30 million dollars (1 Viewer)

[Generator]

Generator, my Oma was indonesian and my opa half indonesian.. not bullshit.

I'm not doubting your background, rather it's the suggestion that this is not a race issue, and the idea that you being part Indonesian illustrates this, that I consider to be a laugh and a half.

 

[Benny1103]

I think many smart people miss out on uni, I was rebuting some one else who pretty much said only stupid people don't get into uni.

In any particular year there will be a few people who put in very little work and achieve very high scores. There will also be people who put in a lot of effort and achieve low scores. However, for the majority, the score that is obtained is directly related to how much effort is put in.

So really, of the the people who wish to get into uni, only the stupid and/or lazy ones don't. Moreover, in terms of worth to society, stupid and lazy are effectively the same thing so what that person said is quite true.

Vizman, it's for asians over seas... and that's my point exactly, why not asians who are already in australia, in our australian schools why not give it to them first.

Like I said before, as long as it is of benefit to Australia then why should it matter where the students are from?

to young mothers who want to study...

Solution: Keep your legs closed until you can actually support yourself.
Personally, 'young mothers' receive no sympathy from me because they brought it upon themselves.

You should use examples of people who actually deserve support. People who go out of their way to make life difficult for themselves (eg. young mothers) are not good examples. Besides, what it comes down to is that as long as a major scheme is beneficial to the majority of Australia then there really isn't much wrong with it.

 

[Generator]

Solution: Keep your legs closed until you can actually support yourself.
Personally, 'young mothers' receive no sympathy from me because they brought it upon themselves.

You just lost any credibility that you may have had with the above.

 

[SweetSeasons]

I'm not doubting your background, rather it's the suggestion that this is not a race issue, and the idea that you being part Indonesian illustrates this, that I consider to be a laugh and a half.

it's not a race issue

 

[Benny1103]

You just lost any credibility that you may have had with the above.

Personal beliefs and morals do not come into this. Please re-read the issue at the beginning of the topic so that you actually know what is being discussed.

 

[Generator]

Personal beliefs and morals do not come into this. Please re-read the issue at the beginning of the topic so that you actually know what is being discussed.

I know what is being discussed, but I'm afraid that with opinions such as the one I quoted, I cannot help but think that your views aren't worthy of our consideration. Yes, that may not be fair, but neither was your statment, a statement that belongs in the past.

 

[Benny1103]

I know what is being discussed, but I'm afraid that with opinions such as the one I quoted, I cannot help but think that your views aren't worthy of our consideration. Yes, that may not be fair, but neither was your statment, a statement that belongs in the past.

So are you saying that you discuss issues based on your unyielding and rigid beliefs, while disregarding any comments of those who do not share your view?

 

[Generator]

And you're not as rigid, I take it?

What I was saying is that though the argument is what should always be considered, it isn't as though we can just divorce it from that which accompanies it. In the above instance, I considered a point that you made to be rather disgusting and of no value to the discussion. Yes, I may have been too quick to have dismissed the rest of your argument, but quite frankly, I don't consider that to be a problem.

 

[Benny1103]

Am I as rigid? Well for one thing while I have my own opinions, I do not just ignore another person's comments simply because they do not believe in the same things as me.

So you think that a particular point is of no value to the discussion. Ok, but then why did you admit to ignoring the other points which are relevant to the dicussion?

So I would still like to know, do you discuss issues based on your unyielding and rigid beliefs, while disregarding any comments of those who do not share your view? Note that I am not asking you whether or not it is a problem if you do, or do not, ignore opinions different to your ones.

You might think that this is all irrelevant, but not anymore so than your initial poorly motivated comment about the 'credibility' of another person's points.

 

[Dreamerish*~]

no, I'm pretty proud of every part of me, I'm not being racist at all.

Benny. Improve the education system, better systems which moniter how well a teacher educates, there are so many teachers who can't teach. Or even little things such as new furniture so kids can sit on a seat that isn't about to fall appart or more books for schools.
I think many smart people miss out on uni, I was rebuting some one else who pretty much said only stupid people don't get into uni.

Vizman, it's for asians over seas... and that's my point exactly, why not asians who are already in australia, in our australian schools why not give it to them first.

Much of your education relies on your self-motivation and effort outside school. At schools like James Ruse the students are pushed to put large amounts of time into study outside school hours, hence they have the most high-achievers of any school in the state. The thing is, you don't have to go to James Ruse (or any selective school at all) to be just as good as them. Even at extremely low-ranked schools there are students who have UAIs of 95+. It's all up to the individual. Your teachers can't spoon-feed every piece of information to you and they'll say little to nothing if you don't do your homework. Everyone has a chance to get into uni if they're determined. You can't sit on your ass and watch TV then at the end of the year complain that the Chinese kid's place at uni is actually rightfully yours.

Why not give the scholarships to people in australia who can't afford the texts books or the train fair to uni, people who can't aford to spend 4 years more at school because they need to be earning money right now, to young mothers who want to study.. there are so many people in this country already who need it, why go over seas.. I don't see the point

There are scholarships for Australian students.

 

[Generator]

Am I as rigid? Well for one thing while I have my own opinions, I do not just ignore another person's comments simply because they do not believe in the same things as me.

So you think that a particular point is of no value to the discussion. Ok, but then why did you admit to ignoring the other points which are relevant to the dicussion?

So I would still like to know, do you discuss issues based on your unyielding and rigid beliefs, while disregarding any comments of those who do not share your view? Note that I am not asking you whether or not it is a problem if you do, or do not, ignore opinions different to your ones.

You might think that this is all irrelevant, but not anymore so than your initial poorly motivated comment about the 'credibility' of another person's points.

