A Question of Christian Theology (3 Viewers)

[Iron]

the catholic party?

yes

 

[Tully B.]

youre dull m8

That hurt.

 

[Lentern]

I'm sorry... have you READ some of my posts. I grew up in the World Capital of Bogan, Nowra... I have a potty mouth and a half. I tend to not use intense profanities like the c-bomb often, But I do use them when occasion arises (such as when someone backed into my car then drove off causing significant damage...) Oh boy that string of profanities would have made the most hardened military veteran look on in horror. The reason I tend to not use them in normal conversation tends to be because I believe they tend to show a limited vocabulary and small mindedness.

I said you were pleasant I didn't call you Ned Flanders, settle down.

 

[Ayatollah]

Hey Tully B. Everything you believe is a lie and because I disagree with you on a fundamental level, and because I think I'm intellectually superior to you, and because I'm an intolerant pig I'm going to call you a dog and every piece of evidence you provide I'm going to reply with "bad Dog"... now resist the urge to not swear at me

but everything you belief is a huge fail....and that makes you a bad dog

 

[Teclis]

I said you were pleasant I didn't call you Ned Flanders, settle down.

And I was being slightly humurous...

And Ayatollah... shut up...

 

[Libby01P]

wow... well, I'm going to offer my two-cents to the original question:

Why do I have to have an afterlife? I mean my dog and bird get to just die. And don’t say “because your made in his image”- I didn’t consent!!!!!!

I know most of the people on this thread are not Christian, but give me the benefit of the doubt that I can actually form a coherant response:

In my opinion (which may not be correct but anyway) I think it depends on what you call an 'afterlife.' It is extremely tempting to just reduce 'heaven' and 'hell' to physical places, just as it is tempting to reduce 'God' to an old white man in the sky with a magnifying glass. In my opinion, Heaven and Hell are impossible 'places' - they don't exist, really, but I do believe there is something beyond our awareness here on Earth that we cannot fully comprehend beyond the Earth. And who's to say dogs and birds don't get to go there when they die too? We DONT know. We don't even know if we really are 'made in God's image,' the Bible is not, unfortunately, the Word of God like the Quran is for Muslims. It was written by falliable humans. It could be a metaphor for having that distinction that separates us from animals, for having that ability to reason and wonder for example. we don't know.

Why is this at all necessary? I wasn't given a choice to be born- had I been, perhaps I might have declined given eternity is a while...

It is sad you think this, although I have a feeling you're just being ironic It is hard to decide whether life is 'necessary' or not, the problem being, we'll never know, seeing as we're alive and all.

If the non-believer is content with no afterlife- why can't god grant them (in his all-loving character) the wish of just...dieing? It's dead simple.

lol "dead" simple. i geddit
Seriously, this IS where you're faith comes into it. I might say that again we don't know whether God will give us choices in the afterlife, but I'm inclined to believe that there is an afterlife, but again, don't generalise that 'Heaven' is meremly a place where you sit around for eternity getting bored. I'm inclined to think of it as more of an 'enlightenment' than a place - a higher awareness. Perhaps Hell is also that awareness, but fully realising the negative impact you have had in your life, and that is what is meant by being 'cut off' from God.

I also think that you can't just wait for an afterlife, now THATS unnecessary. What's the point of living, which, I said above, is an irrelevant choice? I think religion is an awareness of something beyond ourselves, it should be a humbling thing, and make us more apreciative of what we have before everything disapears and we are ultimately left with the nemesis of human emotions: the Unknown.

I do like these debates though

 

[Libby01P]

If someone could try and summarise any other points, I'd be happy to form a rebuttal

 

[ad infinitum]

I know most of the people on this thread are not Christian, but give me the benefit of the doubt that I can actually form a coherant response:

In my opinion (which may not be correct but anyway) I think it depends on what you call an 'afterlife.' It is extremely tempting to just reduce 'heaven' and 'hell' to physical places,

People are not reducing anthing by taking heaven/hell as physical places; the're taking the bible on its word. You are the one enganged in reduction, in the distilling of the bible.

just as it is tempting to reduce 'God' to an old white man in the sky with a magnifying glass. In my opinion, Heaven and Hell are impossible 'places' - they don't exist, really, but I do believe there is something beyond our awareness here on Earth that we cannot fully comprehend beyond the Earth.

