Accounting vs Investment Banking (2 Viewers)

[ks21]

I've always thought GSJBW had the strongest IB division internationally. I think I read it in some article a while back.



hahaha if IB was as cruisy as what they make it out to be in that website, I'll apply for IB straight away.

11pm my ass lol

You call that cruisy, holy shit, what kindof life is that? You'll prob end up as a bachelor and even if you had time to find someone to marry, all she will do is spend all your money and sleep with your neighbour while you work late nights, lol.

 

[turtleface]

You call that cruisy, holy shit, what kindof life is that? You'll prob end up as a bachelor and even if you had time to find someone to marry, all she will do is spend all your money and sleep with your neighbour while you work late nights, lol.

lol I meant it is cruisy in comparison with reality, where sometimes people go without sleep for 3 days, where people regularly work up to 4am.

I'd say 11pm as done by that guy is VERY good. Even audit and tax during busy times can be potentially 11pm.

 

[frinkanator]

You accounting cunts make it sound like if you're an IB'er then you're one for life, slaving 100 hours weeks in caves feeding your kids and cheating wife. typical mindset of the profession that does exactly that but just on lesser pay and hours.
at the end of the day it's what you do with your hard earned money, and using the financial brain god gave you. I've met many ex-IB'ers who did the hardyards, only to set themselves for agressive investment in the property, stock, forex, treasury markets. now they're on easy street selling their own strategies and many are barely 30. I've been trading stocks and derivatives since I was 17, and learned tons so far. hopefully i'll get to follow in their footsteps.

you accounting girly men can balance your ledgers and audit your "social lives" until you're 50. by the sounds of it a lot of you accounting top guns on here would rather have the 40 hour weeks so you can sip cocktails with your 'girlfriend' for an extra few hours.
myself, i'd rather work my ass off in IB while i'm young for a few years earning >twice you pansies dream of, getting the high-level experience and industry connections, gear myself up with investments, start my own firm, retire young and spend the rest of my life on my yacht eating the unused pussy you left behind. It's not about working for your money, it's about making your money work for you. you big 4 'big boys' can live your life rising the ranks to become top auditor. your mortal money just feeds those at the top.

As for the original debate, I agree it's easier to migrate from a big4 accounting background to an IB one, and not as easy vice versa. (who the hell in their right mind would try to move from IB to accounting anyway???) the firm will provide all the training needed, as long as you have experienced the processes, and no doubt cpa/ca's in the big 4 have that exposure. that said not all accountants can move into trading. you must require the psychological skill, endurance and instinct, as well as the right attitude to make the cut. that is hardly anywhere to be found pushing around financial statements and counting widgets. put simply, bean counters simply provide pieces of paper. IB's use those pieces of paper and their brains to turn them into money.

Seriously you anal uni grads are full of yourselves in academia and gossip. go out and meet some truely successful people and see which is better. instead of going by the story of your weird uncle who turned into a vampire after setting foot in an IB. what utter BS. and if you take those IB horror stories to heart then go back to pushing papers. because you weak minded people obviously aren't made for the job.
I don't entirely agree with csmg, but I understand where he's coming from when he calls you naive. those successful in the industry would find this forum highly entertaining. you sound like a bunch of know-all preppy teenage girls bitching about how big your boobs are, when really none of you are bigger than a B cup. I look forward to laughing at more of your posts.

btw I'm only 19 in 1st-year, but light years ahead of you intellectually. :uhhuh:

cheers.

 

[ks21]

You accounting cunts make it sound like if you're an IB'er then you're one for life, slaving 100 hours weeks in caves feeding your kids and cheating wife. typical mindset of the profession that does exactly that but just on lesser pay and hours.
at the end of the day it's what you do with your hard earned money, and using the financial brain god gave you. I've met many ex-IB'ers who did the hardyards, only to set themselves for agressive investment in the property, stock, forex, treasury markets. now they're on easy street selling their own strategies and many are barely 30. I've been trading stocks and derivatives since I was 17, and learned tons so far. hopefully i'll get to follow in their footsteps.

you accounting girly men can balance your ledgers and audit your "social lives" until you're 50. by the sounds of it a lot of you accounting top guns on here would rather have the 40 hour weeks so you can sip cocktails with your 'girlfriend' for an extra few hours.
myself, i'd rather work my ass off in IB while i'm young for a few years earning >twice you pansies dream of, getting the high-level experience and industry connections, gear myself up with investments, start my own firm, retire young and spend the rest of my life on my yacht eating the unused pussy you left behind. It's not about working for your money, it's about making your money work for you. you big 4 'big boys' can live your life rising the ranks to become top auditor. your mortal money just feeds those at the top.

