American Idol and Autralian Idol (2 Viewers)

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by narrator
firstly, please stop twisting what i say, i never said it was a bad idea to aim voting and the album at the same audience.

secondly, i'd take your criticisms more seriously if you didn't think that "upbeat" ws a genre of music

by the way, the comp isn't about selecting an artist who'll sell, that's a facade. it's pop music, it's not meant to last, the show is meant to generate revenue from the show, the winner is only signed up for one album.

Once again, the right to twist other peoples words is within my rights (but not yours if thats what you were thinking), and if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen (besides, you're argument is easier to twist than Gumby when he's tired.) Anyway, I wasn't twisting what you were saying, you were saying that the people from the spend now age group spend the most and so the cost element takes out everyone else. I was simply taking your argument to its logical contradiction. I also never said that "upbeat" was my favourite genre, but I did say it was my favourite type of music. There is a subtle difference, alluded to by the fact that they're two completely different words. Btw, you said that its only all about revenue raising and not selecting a competent candidate. Firstly this is a cynical attack at the benevolent creatures who air the simpsons (not being completely serious incase you're wondering). Secondly, they wouldn't sign the artist up for an album if they think he/she was going to ruin their reputation and their profits (maybe?). Most importantly however, you're desire for vengeance against Bardot and Scandalus (or however they spell their name) has blinded you to reason and left you unable to see that Idol winners have been relatively succesful thus far. Remember, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by narrator
not really, just their affiliates, besides, all of them have only been signed for one album...pop music doesn't generate much for any artist after one album, infact it usually takes about 3 or 4 before the artist is out of debt

If you're whole point is that the results are inconclusive, then you can't say I'm wrong, just that the facts aren't in yet. Furthermore, they have been relatively successful thus far using currently available indicators (such as album sales, reviews etc).

 

[MUS2]

idol winners have not been relatively successful. maybe kelly clarkson has had a few hits o/s but gareth gates is not the uk idol winner. it doesn't matter who wins the competition, BMG will end up signing the top two at the least. another three will get picked up by a rival big named record company, two will go on to be tv hosts/actors etc. making voting cost means ppl will want to make their vote count as most people in the age bracket aren't afraid to spend a bit of money but not too much.

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by MUS2
idol winners have not been relatively successful. maybe kelly clarkson has had a few hits o/s but gareth gates is not the uk idol winner. it doesn't matter who wins the competition, BMG will end up signing the top two at the least. another three will get picked up by a rival big named record company, two will go on to be tv hosts/actors etc. making voting cost means ppl will want to make their vote count as most people in the age bracket aren't afraid to spend a bit of money but not too much.

By relatively, I was pretty much referring to relative to other "TV made groups" such as Bardot and that other group. Idol winners definitely seem to have fewer people who wish them grievous harm at least.

 

[MUS2]

no not really...if you look relatively then due to the longer period of time that the other tv made groups have been around then they have had more success...ppl don't wnat to do grievous harm to any idols yet bcse they haven't sold out yet by making the wrong career moves...

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by MUS2
no not really...if you look relatively then due to the longer period of time that the other tv made groups have been around then they have had more success...ppl don't wnat to do grievous harm to any idols yet bcse they haven't sold out yet by making the wrong career moves...

Obviously you have to look at similar artists at about the same time, otherwise the games just no fun. As for saying that they haven't been artists long enough to seem to have a lynch mob, what about that band Scandoulus or whatever it was called?

 

[MUS2]

i didn't say they haven't been around long enough in order to be lynched...i said they haven't made any major mistakes yet in order to be lynched....narrator is right - you do twist ppls words

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by MUS2
i didn't say they haven't been around long enough in order to be lynched...i said they haven't made any major mistakes yet in order to be lynched....narrator is right - you do twist ppls words

Having seen the two of you debate, I don't believe you can talk. At least I don't make up eminem lyrics in a debate! At any rate, the two things are linked. The mistake made by my example of Scandalous was having the nerve to come into being. Relatively speaking, artists like kelly have been successful for having been gracefully allowed to exist.

