Accounting Job Prospects? (2 Viewers)

[fishfingerz]

hey everyone,
so i went to the career expo on last friday and spoke with someone from ernst and young and he said that about 2000 or so applicants apply each year, 50 get an interview, an about a dozen get accepted. i know there are a hundred other firms out there but there has to be a many more number of applicants. accounting is something i have recently considered as a career choice so don't know much details but what exactly are the job prospects like? even with a CA is it difficult to obtain a high paying job? also the guy from ernst and young said that they look at not only your interview performance but also your atar. and does the chance of landing a 'good' job depend on what uni you graduate from? i mean, what is the difference between a MQ graduate in accounting major, as opposed to a UNSW graduate?

thanks for any input

 

[theaussieinhk]

Hey Fishfingerz,

I did an internship with a Big 4 accounting firm this year and I received an early graduate offer. I am from Macquarie.

What the Ernst and Young rep told you is true but it depends on what division you are applying for. Audit usually takes the most, around 40 people and Tax, Advisory etc take less people. The Actuarial division take the least people - in my firm only 2 Actuaries were taken. Consulting took a handful of people.

Job prospects - for an Accountant... depends on what your aiming for. For big accounting firms it is getting tough (simply because the young accountants that didn't get a job during the GFC worked in small firms, studied honours/masters and are now applying for graduate positions in big firms). Also because the number of local and international students studying Accounting is increasing. If your looking for small firms - it depends on connections because the work you do should not be too hard, but because of the size of the firm they need to like you. You can alway's pursue a career that is not related to accounting altogether. Overall, I think the job prospects are hard, but not everyone gets their dream job. But I like to believe that if your good - your good and you will get a job.

Obtaining a CA - means higher salary. But it depends if you got your CA while working for a big 4 firm or not. Also, Big 4 accounting firms pay less than banks and other larger companies. That is why a lot of people in big 4 firms quit after they get their CA. How do you define a "high salary?"

Does it depend on what uni you go to? - Not really - if you have good grades, work experience and extra curricular activities you will be given equal chances at a big 4 accounting firm. At my firm, there was a lot of Macquarie people that I meet in tutorials/ lectures. UNSW and Macquarie made up most of the majority of the interns. A lot of the people guessed that I was from Macquarie because there are so many Macquarie people working in the firm.

Cheers

 

[Vagabond]

Those numbers sound a bit warped.

Applicants for any one drive are probably < 1000, I'd guess closer to 500-600. Between grads, tranees and lateral hires they'd be taking at least a hundred people a year.

Otherwise, EY is an exception, probably because they've lost comparatively more business between the Big4 in ~ 2009

 

[robocat]

According to a lady from HR at a big accounting firm, there were 1000's of grad applications this year and hundreds (although I don't know how many) of internship applications.

 

[fishfingerz]

Hey Fishfingerz,

I did an internship with a Big 4 accounting firm this year and I received an early graduate offer. I am from Macquarie.

What the Ernst and Young rep told you is true but it depends on what division you are applying for. Audit usually takes the most, around 40 people and Tax, Advisory etc take less people. The Actuarial division take the least people - in my firm only 2 Actuaries were taken. Consulting took a handful of people.

Job prospects - for an Accountant... depends on what your aiming for. For big accounting firms it is getting tough (simply because the young accountants that didn't get a job during the GFC worked in small firms, studied honours/masters and are now applying for graduate positions in big firms). Also because the number of local and international students studying Accounting is increasing. If your looking for small firms - it depends on connections because the work you do should not be too hard, but because of the size of the firm they need to like you. You can alway's pursue a career that is not related to accounting altogether. Overall, I think the job prospects are hard, but not everyone gets their dream job. But I like to believe that if your good - your good and you will get a job.

Obtaining a CA - means higher salary. But it depends if you got your CA while working for a big 4 firm or not. Also, Big 4 accounting firms pay less than banks and other larger companies. That is why a lot of people in big 4 firms quit after they get their CA. How do you define a "high salary?"

Does it depend on what uni you go to? - Not really - if you have good grades, work experience and extra curricular activities you will be given equal chances at a big 4 accounting firm. At my firm, there was a lot of Macquarie people that I meet in tutorials/ lectures. UNSW and Macquarie made up most of the majority of the interns. A lot of the people guessed that I was from Macquarie because there are so many Macquarie people working in the firm.

Cheers

thanks so much for the info, theaussieinhk, really appreciate it. although i am still a bit puzzled, as my research has been limited having only recently decided to pursue accounting.
so you do your internship after you finish your bachelors degree? And a lot of my classmates wanting to do accounting are applying for cadetships, does that really help in landing a decent job (salary: above 80k)? i have no idea what that is anyway. and how does a CA actually benefit you?

so simply, this is the process of being a successful accounant, right?:
1. graduate from a bachelors degree with a major in accounting.
2. can apply for a cadetship first year of uni
3. during uni do plenty of extra-curriculars to boost your chances
4. after graduating, apply for an internship at a firm, meanwhile apply to
become a CA.

so then what? can you please help me out? a lot might be wrong with this..