As for the original debate, I agree it's easier to migrate from a big4 accounting background to an IB one, and not as easy vice versa. (who the hell in their right mind would try to move from IB to accounting anyway???) the firm will provide all the training needed, as long as you have experienced the processes, and no doubt cpa/ca's in the big 4 have that exposure. that said not all accountants can move into trading. you must require the psychological skill, endurance and instinct, as well as the right attitude to make the cut. that is hardly anywhere to be found pushing around financial statements and counting widgets. put simply, bean counters simply provide pieces of paper. IB's use those pieces of paper and their brains to turn them into money.

Seriously you anal uni grads are full of yourselves in academia and gossip. go out and meet some truely successful people and see which is better. instead of going by the story of your weird uncle who turned into a vampire after setting foot in an IB. what utter BS. and if you take those IB horror stories to heart then go back to pushing papers. because you weak minded people obviously aren't made for the job.
I don't entirely agree with csmg, but I understand where he's coming from when he calls you naive. those successful in the industry would find this forum highly entertaining. you sound like a bunch of know-all preppy teenage girls bitching about how big your boobs are, when really none of you are bigger than a B cup. I look forward to laughing at more of your posts.

btw I'm only 19 in 1st-year, but light years ahead of you intellectually. :uhhuh:

cheers.

btw, i dont do accounting.
lol, but yeh, I know I was makin a bit of a generalisation, however, I don't think all these stories about no social life, etc, are unfounded (I have met IBers and thats the general impression i get). I can't see myself doing IB and having a social life, if its that hectic, but thats just me. If you have a plan like yours and are committed to sticking to it, then thats awesome, good luck.

I agree with your "make money work for you" (did you get that from "Rich Dad Poor Dad" books?), my ambitions in that regard are somewhat similar, retire early, investing, etc., but not everything goes to plan. I used to trade shares during year 11 and 12 (yeh, you do learn a lot), but I gave it rest, during uni, lol, just sticking with theoretical trading games, uni is pretty jam packed.

btw I'm only 19 in 2nd year, and don't think your light years ahead of us intellectually .

 

[frinkanator]

btw, i dont do accounting.
lol, but yeh, I know I was makin a bit of a generalisation, however, I don't think all these stories about no social life, etc, are unfounded (I have met IBers and thats the general impression i get). I can't see myself doing IB and having a social life, if its that hectic, but thats just me. If you have a plan like yours and are committed to sticking to it, then thats awesome, good luck.

well what truely consists of a social life when you're 21-25? getting pissed on weeknights? clubbing til the wee hours? I'm sorry, but those type of people are hardly on the way to becoming successful. and since when did weekends disappear? personally I'd rather sacrifice the fake fun for some years to make some $$$, then go nuts for the rest of my time on earth. short term pain for long term pleasure... or short term pleasure for long term pain?

I agree with your "make money work for you" (did you get that from "Rich Dad Poor Dad" books?), my ambitions in that regard are somewhat similar, retire early, investing, etc., but not everything goes to plan. I used to trade shares during year 11 and 12 (yeh, you do learn a lot), but I gave it rest, during uni, lol, just sticking with theoretical trading games, uni is pretty jam packed.

nope never read those books. but I've read a tonne of investing books like them, been to a surplus of seminars, and met lots of successful investors. yep uni students/traders are very rare, it takes a lot of committment. definitely not for the faint hearted and lazy.

unfortunately a lot of youngins like us like to take the so-called funner easy way, without realising until they're 50, fat, bald and fathering kids by working they're arses off. and only realising then it's time to get into the property or stock market. I've seen it too many times.

btw I'm only 19 in 2nd year, and don't think your light years ahead of us intellectually .

well actually I am.

 

[ND]

and since when did weekends disappear?

Pretty much as soon as you set foot in the IBD of a BB.