 

[narrator]

that makes absolutely no sense, your logic is that because people don't hate kelly then that means she'll earn a lot of money, uh wrong! and believe it or not, there are more people that hate her than those who like her.

btw, how can you compare Scandal'Us to kelly, it's two different shows, one voting on by judges, the other by the public, if anything you should listen to mus2 and compare her to other idol finalists, and stop posting so damn much, 50 in two days, that's overkill

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by narrator
if you know they've been so successful, give me an indication, some numbers of album sales, btw, do you know how much an artist makes from each album sold? i have a feeling that you don't

and if you wanna compare kelly to Scandal'Us or even Bardot, well in Australia for a starters both S and B had number one albums, yet kelly hasn't reached there yet (although i hope she does, but that's just my personal opinion), so please know your facts before you decide to argue

That might sound all well and good if you want to bring facts into it. However, you're forgetting that these albums have had longer in the market than kelly. Therefore they can hardly be comparable. Unless you know the exact figures for the sales of those other bands after the same time that kelly's has been released for (and I'll know if you make them up, lol), then face facts, the facts just aren't there. Really the only solid indicators to go on are how many people believe that evisceration would be a good look for her (I don't if thats what you're thinking).

 

[iambored]

you're debating against each other in so many forums i have come across today!

 

[Fry]

has anyone heard that 'rise up' song? OMG it sounds shit!

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by narrator
you're showing your ignorance, pop music is disposable, it just doesn't keep selling and selling, kelly is on the brink of releasing her third single in aus, her album is peaking now and will only ever sell less, but not for long, believe it or not, only a certain number of albums are manufactured!

hate clubs are indicators of nothing but dislike for a person, and more people hate kelly than they do the popstars bands, why? because she is from an american show and has wider coverage, the more coverage the more like, but also the more dislike.

by the way, don't ask me for figures only to disagree with them, i gave you the opportunity to show me some numbers to prove me wrong, but alas you could not, why? because you just don't know the facts.

Even if her albums only ever sell less, thats still selling i.e. more sales, so if you're talking about the magnitude of sales it will still keep increasing. Furthermore, the onus is on you to provide the facts because you're the one who disputed me, and are trying to prove me wrong not the other way round. Really, for someone who loves facts you really don't seem to use it that much. You say that Kelly is less well liked than Scandalus even though you admitted to hating them when they first came out and you have opened a thread based on how much you approve of Kelly, which has received far more approval than disapproval and you're justification for her is more bereft of logic than a Current Affairs program (though it does show your penchant for creative writing narrator). Shame, shame, shame.

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by narrator
firstly, please stop twisting what i say, i never said it was a bad idea to aim voting and the album at the same audience.

secondly, i'd take your criticisms more seriously if you didn't think that "upbeat" ws a genre of music

by the way, the comp isn't about selecting an artist who'll sell, that's a facade. it's pop music, it's not meant to last, the show is meant to generate revenue from the show, the winner is only signed up for one album.

Originally posted by MUS2
idol winners have not been relatively successful. maybe kelly clarkson has had a few hits o/s but gareth gates is not the uk idol winner. it doesn't matter who wins the competition, BMG will end up signing the top two at the least. another three will get picked up by a rival big named record company, two will go on to be tv hosts/actors etc. making voting cost means ppl will want to make their vote count as most people in the age bracket aren't afraid to spend a bit of money but not too much.

IM sorry people.. but have none of realised the futility of these competitions....have a look at japan or korea where the damn pop market is exactly like this...and youlll realise that we have a shitter of a market for pop let alone alternative....