 

[seremify007]

You do your internship in your penultimate (i.e. 2nd last) year at uni. E.g. in a 3 year commerce degree say between 2011 and 2013, you would do the internship in December 2012/January 2013. If not successful, you can apply for a grad job early in 2013 (i.e. Feb/March). Then when you finish uni at the end of 2013, you can start a graduate position presumably in December 2013/January 2014. CA is usually not commenced until about six months in depending on each firm (my firm for example does not allow new grads to undertake CA immediately).

Cadetships are primarily aimed at year 12 students but some firms will offer positions for 1st year uni students if they need more staff.

ps. I agree with Vagabond that your numbers sound very warped.

 

[fishfingerz]

You do your internship in your penultimate (i.e. 2nd last) year at uni. E.g. in a 3 year commerce degree say between 2011 and 2013, you would do the internship in December 2012/January 2013. If not successful, you can apply for a grad job early in 2013 (i.e. Feb/March). Then when you finish uni at the end of 2013, you can start a graduate position presumably in December 2013/January 2014. CA is usually not commenced until about six months in depending on each firm (my firm for example does not allow new grads to undertake CA immediately).

Cadetships are primarily aimed at year 12 students but some firms will offer positions for 1st year uni students if they need more staff.

ps. I agree with Vagabond that your numbers sound very warped.

hey thanks for the info. just one more question, what exactly are cadetships and how exactly do they help you? also, do you need to do it? what happens if you don't..?

 

[theaussieinhk]

Hi Guys,

The numbers I mentioned was in regards to the number of Interns my firm took this year. Obviously bigger cities like Sydney and Melbourne take in more Interns and Grad's compared to smaller cities. Also, the number of Graduate positions and Internship position varies (ie if the interns get offered an early graduate position or reject the offer. Also depends on the economy) and also different firms take in different numbers (as one division may need more grads than another).

Agree with Seremify007. If you don't get Cadetship -> apply for Internship -> apply for graduate position.

Cadetships is when you work for the firm (usually work full time and study part time). It's advantage is that you are most likely to be offered a full time job (though not guaranteed). Disadvantage, is you will miss out on uni life. You will also grow up much faster (ie mold into a more corporate kinda person - I have seen this happen).

CA - its a post graduate diploma. It gets you to be professionally qualified as an accountant. It is also hard to get (much harder than uni and goes much deeper). Also, by the time you finish your CA you should have 2-3 years of experience = this means higher salary.

$80,000 as a first job? Not as an Accountant. If your going into Investment Banking or working as an Actuary, then yes.

$80,000 as an accountant in 3-5 years and you are CA qualified (depending on where you work) sounds reasonable.

 

[seremify007]

hey thanks for the info. just one more question, what exactly are cadetships and how exactly do they help you? also, do you need to do it? what happens if you don't..?

You might wanna research this on the ICAA website since you sound like you haven't got much of an idea about this. Basically a cadetship is a full time job with additional leave/allowance/entitlements to help you with your uni studies for part of the time. Remember fundamentally it's a job which is in the same field as your studies- and that's why it helps you because you get career progression, as well as the salary and all the benefits of full time work.

You don't need to do a cadetship to become an accountant. Plenty of other opportunities out there; it's just a good way to get into this career path if you're really into the idea.

Cadetships is when you work for the firm (usually work full time and study part time). It's advantage is that you are most likely to be offered a full time job (though not guaranteed). Disadvantage, is you will miss out on uni life. You will also grow up much faster (ie mold into a more corporate kinda person - I have seen this happen).

CA - its a post graduate diploma. It gets you to be professionally qualified as an accountant. It is also hard to get (much harder than uni and goes much deeper). Also, by the time you finish your CA you should have 2-3 years of experience = this means higher salary.

$80,000 as a first job? Not as an Accountant. If your going into Investment Banking or working as an Actuary, then yes.

$80,000 as an accountant in 3-5 years and you are CA qualified (depending on where you work) sounds reasonable.

The way I've always seen it is that a normal Commerce or Business degree is 3 years full time (3 years x 8 subjects each year) whereas a cadetship merely stretches one of those years into two years of part time (i.e. 2 years x 8 subjects + 2 years x 4 subjects). SO really, you stand to lose that one year equivalent of full time bumming around uni... but instead you get work experience in a relevant field, the opportunity to score a grad job, potential to get paid just for promising to work for the firm in the future, plus it's a job (rather than you having to go to KFC and whatnot) which offers you additional leave/etc so you can study... sounds like a decent deal to me.

FYI there are a few accounting jobs in ops/finance at various commercial banks/etc in the mid 70's now for fresh grads. But questionable if that's the best place for you to go if you are new to the industry and don't really have much practical experience yet are seeking development.

 

[the-derivative]

With me, the way I see it is...