 

[lizbon]

No one is disputing IB's are paid well and they can set themselves up for life early on and retire early, the knowledge and the confidence you gain from working in IB would definitely be invaluable. Of course you can leave IB early and move onto something better as well, e.g. management consulting or fund management

However, can you not understand that people make career paths decisions that are partly dependent on lifestyle choices? You're only 20 once and some people would rather settle for a moderate wage in exchange of work/life balance (they can still make their money work for them, you're not the only one who's been investing since high school)

Alot of people are making generalisation on the intellect and knowledge of accountants (esp auditors here), i'm sure there are dipshits that work as auditors but there are also very smart people that work in big 4 firm that know plenty about investment strategy/modelling and derivatives.

The bit about academia and gossip is just bullshit, you think students in their penultimate and final yr of uni havent taken the time to research career paths or talk to ex and current IB's or management consultants? Maybe when you're in first year, all your friends are clueless about majors/career paths.

 

[jpr333]

Yeah frinkanator talk it up mate. Get back to us in a few years after you've worked in an IB then make those same statements. For now all you are is an HSC pleb who did ok and enrolled in uni, you cannot even fathom working the hours those guys do OK? And take your perceived intellectual superiority elsewhere; and you guys in agreement with this idiot (define naive please do) the same goes for you. Just so far off the mark it's not funny. See if your ambition to be 'successful' (working in an IB defines successful now huh?) outweighs your urge to live a reasonably enjoyable and balanced life...

 

[Conspirocy]

Seriously you anal uni grads are full of yourselves in academia and gossip. go out and meet some truely successful people and see which is better. instead of going by the story of your weird uncle who turned into a vampire after setting foot in an IB. what utter BS. and if you take those IB horror stories to heart then go back to pushing papers. because you weak minded people obviously aren't made for the job.

btw I'm only 19 in 1st-year, but light years ahead of you intellectually. :uhhuh:

cheers.

mate seriously, no need to be rude like that. I did not say my uncle was weird I said he changed. Further, if you had half the skill that he had you would be successful. Like I'm not going to get goaded into saying who he is, or where he works.

You need a perspective check, you think you are going to do all of what you said by the time you are 30. Mounting an argument that is basically "I'm smarter because I say so" is not really worth a response.

Everyone puts accounting down, you know what I really couldn't care what anyone thinks. This is a pretty pointless topic, and the minute you try to talk about anything rationally you have people trying to act smart. Either way there will be 20 people who say what I say is crap, and another 20 peope who say what i say isnt.

lest look at the figures

Here are the IB jobs from what I understand
Financial Dealers and Brokers
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=3212

Finance Advisor
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=3213

Here are the accounting areas

Accountant
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=2211

Auditors
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=2212

Finance Manager
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=1211

I'll even throw in economist for interest
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=2522

Now okay sure people will get higher and lower, but overall whats better. Now unless everyone is going to be the best, i think its time to start looking at something called the mean.

 

[phrred]

i agree with frinkanator to a certain extent in that u have to make your money work for you.
If you work for an IB, say you earn 200k a year for 10 years, sounds like a lot but thats only 2million dollars before tax which would equate to 1.3? or so after tax. 1.3 mil over 10 years isnt gonna get you anywhere to live a high life.

if u want to be successful u need to trade on stocks, derivatives or property or start and run a successful business- you cant just work for Macq bank or PWC ur whole life - use them as experience and networking

 

[ND]

Now unless everyone is going to be the best, i think its time to start looking at something called the mean.

The mean? Average annual earnings last year for all Goldman Sachs employees (world wide) was over $500K USD. Not bad considering how many mailroom/PA/back office staff there are. (though the distribution is obviously right skewed)

If you work for an IB, say you earn 200k a year for 10 years, sounds like a lot but thats only 2million dollars before tax which would equate to 1.3? or so after tax. 1.3 mil over 10 years isnt gonna get you anywhere to live a high life.

200K for 10 years? The pay will only be below 200K for the first few years (and at the end of the 10 years it will be *alot* higher than 200K).

if u want to be successful u need to trade on stocks, derivatives or property or start and run a successful business- you cant just work for Macq bank or PWC ur whole life

Successful based on what criteria?


Anyway who cares?? Some people prefer accounting, some prefer IB. They are two very different professions...