Whats that got to do with a God? Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize, but that doesn't mean we should equate these mysterious things.

And who's to say dogs and birds don't get to go there when they die too? We DONT know..

Yea know one knows what happens after death, however our best geus is it the same as what it was like before we were born(i.e nothing).

We don't even know if we really are 'made in God's image,' the Bible is not, unfortunately, the Word of God like the Quran is for Muslims. It was written by falliable humans. It could be a metaphor for having that distinction that separates us from animals, for having that ability to reason and wonder for example. we don't know...

I would argue none of ou books are written/inspired by God.
Your arguement is that since the bible has many flaws it is some metophor for humanity? No, the bible is a direct example of humans trying to reason; trying to connect the dots, this doesn't indicate a God at all, actually quite the opposite...

Why is this at all necessary? I wasn't given a choice to be born- had I been, perhaps I might have declined given eternity is a while...

It is sad you think this, although I have a feeling you're just being ironic It is hard to decide whether life is 'necessary' or not, the problem being, we'll never know, seeing as we're alive and all....

huh?

lol "dead" simple. i geddit
Seriously, this IS where you're faith comes into it. I might say that again we don't know whether God will give us choices in the afterlife, but I'm inclined to believe that there is an afterlife,....

On what basis? And why would it have anything to do with the Christian God?

but again, don't generalise that 'Heaven' is meremly a place where you sit around for eternity getting bored. I'm inclined to think of it as more of an 'enlightenment' than a place - a higher awareness.

Again this has little to do with the Christian conception of Heaven. Mabye it's just me but I find your claims pretty outragous; How the f**k do you know this shit? Sounds to me like your just trying to make Christianity sound more plausable.

Perhaps Hell is also that awareness, but fully realising the negative impact you have had in your life, and that is what is meant by being 'cut off' from God..

Again their is absolutley no evidence supporting this....how do you know this stuff? Why can't you be content with saying 'I dont know'; where do you pull this stuff from?

I also think that you can't just wait for an afterlife, now THATS unnecessary. What's the point of living, which, I said above, is an irrelevant choice? I think religion is an awareness of something beyond ourselves,

Like that chair over their? I'm pretty sure Religion entails more than that; infact by definition it entails a set of unfalsifiable doctrines and dogmas that one must take as truth....I think your mixing up spirituality and religion...there definitley not the same thing...

it should be a humbling thing, and make us more apreciative of what we have before everything disapears and we are ultimately left with the nemesis of human emotions: the Unknown.

huh, you got a tad muddled?...pressuming that we have no afterlife is what makes people's life even more important; as it suggests that life is temporal, and should be made the most of in the here and now. Pressuming an after life actually demeans our earthly lives; because then our earthly lives are used as mere preperation for the after life (Well atleast in Christian, Muslim, Jewish traditions).

 

[Libby01P]

There is no need to get snide ad infinitum, I'm just relaying the discussions we have been having in my philosophy and studies of religion classes and my own views come into it of course. I think you'll find they are most like the views of revisionist Catholics and Midrash Jews. And before you chop my head off about how the Bible is meant to be interpretated, I believe there was a previous post about how there are many interpretations: revisionist, fundamental, literal, historical etc.

You say I am "involved in the distillation of the Bible," when I always thought I was overcomplicating! I wish sometimes that the Bible was more coherent, that you could just read off the page and there would be the answer... but I find that the Bible seems to inspire rather than direct. Then, of course, there are things like the Ten Commandments, which are pretty direct, I must concede. Also, the Bible does not explicitly say "Heaven is over there, you take a right at the next intersection and turn left." It describes it in terms such as "The Kingdom of God" and things like that. But what does that really mean? Christians are off to another planet to colonise it with celestial men and women? I don't think so. There are certainly no physical Christian Kingdoms on Earth that's for sure. Again, I see those words and discourse as a metaphor that we can understand.

Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize, but that doesn't mean we should equate these mysterious things.
I disagree, I would never say we can truly know everything, so I call those things mysteries. Actually, isn't that what you said? "Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize" could you please clarify this point?

our best geus is it the same as what it was like before we were born(i.e nothing).
Well, thanks for clearing that up but I would argue that there are alot of people who would have other 'best guesses' out there too. You can't say that's the view of everyone.

You believe the Bible is "a direct example of humans trying to reason" - but I agree with you! It is in no way a complete and totally valid text about the 'existance of God' - it is influenced, like all historical documents, by context and bias.

huh?
I was just saying that cookie's arguement (although I have a feeling he/she was not entirely serious) was null and void seeing as there's nothing we could do to stop being born.

On what basis? And why would it have anything to do with the Christian God?
damn, I thought I could just be taken at face value on this one but... I believe there is an afterlife because humans are capable of rationalism and creativity. They can think beyond themselves, they have a concept of history and posterity and can imagine what life would be like beyond their own experiences (empathy and imagination). Just think about it - imagine dying... technically you can't experience it, but you can imagine it. I cannot see how all that energy can just stop in one moment of electrical synapse failure - we can always imagine the future. This is purely my own thinking, but tell me your own view? I'd be interested.

Why can't you be content with saying 'I dont know';
I thinkyou'll find that I've been saying 'I don't know' throughout my whole response. I can't be content because, like you I hope, I an't stop asking questions.

I think your mixing up spirituality and religion...there definitley not the same thing...
Ah, now you've made a fair point. Depending upon your definitions, spirituality and religion might be different, but I don't want to talk semantics, its boring. The Catholic Churches stance on the afterlife for example, is tht people in a state of grace will go to heaven. Interestingly, they don't define heaven as a physical place, physicalisation comes with the Second coming of Christ... I'm not sure about that last bit myself, but that's what the Cathoic Church believes. It's in Revelations apparently. Also, yes, the Church does say that you have no choice whether you go to Heaven or Hell... but how would they know. Maybe you could loiter at the pearly gates flicking cloud dust at St. Peter for awhile to ward off the boredom of eternal paradise. (It would be boring)

it suggests that life is temporal, and should be made the most of in the here and now.
Lastly, thankyou for ruining my ending. I DO agree with you, but could you have at least left my nice ending alone? hahaha, nah. I agree with your point, but striving for fulfilment or, an afterlife, is what motivates some people. Hey, I could even be motivated by it deep down, I don't know. All I know is that my conception of an afterlife is probably not life at all, so there really is something special, unique and sacred about this one.

Sorry about the long post, but at least I got back my good ending! hahahaha

 

[ComingUpForAir]

There is no need to get snide ad infinitum, I'm just relaying the discussions we have been having in my philosophy and studies of religion classes and my own views come into it of course. I think you'll find they are most like the views of revisionist Catholics and Midrash Jews. And before you chop my head off about how the Bible is meant to be interpretated, I believe there was a previous post about how there are many interpretations: revisionist, fundamental, literal, historical etc.

You say I am "involved in the distillation of the Bible," when I always thought I was overcomplicating! I wish sometimes that the Bible was more coherent, that you could just read off the page and there would be the answer... but I find that the Bible seems to inspire rather than direct. Then, of course, there are things like the Ten Commandments, which are pretty direct, I must concede. Also, the Bible does not explicitly say "Heaven is over there, you take a right at the next intersection and turn left." It describes it in terms such as "The Kingdom of God" and things like that. But what does that really mean? Christians are off to another planet to colonise it with celestial men and women? I don't think so. There are certainly no physical Christian Kingdoms on Earth that's for sure. Again, I see those words and discourse as a metaphor that we can understand.

Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize, but that doesn't mean we should equate these mysterious things.
I disagree, I would never say we can truly know everything, so I call those things mysteries. Actually, isn't that what you said? "Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize" could you please clarify this point?

our best geus is it the same as what it was like before we were born(i.e nothing).
Well, thanks for clearing that up but I would argue that there are alot of people who would have other 'best guesses' out there too. You can't say that's the view of everyone.

You believe the Bible is "a direct example of humans trying to reason" - but I agree with you! It is in no way a complete and totally valid text about the 'existance of God' - it is influenced, like all historical documents, by context and bias.

huh?
I was just saying that cookie's arguement (although I have a feeling he/she was not entirely serious) was null and void seeing as there's nothing we could do to stop being born.

On what basis? And why would it have anything to do with the Christian God?
damn, I thought I could just be taken at face value on this one but... I believe there is an afterlife because humans are capable of rationalism and creativity. They can think beyond themselves, they have a concept of history and posterity and can imagine what life would be like beyond their own experiences (empathy and imagination). Just think about it - imagine dying... technically you can't experience it, but you can imagine it. I cannot see how all that energy can just stop in one moment of electrical synapse failure - we can always imagine the future. This is purely my own thinking, but tell me your own view? I'd be interested.

Why can't you be content with saying 'I dont know';
I thinkyou'll find that I've been saying 'I don't know' throughout my whole response. I can't be content because, like you I hope, I an't stop asking questions.

I think your mixing up spirituality and religion...there definitley not the same thing...
Ah, now you've made a fair point. Depending upon your definitions, spirituality and religion might be different, but I don't want to talk semantics, its boring. The Catholic Churches stance on the afterlife for example, is tht people in a state of grace will go to heaven. Interestingly, they don't define heaven as a physical place, physicalisation comes with the Second coming of Christ... I'm not sure about that last bit myself, but that's what the Cathoic Church believes. It's in Revelations apparently. Also, yes, the Church does say that you have no choice whether you go to Heaven or Hell... but how would they know. Maybe you could loiter at the pearly gates flicking cloud dust at St. Peter for awhile to ward off the boredom of eternal paradise. (It would be boring)

it suggests that life is temporal, and should be made the most of in the here and now.
Lastly, thankyou for ruining my ending. I DO agree with you, but could you have at least left my nice ending alone? hahaha, nah. I agree with your point, but striving for fulfilment or, an afterlife, is what motivates some people. Hey, I could even be motivated by it deep down, I don't know. All I know is that my conception of an afterlife is probably not life at all, so there really is something special, unique and sacred about this one.

Sorry about the long post, but at least I got back my good ending! hahahaha

u no good

 

[ad infinitum]

You say I am "involved in the distillation of the Bible," when I always thought I was overcomplicating!

Yes, you aren't taking 'God' on his word, but rather you're looking to confirm whatever obscure interpretation you have concocted (through metaphor, etc). Note: The Bible is nothing special; you can chose any text (i.e a cook book) and draw a 'sacred, mystical, godish' interpretation you want; our brains are very good at picking up on patterns that aren't really there.

I wish sometimes that the Bible was more coherent, that you could just read off the page and there would be the answer... but I find that the Bible seems to inspire rather than direct.

.... When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)......

How does this 'inspire' rather than direct... it inspires slavery; it justifies slavery and this is exactly what Christians used to justify slavery in early America...Yea my point is the bible is a incoherent, wicked and babyish first attempt at philosophy. It should be cast off onto the the pile of failed Mythologies.

Then, of course, there are things like the Ten Commandments, which are pretty direct, I must concede.

Yes and look at how wicked some of the Commanments are. Both you and I could in literly 5 minutes write a better version of the 10 commandments, what does this say about the porbability that this was 'inspired' by an all knowing God....?