 

[narrator]

Originally posted by ssj_goku
Even if her albums only ever sell less, thats still selling i.e. more sales, so if you're talking about the magnitude of sales it will still keep increasing. Furthermore, the onus is on you to provide the facts because you're the one who disputed me, and are trying to prove me wrong not the other way round. Really, for someone who loves facts you really don't seem to use it that much. You say that Kelly is less well liked than Scandalus even though you admitted to hating them when they first came out and you have opened a thread based on how much you approve of Kelly, which has received far more approval than disapproval and you're justification for her is more bereft of logic than a Current Affairs program (though it does show your penchant for creative writing narrator). Shame, shame, shame.

firstly, again, calm down and don't talk a laod of bull, honestly, that post was rediculous, you just went round in circles and again, not a debate, don't try and convince me that you're right, because i know you're not and that you also have no idea what you're talking about.

again, you have no figures.

btw, just because i like kelly doesn't mean that everyone else does, as i explained before, more people don't like her than those that do, if you knew music you'd know this.

just because her album sells doesn't mean it's a success, she's in debt at the moment, and hasn't sold as many albums as either popstars groups in australia

 

[AsyLum]

so... hey how crap was levi being voted out on monday....

 

[ssj_goku]

Originally posted by narrator
firstly, again, calm down and don't talk a laod of bull, honestly, that post was rediculous, you just went round in circles and again, not a debate, don't try and convince me that you're right, because i know you're not and that you also have no idea what you're talking about.

again, you hvae no figures.

btw, just because i like kelly doesn't mean that everyone else does, as i explained before, more people don't like her than those that do, if you knew music you'd know this.

just because her album sells doesn't mean it's a success, she's in debt at the moment, and hasn't sold as many albums as either popstars groups in australia

Firstly I would give you the same advice, but it might help you improve, so I won't. Again, the onus is on you to present the figures not me, and besides if postmodernism taught you anything its that there are no facts, no transcendant truths. Maybe you're desire to search for them (or have others search for them in this case) is modernist desperation in a postmodern world (not being completely serious there so don't argue). Also, just because you give a shallow justification of why people wouldn't like her doesn't mean they don't as you and your thread supports. As I explained before your statement that more people dislike her than those that do is rubbish (if you can use assertions then so can I dammit). Finally, I realised this is not debating a while ago when you started circling a very minor point and shut up about the main topic of this thread. Also, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right, just that you're wrong.

 

[narrator]

get over postmdernism, seriously, your fetish is disturbing,

you know nothing about music!!!

more people dislike any artist that has ever been in existence than like them, if it were the other way round they'd all be selling a lot more, use assetions if you want, but at least mine are true.

my threrad doesn't support that more people like her than don't, just that i happen to like her, i'll tell you why poeple wouldn't though:

1. hatred of reality tv
2. hatred of pop music
3. hatred of her as an artist
4. hatred of her as a person
5. hatred of her record company

there's more but i couldn't be bothered listing em all, i just don't happen to fall into any of these categories

 

[ssj_goku]

For someone who claims to be omnipotent, you seem to have little control over reason. I can see that you have "constructed" a "reality" in which I have a fetish for postmodernism. Fortunately, I will not fall into the Nietzhe (or whoever it was that devised it) trap of a perspectivism in which all perspectives are equally valid. Therefore I can maintain my postmodernity while saying that you're irrevocably wrong.

In addition I happen to own the soundtrack to FF7 and I caught a glimpse of Australian Idol (my sister loves it), so I'm completely qualified to rant on about it at leisure . Besides, as a debator you should remember to attack the argument not the person.

You also nullified your own argument by saying that every artist is hated more than liked. Remember this is about relative success not absolute, though perhaps you're so deeply entrenched in pomo you can't tell the diff. I would also like to point out that your assertion that your other assertions are right is also an assertion. As such the only response valid would be "Na-Uh". Oh and you're thread does support that more people like her as more people on the thread seem to like her. Also, you're own approval of her reached an almost emphatic point at one time in your thread so if you could be so irrevocably wrong about her, then perhaps you should ask yourself who it is that doesn't know the music industry.

 

[Antisocial]

Sorry to intrude, but who are "FF7"?