It's context dependent. As I said, I found that particular comment to be quite disgusting, so, unfairly or not, I decided to ignore the rest of your argument given that the quoted comment led me into thinking that you happen to be a person who does not deserve full and open consideration. For the record, I'm not claiming to be a virtuous debater (or entirely rational), and in this instance I was just passing judgement on what I considered to be a worthless and denigrating remark.

 

[Benny1103]

It's context dependent. As I said, I found that particular comment to be quite disgusting, so, unfairly or not, I decided to ignore the rest of your argument given that the quoted comment led me into thinking that you happen to be a person who does not deserve full and open consideration. For the record, I'm not claiming to be a virtuous debater (or entirely rational), and in this instance I was just passing judgement on what I considered to be a worthless and denigrating remark.

You are implicitly using the irrationality which your arguments are based on, as an excuse for what you originally said.

You can word it anyway you want to. The fact that still stands is that in this thread at least, you argued on the following premise. Someone who has an opinion which is different to yours, automatically loses any credibility they might have.

This is easily seen from the fact that I expressed an opinion of mine on 'young mothers' which is different to yours. You then proceeded to dogmatically assert that I lose all credibility.

Sure, if you do not wish to consider my comments then that's your choice. However, it is completely senseless to pass judgment on something you haven't even read properly. You said that my comments have no credibility. Since you are also (admittedly) ignoring all of my points, then you are passing judgment on something which you have no idea about.

You did not simply comment on that single remark. You generalised and said that my points have no credibility whatsoever - even though you (admittedly) haven't read the majority of my comments. Are you aware of how ridiculous it is to pass judgment on something that you (admittedly) haven't even read/seen before. So how do you justify saying that I lose all credibility when you don't even know what I've said?

 

[Generator]

I can't justify it, benny. For all that was posted before this, I apologise. There was nothing to be gained by ignoring your argument in its entirety or by suggesting that as a member of the forum you lack credibility, no matter how offensive that particular remark truly is.

I also apologise to everyone else for 'ruining' yet another thread.

 

[ur_inner_child]

do u know whats annoying me.. my mum just said the government is giving 30 million dolars worth of scholarships to asians over seas so they can come study here.. i'm not racist at all or anything an dif i was i'd have to hate my self cause i've got a bit of every thing in me.. but it's taking away the places in uni for the kids that grew up in australia as if it's not hard enough to get in to uni to start with.

ever since john howards got this extra power things are getting pretty fucked

i'd like a link.

how easily could "international students" equate to "asian students" is rather easy.

30 million to international students sounds a bit hotter to me, rather than the government running around and being racially selective about it.

 

[hipsta_jess]

Nah, what I heard it was specifically for students from a certain Asian region (don't ask me what coz I was only half listening to the report and didn't really care enough to pay attention)

 

[Generator]

i'd like a link.

how easily could "international students" equate to "asian students" is rather easy.

30 million to international students sounds a bit hotter to me, rather than the government running around and being racially selective about it.

Both frigid and I posted a link, but oh well, here's one of the links for the second time - http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17536304%5E12332,00.html

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Some of the money is going towards scholarships for Australian students to study in Asia as well. Not sure what proportion. But maybe if we get more international students the government will be under more pressure to make sure university services are adequately funded.... maybe *dreams and gazes out of window*

 

[hYperTrOphY]

Why not give the scholarships to people in australia who can't afford the texts books or the train fair to uni, people who can't aford to spend 4 years more at school because they need to be earning money right now, to young mothers who want to study.. there are so many people in this country already who need it, why go over seas.. I don't see the point

I don't understand how people in this country can complain about the opportunities we get. The resources and assistance available is very adequate in my opinion. Without such government assistance I would not be able to attend university. I have applied for 3 scholarships.

You ask why don't they give scholarships to people in Australia who can't afford books, the train etc? THEY DO! Have you not seen the various equity scholarships available for single mothers, Aborigines, people experiencing financial disadvantage? Moreover, look at the assistance provided by government agencies such as Centrelink. Because I will be continuing my study next year and I have from low socio-economic status I receive youth allowance to help.
If I was to get the 2 main scholarships + my youth allowance next year, I would be receiving $600 p/fortnight. I think that should cover most of the books and train fare.

Furthermore, don't forget that the government pays a significant amount of your university fee for you.

 

[prosaic]

do u know whats annoying me.. my mum just said the government is giving 30 million dolars worth of scholarships to asians over seas so they can come study here.. i'm not racist at all or anything an dif i was i'd have to hate my self cause i've got a bit of every thing in me.. but it's taking away the places in uni for the kids that grew up in australia as if it's not hard enough to get in to uni to start with.

ever since john howards got this extra power things are getting pretty fucked

It's because he encountered so many people like you (i.e. with your level of sub-intelligence) that he gave in to his worst xenophobic nightmares and really has no choice but to lure over able-minded people, albeit Asian, to help Australia progress by actually contributing to the future economy and infrastructure.

But hey, don't be mad at Johnny; you guys seem to have heaps in common - your definition of 'racism' to start off with.

 

[Omnidragon]

do u know whats annoying me.. my mum just said the government is giving 30 million dolars worth of scholarships to asians over seas so they can come study here.. i'm not racist at all or anything an dif i was i'd have to hate my self cause i've got a bit of every thing in me.. but it's taking away the places in uni for the kids that grew up in australia as if it's not hard enough to get in to uni to start with.

ever since john howards got this extra power things are getting pretty fucked

Gee... i thought they wanted Asians to come here b/c they're paying full-fee and they can make a shit-load off them. Besides... I woulda thought Howard wouldn't even qualify to be the last person to er... assist Asians.