Also, the Bible does not explicitly say "Heaven is over there, you take a right at the next intersection and turn left." It describes it in terms such as "The Kingdom of God" and things like that. But what does that really mean? Christians are off to another planet to colonise it with celestial men and women? I don't think so. There are certainly no physical Christian Kingdoms on Earth that's for sure. Again, I see those words and discourse as a metaphor that we can understand.

The Bible was written by people that didn't know they're were other planets, etc, they actually thought there was some magic kingdom above the clouds in some 'spirit' realm....these people and these documents they produced aren't of any great wisdom; you are the one imposing your own wisdom upon these documents (i.e 'it is a metophor for something beyond').

Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize, but that doesn't mean we should equate these mysterious things.
I disagree, I would never say we can truly know everything, so I call those things mysteries. Actually, isn't that what you said? "Theres a bunch of stuff our mammlian brains cant cognatize" could you please clarify this point?

Our brains are organs; prone to the pitfalls and ineptness of other mammalian brains; we evolved to navigate a savana, it is no surprise we find it difficult to imagine things smaller than atoms or greater than galaxies, moving at crazy speeds; but just because our brains have their limits (which are every expanding with the aid of science and tecnology); doesn't to give anyone the right to say 'since things are mysterious to our brains, a God must have something to do with it'.

our best geus is it the same as what it was like before we were born(i.e nothing).
Well, thanks for clearing that up but I would argue that there are alot of people who would have other 'best guesses' out there too. You can't say that's the view of everyone.

NO, that is the best geuss. That's not up for arguement...

You believe the Bible is "a direct example of humans trying to reason" - but I agree with you! It is in no way a complete and totally valid text about the 'existance of God' - it is influenced, like all historical documents, by context and bias.

?Huh...tell that to an 18th centuary christian and you would have been burnt on the stake. People still to this day believe it is the direct word of God and should be followed to the letter. Its an early, albiet failed attempt at Science, Philosophy and Ontology.

On what basis? And why would it have anything to do with the Christian God?
damn, I thought I could just be taken at face value on this one but... I believe there is an afterlife because humans are capable of rationalism and creativity. They can think beyond themselves, they have a concept of history and posterity and can imagine what life would be like beyond their own experiences (empathy and imagination).
Just think about it - imagine dying... technically you can't experience it, but you can imagine it. I cannot see how all that energy can just stop in one moment of electrical synapse failure - we can always imagine the future. This is purely my own thinking, but tell me your own view? I'd be interested.

Wow this is a complete non sequitur, the abilities of our brains have really nothing to do with the substantiation of an after life. Not sure what your thinking here (can you perhaps elaborate).

Why can't you be content with saying 'I dont know';
I thinkyou'll find that I've been saying 'I don't know' throughout my whole response. I can't be content because, like you I hope, I an't stop asking questions.

You don't have to stop asking questions if you don't know something...its actualy quite the opposite; you are inherently encouraged to start asking questions when you don't know the answer to a problem. If you simply state that there is an after life and you are sure of this because you read it in a book written by a bronze age desert cult you are pretty much putting a stop to any open conversation about what might happen after we die.

I think your mixing up spirituality and religion...there definitley not the same thing...
Ah, now you've made a fair point. Depending upon your definitions, spirituality and religion might be different, but I don't want to talk semantics, its boring.
The Catholic Churches stance on the afterlife for example, is tht people in a state of grace will go to heaven. Interestingly, they don't define heaven as a physical place, physicalisation comes with the Second coming of Christ... I'm not sure about that last bit myself, but that's what the Cathoic Church believes. It's in Revelations apparently. Also, yes, the Church does say that you have no choice whether you go to Heaven or Hell... but how would they know. Maybe you could loiter at the pearly gates flicking cloud dust at St. Peter for awhile to ward off the boredom of eternal paradise. (It would be boring)

I find this quite incoherent, sorry.

it suggests that life is temporal, and should be made the most of in the here and now.
Lastly, thankyou for ruining my ending. I DO agree with you, but could you have at least left my nice ending alone? hahaha, nah. I agree with your point, but striving for fulfilment or, an afterlife, is what motivates some people. Hey, I could even be motivated by it deep down, I don't know. All I know is that my conception of an afterlife is probably not life at all, so there really is something special, unique and sacred about this one.