 

[Conspirocy]

i agree with frinkanator to a certain extent in that u have to make your money work for you.
If you work for an IB, say you earn 200k a year for 10 years, sounds like a lot but thats only 2million dollars before tax which would equate to 1.3? or so after tax. 1.3 mil over 10 years isnt gonna get you anywhere to live a high life.

if u want to be successful u need to trade on stocks, derivatives or property or start and run a successful business- you cant just work for Macq bank or PWC ur whole life - use them as experience and networking

good post.

lol take into account from the 1.3 that u have to spend money to survive lol

i dont agree with frinkanator when he implies that people from IB's are the only people who try to make money on the side with their own money. Like its pretty common sense, sure what who and what you know, your work experiance will help. But again that point has been made with the view that accountants obviously have no business sense at all. I cant agree with that.

 

[Conspirocy]

The mean? Average annual earnings last year for all Goldman Sachs employees (world wide) was over $500K USD. Not bad considering how many mailroom/PA/back office staff there are. (though the distribution is obviously right skewed)

Look let me put it this way, those firms employ 'the best' uni grads. Also there are a limited number of places to actually work. My point is how many people actually make it, and how many people wanted to/i guess we are really saying majored in finance with a view for IB.

Again, ive put pretty transparent figures up. I mean before i make this next point, i'd just say if you read the websites i just posted, you would see the large range of jobs you do in accounting (cause someone called accountants glorified auditors)

Now, okay I know for a fact that most employees of investment banks, say for example JP Morgan might get their bonuses in $US. So thats a positive for Ib that no one has said yet.

Anyway, what i want to say is this, with what you just posted thats a global figure, and not relevant to the Australian market. I'm pretty sure that you get paid bonuses based on performance, so there is a limited number of opportunites in the Aus market to make money. Also factor in the position of the firm you mentioned in the Australian market. Like what if someone got the revenue for all the individual PWC firms converted to $US and added them, then divided by the global workforce. It would not be significantly behind.

How about this figure "Goldman Sachs cheif executive Hank Paulson may have been paid about $US37 million (about $48 million) last year --> this was 0.6 % of Glodman Sachs Market Value

Alan Moss's 21.2 million package represents a much bigger percentage of macquarie banks market value"

sorry but not everyone gets the money, and no one ever disputed the pay you could possibly get.

If you went to a finance lecture and took a survey, they would probably all want to work in IB. If you look at where they ended up, it would not be IB, most wouldnt even get in.

How about this
"Macquarie recruits around 150 graduates and over 80 undergraduates a year from a wide range of degrees, including:

Accounting
Actuarial studies
Combined law
Commerce / business
Computer science
Econmics They spelt economics wrong pretty funny http://www.macquarie.com.au/au/about_macquarie/careers/graduate_undergraduate_candidates.htm
Engineering
Finance
Human resources
Information Technology
Mathematics
Property
Science

"

thats 230 jobs at one investment bank and not all of them are actually investment banking ---> how many people study finance at university in Australia?

 

[ND]

Look let me put it this way, those firms employ 'the best' uni grads. Also there are a limited number of places to actually work. My point is how many people actually make it, and how many people wanted to/i guess we are really saying majored in finance with a view for IB.

That is irrelevant. You commented on the average pay for an investment banker - i provided the average pay for *anyone* at Goldman Sachs (if you look at the average pay for a banker at Goldman, it would definately be at least a few million US).

Anyway, what i want to say is this, with what you just posted thats a global figure, and not relevant to the Australian market.

Although the pay is a bit higher in the UK and US, the difference is not going to make the average figure for an australian employee unimpressive. Also, it's not *all* that difficult to transfer over to the US or UK.

Also factor in the position of the firm you mentioned in the Australian market.

The firm is around 3rd in terms of revenue over here, but there are also less employees than at the top 2 revenue generators. We can't say which bank has the highest average remuneration. Any this is irrelevant - i mentioned Goldman because that was the only bank i knew the figure for.

How about this figure "Goldman Sachs cheif executive Hank Paulson may have been paid about $US37 million (about $48 million) last year --> this was 0.6 % of Glodman Sachs Market Value

Alan Moss's 21.2 million package represents a much bigger percentage of macquarie banks market value"

What's your point?

sorry but not everyone gets the money, and no one ever disputed the pay you could possibly get.

Again, you mentioned averages, and that's what i provided. Not everyone gets the money? No, but the bankers sure as hell do.