If you're planning to do straight out commerce, grab any cadetship when you have the chance.
If you're planning to do a combined degree (e.g. Comm/Law, Comm/Science), then you shouldn't do a cadetship.

 

[Rosenbaum]

Hi everyone,

It seems like a lot of you in this thread are knowledgeable on recruitment in the accounting industry.

I was wondering if someone could have a look at my situation and tell me my chances on scoring a good job in the future.

I'm currently a 2nd year University of New England (rural NSW university, alright accounting reputation) student and am doing a Bachelor of Commerce (Accounting) degree with majors in Professional Accounting and Applied Finance. My units in the university is accredited with ICCA. I have a cadetship at WHK (5th largest accounting firm in Australia according to BRW top 200 firms) and have been working in the office while studying for the past year and a half.

I have been active with volunteer work and extra curricular activities but my grades have only been scraping a Credit average.

I don't think I want to stay in the country forever and was hoping to move to the city. Transferring from my office to the WHK Sydney office is a possibility but I was wondering on my chances on scoring a Grad job at one of the big 4 firms?

My university is not in the Group of 8 and I think it might be the thing that drags my chances down along with my only Credit average grades.. But surely having the cadetship as experience helps? I think I can get straight Ds in my final year if I try.

So what do you guys think my chances are on getting into one of the Big 4 firms in a city?

 

[17028354]

are you physically attractive?


that will boost your chances.

since you're from the country, i'd assume you're of anglosaxon heritage?

that will boost your chances.

you're a girl?

that will boost your chances.

 

[Jonathandavid]

I was wondering if someone could have a look at my situation and tell me my chances on scoring a good job in the future.

How long is a piece of string?

I think that 17028354 is a little cynical, but probably not very far off the mark.

A credit average isn't flash, but it's important to remember that firms don't just recruit on marks alone. Your volunteer work and extra-curricular will put you in pretty good standing.

In terms of your University, in my personal circle of friends a lot of people went to big 4 firms or middle tier that didn't graduate from the Group of Eight. So, anecdotal evidence suggests it doesn't really seem to matter. What you could do is send an email to the firms you'd like to work for and see what they are looking for.

 

[Rosenbaum]

Yeah I think I will send an email to the firm's recruiting staff to get an idea on their selection preferences. I just wanted to get an idea on the kind of graduate quality the big 4 hires to figure out if I can get hopeful about it at my current state. It's motivational to hear that you know people who have got into the Big 4 without a degree from the G8.

Also wanted to know if me doing a cadetship at a mid-tier firm would give me a nice leg up on other applicants.

 

[17028354]

Yeah I think I will send an email to the firm's recruiting staff to get an idea on their selection preferences. I just wanted to get an idea on the kind of graduate quality the big 4 hires to figure out if I can get hopeful about it at my current state. It's motivational to hear that you know people who have got into the Big 4 without a degree from the G8.

Also wanted to know if me doing a cadetship at a mid-tier firm would give me a nice leg up on other applicants.

sure, sounds good.

btw just out of curiosity, why do you want to come to the big city?

 

[Rosenbaum]

sure, sounds good.

btw just out of curiosity, why do you want to come to the big city?

There's just more to do of everything in the city. I've always associated 'success' with a suit living in a Sydney apartment for some reason. Would also like the opportunity to travel around the world for work, and that's only really offered to those who work in a Big 4 firm as far as i know.

 

[17028354]

There's just more to do of everything in the city. I've always associated 'success' with a suit living in a Sydney apartment for some reason. Would also like the opportunity to travel around the world for work, and that's only really offered to those who work in a Big 4 firm as far as i know.

well the travel thing is good, so you'd want to work in a specialization that allows that.

as for the success part, sure.

but have you factored in the cost of living? particularly in regards to housing.

how about other issues such as traffic, and pollution?

I don't mean anything from the above,
it's just different because alot of people i talk to talk about moving to smaller cities

 

[Rosenbaum]

Cost of living and travel in Sydney is ridiculous I know, but I'll hate myself if I don't at least try it.

Can anyone elaborate on if doing a cadetship at a mid-tier firm during uni study would provide me a leg up on other big 4 grad applicants?

 

[17028354]

Cost of living and travel in Sydney is ridiculous I know, but I'll hate myself if I don't at least try it.

Can anyone elaborate on if doing a cadetship at a mid-tier firm during uni study would provide me a leg up on other big 4 grad applicants?

yes experience will always be beneficial

 

[CharlieB]

Cost of living and travel in Sydney is ridiculous I know, but I'll hate myself if I don't at least try it.

Can anyone elaborate on if doing a cadetship at a mid-tier firm during uni study would provide me a leg up on other big 4 grad applicants?

A credit average + midtier experience is more than enough to get a grad position. The big 4 will understand the fact you have less time for extracurriculars given you work fulltime.

The question is - why do you want to leave WHK? Seems like a decent firm and youre guaranteed a grad position anyway...