Sorry about the long post, but at least I got back my good ending! hahahaha

Yea I would argue striving for fulfilment in this life because it is our only life ismore motivating than any notion of an afterlife.

 

[Libby01P]

You want to elaborate ComingUpForAir?

ad infinitum, it's been nice talking with you. I must concede that you make some fair points, but it seems we are talking about the same things in most respects. We both agree that human experience is limited; that we can't know what's beyond our experiences; and that this life is more important than any afterlife.

However, I must disagree that I am putting my own context into the interpretation of the Bible or ancient ways of thinking. Interpreting it metaphorically is the only way to make sense of the Bible for me, and it is the method of some Christian theological circles, getting back to the original question. Like you say, it is easy to see the Bible as literal and incoherent rubbish, and it is in many places. I prefer not to read the Bible as the only way to understand the world, I think religion is largely based on experience and your own interpretation. So sue me, I'm just putting up one answer to the question posed by Cookie. I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to your ideas about ho Christians should respond.

you can chose any text (i.e a cook book) and draw a 'sacred, mystical, godish' interpretation you want;
lol, how postmodern.

just because our brains have their limits (which are every expanding with the aid of science and tecnology); doesn't to give anyone the right to say 'since things are mysterious to our brains, a God must have something to do with it'.
I agree. I didn't say a 'God' I said something beyond what we can conceive. Some people call that God.

That's not up for arguement...
okey dokey

tell that to an 18th centuary christian and you would have been burnt on the stake.
Most probably, but thankfully I don't live in that context. I probably wouldn't have thought the things I do back then anyway, seeing as it's a completely different context.

sorry about my incoherency. The bit about the Second Coming: the Christian Churches believe that Jesus will come some time in the future and will create the kingdom of God. That seems highly improbable to me, but there's another belief about the afterlife for you.

Also, Wow this is a complete non sequitur, the abilities of our brains have really nothing to do with the substantiation of an after life. Not sure what your thinking here (can you perhaps elaborate).
Yeah, incoherent. All I meant was that because our brains are limited, but humans have something (you may call it logic, creativity, human condition etc., some would call it spirit/soul etc. etc.) that allows them to have an awareness beyond themselves. It seems to me illogical that that simply stops when we die. I could be completely wrong of course, but then it won't really matter once I'm dead.

I've just had a thought: This debate is completely null and void because I'd say most, if not all, people would agree that this life is the most important, not an afterlife.
So, thanks for the debate, ad infinitum. It was fun, and distracting.

 

[Teclis]

Ignore ad infinitum... I do...

He's an egotistical bigot with a superiority complex...

 

[ad infinitum]

Ignore ad infinitum... I do...

He's an egotistical bigot with a superiority complex...

Shouldn't you be in a fucking church bowing to your master slave boy?

 

[Teclis]

Shouldn't you be in a fucking church bowing to your master slave boy?

I love how when I neg rep you for being a git who uses foul language It thanks me

But seriously... wtf once again at your inane posting.

1) It's not Sunday you git

2) The only thing I am a slave to is Sin... I choose to be saved... You've heard of choice right?

3) Your language just proves my point all the more.

 

[ad infinitum]

I love how when I neg rep you for being a git who uses foul language It thanks me

But seriously... wtf once again at your inane posting.

1) It's not Sunday you git

2) The only thing I am a slave to is Sin... I choose to be saved... You've heard of choice right?

3) Your language just proves my point all the more.

If God asked you to kill your children you would gleefully comply (As seen with Abraham/Isaac). Nauseating stuff. You are a slave, and proud of your chains. You are the property of your master, the plaything. So be it, but you must keep me out of it. So yea, keep the voices in your head to yourself, because no one else is interested in your pathetic delusions.

 

[Libby01P]

All I wanted was an intelligent conversation...

not

Is this what always happens?

