reason for the meagre sum collected thus far has to do with a lack of super profits, rather the structure of the tax. note that i'm not disputing the fact that in the coming boon years, the MRRT will take in much less than the RSPT would have.

 

[funkshen]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

This would be the way in which it is possible for the RSPT to have raised less. I'm not sufficiently interested to actually rake over the statistics myself but the received wisdom in both the Fairfax and the Murdoch papers is that the number of business clocking losses is not so high as to cancel out the extra intakes the RSPT would have brought with it.

$US600m loss on the Sino Iron project alone this year. its all guesstimation but most people in the know (that counts out journalists) are inclined to believe while the RSPT may have brought in as much as the MRRT, it may have brought in far less.

this argument is trivial anyways, because even if the RSPT was introduced and there weren't substantial losses, the paucity of super profits means that we would've had the very same articles being written about the RSPT delivering meagre amounts.

 

[Lolsmith]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/mining-tax-comes-up-short-20130208-2e2v3.html

Ms Gillard made renegotiating the mining tax a priority when she became Prime Minister in mid-2010, agreeing that miners could deduct state royalties from their mining tax liability. This meant that when a state raised mining royalties on iron ore or coal, the tax's proceeds were reduced.

Does anyone know if this accounts purely for raises in the royalties, or does it account for the current level as well? Also has this made any significant impact on the revenue of the MRRT?

 

[funkshen]

Re: 2013 Australian Federal election

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/mining-tax-comes-up-short-20130208-2e2v3.html



Does anyone know if this accounts purely for raises in the royalties, or does it account for the current level as well? Also has this made any significant impact on the revenue of the MRRT?

i don't ~know~ but considering that the only royalty hike since the MRRT was introduced has been queensland coal i doubt there was a significant and unexpected impact on MRRT revenues. on the other hand, successive rises in NSW, queensland and WA royalties from late 2011 to now may have fudged the forecasts for the MRRT that the media has been running with ($2bn in the first year)