If you went to a finance lecture and took a survey, they would probably all want to work in IB. If you look at where they ended up, it would not be IB, most wouldnt even get in.

So what? The question was not about the average pay of someone who wants to get into IB, it was about the average pay of someone *in* IB.

How about this
"Macquarie recruits around 150 graduates and over 80 undergraduates a year from a wide range of degrees, including:

Accounting
Actuarial studies
Combined law
Commerce / business
Computer science
Econmics They spelt economics wrong pretty funny http://www.macquarie.com.au/au/about...candidates.htm
Engineering
Finance
Human resources
Information Technology
Mathematics
Property
Science

"

thats 230 jobs at one investment bank and not all of them are actually investment banking ---> how many people study finance at university in Australia?

Again, what does this have to do with anything?


Anyway i'm going out to get drunk; enjoying my freedom while i can...

 

[turtleface]

well what truely consists of a social life when you're 21-25? getting pissed on weeknights? clubbing til the wee hours? I'm sorry, but those type of people are hardly on the way to becoming successful. and since when did weekends disappear? personally I'd rather sacrifice the fake fun for some years to make some $$$, then go nuts for the rest of my time on earth. short term pain for long term pleasure... or short term pleasure for long term pain?

True, I think I would rather earn more rather than have a "fake" social life. I mean, true, I'd rather double my salary for the sake of some crappy friday night drinks and boring weekends. But I think you can only say that frinkanator because you haven't experienced what its like to go flat out. Imagine attending uni 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. Can you handle it? What if I gave you $100,000 to do it?

In my opinion, welcome to the Investment Banking dilemma.

Yeah frinkanator talk it up mate. Get back to us in a few years after you've worked in an IB then make those same statements. For now all you are is an HSC pleb who did ok and enrolled in uni, you cannot even fathom working the hours those guys do OK? And take your perceived intellectual superiority elsewhere; and you guys in agreement with this idiot (define naive please do) the same goes for you. Just so far off the mark it's not funny. See if your ambition to be 'successful' (working in an IB defines successful now huh?) outweighs your urge to live a reasonably enjoyable and balanced life...

I agree.

I've been trading stocks and derivatives since I was 17, and learned tons so far.

shows how rigorous the selection criteria is for traders lol :rofl: . So you've been a trader since Yr 11 or so yeah?

Alot of people are making generalisation on the intellect and knowledge of accountants (esp auditors here), i'm sure there are dipshits that work as auditors but there are also very smart people that work in big 4 firm that know plenty about investment strategy/modelling and derivatives.

very true. Some people in accounting are exceptionally incompetent, especially amongst the younger staff ( but equally there are many excellent people, both personally and professionally.

 

[Omnidragon]

Here are the IB jobs from what I understand
Financial Dealers and Brokers
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=3212

Finance Advisor
http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?PageId=AscoDesc&ASCOCode=3213

??

 

[redruM]

True, I think I would rather earn more rather than have a "fake" social life. I mean, true, I'd rather double my salary for the sake of some crappy friday night drinks and boring weekends.

I'm pretty sure that I would prefer a social life than to work too hard. I think the opposite would be an option for a couple of years once I am 25+, but till then (I think I mentioned this elsewhere) I'm in my sexual prime and have to take advantage of that.

 

[turtleface]

I'm pretty sure that I would prefer a social life than to work too hard. I think the opposite would be an option for a couple of years once I am 25+, but till then (I think I mentioned this elsewhere) I'm in my sexual prime and have to take advantage of that.

absolutely. a better love life is more important than getting some extra dough . I'd rather not do kinky shit with money.

 

[dreamz]

frinkinator ur a f***kng gronk

if ur such a hot shot, why are u at uni then?

why dont u just "make ur money work for u?", u seem to be such an investment professional with ur share marketing trading game experience

keep thinking ur good, idiots like u with no work experience and think they are born for the industry really make me laugh

 

[seremify007]

I leave for a bit and come back to find a bunch of posts... time to catch up.

sample size is 1/100 which is 10% if you want to see what it takes to be an executive director at macquarie bank. but thats just playing with numbers

I think the "wtf" nature is related to 1/100 = 1%.

Also... isn't sample size meant to be a single integer (eg 8, 15, 35, etc...) and not a fraction?

*shrugs*

I think after alot of you guys start actually working in the profession, regardless of what job you do, you'll still feel damn tired when you get home.