 

[ad infinitum]

You want to elaborate ComingUpForAir?

ad infinitum, it's been nice talking with you. I must concede that you make some fair points, but it seems we are talking about the same things in most respects. We both agree that human experience is limited; that we can't know what's beyond our experiences; and that this life is more important than any afterlife. .

I don't know if we 'can't know', I would be more tempted to say we don't know at the moment. But yea.

However, I must disagree that I am putting my own context into the interpretation of the Bible or ancient ways of thinking. Interpreting it metaphorically is the only way to make sense of the Bible for me, and it is the method of some Christian theological circles, getting back to the original question. .

Yea those circles are doing as you do; projecting their own external wisdom, values and morality onto the bible.

Like you say, it is easy to see the Bible as literal and incoherent rubbish, and it is in many places..

Yea this is why is should be ignored (or atleast put in the same catgory as say Greek Mythology), there are far more sophisticated conversations going on about morality, values and ethics in the modern, scientific world.

I prefer not to read the Bible as the only way to understand the world, I think religion is largely based on experience and your own interpretation...

No, religion is based on the teachings and doctrines of a religion. One may 'adjust' these base doctrines according to thier external values (as you do), but I am argueing that it is this religous base which is the problem (as it can justify horrible things).

So sue me, I'm just putting up one answer to the question posed by Cookie. I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to your ideas about ho Christians should respond....

A christian should respond a certain way; because they are by definition bound by the teachings of Christianity (i.e The Bible). Just because you have moved away from the The Bible, doesn't affirm that Christianity is any truer; it is in fact just you cherry picking parts of Christian teaching that fit in to your pre-existing external worldview. The renders the idea the The Bible comes before a moral worldview void, and hence the entire Christian doctrine is void.

you can chose any text (i.e a cook book) and draw a 'sacred, mystical, godish' interpretation you want;
lol, how postmodern.....

?you can...nothing to do with post modernism

just because our brains have their limits (which are every expanding with the aid of science and tecnology); doesn't to give anyone the right to say 'since things are mysterious to our brains, a God must have something to do with it'.
I agree. I didn't say a 'God' I said something beyond what we can conceive. Some people call that God.

This is misleading; there is no point using the word God- when it has nothing to do with a already established idea. You debase the English langauge; you may aswell use the word 'god' to describe 'love', 'people' or 'furniture'.

tell that to an 18th centuary christian and you would have been burnt on the stake.
Most probably, but thankfully I don't live in that context. I probably wouldn't have thought the things I do back then anyway, seeing as it's a completely different context..

Yea what does this tell you about what is really influencing your wordview; The Bible (which the Inquisitor no doubt read obsessivley) or secular modernity? (Hint: its the latter).

sorry about my incoherency. The bit about the Second Coming: the Christian Churches believe that Jesus will come some time in the future and will create the kingdom of God. That seems highly improbable to me, but there's another belief about the afterlife for you.

mmmk

Also, Wow this is a complete non sequitur, the abilities of our brains have really nothing to do with the substantiation of an after life. Not sure what your thinking here (can you perhaps elaborate).
Yeah, incoherent. All I meant was that because our brains are limited, but humans have something (you may call it logic, creativity, human condition etc., some would call it spirit/soul etc. etc.) that allows them to have an awareness beyond themselves. It seems to me illogical that that simply stops when we die. I could be completely wrong of course, but then it won't really matter once I'm dead. .

Sorry to say but you are just plain wrong on this. I really reccomend you read the last chapter of Sam Harris's End of Faith for a really good break down at what your getting at (Its a seriously good book).

I've just had a thought: This debate is completely null and void because I'd say most, if not all, people would agree that this life is the most important, not an afterlife.
.

Definatley not all; just look at sucicide bombers; which life do you think they value more?

 

[Libby01P]

sigh. goodbye ad infinitum.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

sigh. goodbye ad infinitum.

yea..you and teclis lost, failed, etc
argument has been won