Applied Finance/Commerce at MQ suitable for Investment Banking? (4 Viewers)

[Confound]

Any evidence to back that up champ or are we going to continue to rely on anecdotal evidence?

We are going to continue to rely on anecdotal evidence

 

[BandSixFix]

Any evidence to back that up champ or are we going to continue to rely on anecdotal evidence?

hahhaha '2018' and '2017' like holy shit we get it, you think your opinions are suddenly more valid than everyone else because you guys are in year 10.

 

[meDAawesome]

No we are simply saying that in the real world, in Australia, you have literally no chance in making top tier roles coming from non-go8. /QUOTE]

No thats not true at all. Getting into roles like investment banking has much more to do with experience, showing a passion for the career and your connections within the industry, rather than where you get an undergraduate degree. Universities reputations are much more important for post graduate degrees not undergraduate. I know many people who attended non-go8 unis and are currently working in investment banking, for example one guy I know did Actuarial and Applied Finance at Macquarie and now works for an investment bank in Chicago. So in reality that statement isn't true at all.

 

[si2136]

No we are simply saying that in the real world, in Australia, you have literally no chance in making top tier roles coming from non-go8. /QUOTE]

No thats not true at all. Getting into roles like investment banking has much more to do with experience, showing a passion for the career and your connections within the industry, rather than where you get an undergraduate degree. Universities reputations are much more important for post graduate degrees not undergraduate. I know many people who attended non-go8 unis and are currently working in investment banking, for example one guy I know did Actuarial and Applied Finance at Macquarie and now works for an investment bank in Chicago. So in reality that statement isn't true at all.

He is talking about getting into ib in the big 4

 

[meDAawesome]

He is talking about getting into ib in the big 4

My friend from Macquarie went to work for Goldman in Chicago so don't think you can't make it to big 4 from non-go8.

 

[Confound]

You seem to have an extensive experience and a lot of friends in the industry so you are probably right.

And also, because you guys have done your extensive research, can you quickly clarify what exactly do you mean by "Big 4 IB" and/or "IB in the Big 4"?
Are you talking about the Institutional Banking roles in big 4 corporate banks or Deals/Transactions roles in big 4 accounting?

Just wondering why you would need an MBA and connections for a mere graduate position in big 4

 

[Trebla]

But it's highly unlikely you'll get graduate role at one of the big 4 straight out of an undergraduate degree at uni. If you really want to work at a big 4 IB study a postgrad degree ie. commerce/MBA and have some connections.

lolwut

Graduate positions in IB (at least in Australia not sure about overseas) are dominated by those with just an undergrad degree (hence 'graduate').

MBA (which is more about management) has nothing to do with IB so it is completely useless for an analyst position. If anything, applying for grad roles with an MBA is likely to mean instant rejection as you would probably be deemed 'overqualified'.

 

[meDAawesome]

lolwut

Graduate positions in IB (at least in Australia not sure about overseas) are dominated by those with just an undergrad degree (hence 'graduate').

MBA (which is more about management) has nothing to do with IB so it is completely useless for an analyst position. If anything, applying for grad roles with an MBA is likely to mean instant rejection as you would probably be deemed 'overqualified'.

I'm talking specifically about the big 4 (Goldman, Merryl, Chase, Morgan Stanley) which is what one of the other posters was referring to. Within Australia, of course we have a large range of banks and investment banks (domestic big 4, UBS, Macquarie etc etc) so of course there would be a large number of graduates working within those institutions. However, I was referring to in my post about highly prestigious institutions of which the IBs which take on less graduates comparatively and have people with post grad degrees.

I will admit I was partially wrong about the MBA tho, it is more focused on management roles.

Now referring to what OP was asking about one other thing that I forgot to mention with specifics to Macquarie was that they offer a work experience program as part of their commerce/finance degrees, allowing you to have experience working at places like Macquarie Group, CommBank etc.

 

[Trebla]

I'm talking specifically about the big 4 (Goldman, Merryl, Chase, Morgan Stanley) which is what one of the other posters was referring to. Within Australia, of course we have a large range of banks and investment banks (domestic big 4, UBS, Macquarie etc etc) so of course there would be a large number of graduates working within those institutions. However, I was referring to in my post about highly prestigious institutions of which the IBs which take on less graduates comparatively and have people with post grad degrees.

I will admit I was partially wrong about the MBA tho, it is more focused on management roles.

Now referring to what OP was asking about one other thing that I forgot to mention with specifics to Macquarie was that they offer a work experience program as part of their commerce/finance degrees, allowing you to have experience working at places like Macquarie Group, CommBank etc.

I would still argue that grads in highly prestigious IBs in Australia have mainly undergrad qualifications. I have mates who worked as grads in all of those IBs and pretty much none of them have a post-grad degree. Even more telling is that the grads you talk to when these IBs come on uni campuses to promote their grad programs predominantly hold undergrad degrees (most of them comm/law).

 

[meDAawesome]

I would still argue that grads in highly prestigious IBs in Australia have mainly undergrad qualifications. I have mates who worked as grads in all of those IBs and pretty much none of them have a post-grad degree. Even more telling is that the grads you talk to when these IBs come on uni campuses to promote their grad programs predominantly hold undergrad degrees (most of them comm/law).

If you don't mind me asking what were the other undergrad degrees they held, I'm guessing like economics, engineering, mathematics stuff like that

 

[Trebla]

If you don't mind me asking what were the other undergrad degrees they held, I'm guessing like economics, engineering, mathematics stuff like that

Yeah usually some variation of those degrees. There is also the odd arts student as well.

 

[asi9]

I'm talking specifically about the big 4 (Goldman, Merryl, Chase, Morgan Stanley).

What the fuck are you talking about - Chase isn't even an IB - they're the commercial arm of JPM; Merrill (nice spelling btw) doesn't even exist anymore, their legacy IBD teams are part of BAML now. Also they are not collectively known as the "Big 4" - GS & MS are heads above the rest (JPM at #3).

Did you pull this garbage from your HSC economics textbook?

 

[Confound]

What the fuck are you talking about - Chase isn't even an IB - they're the commercial arm of JPM; Merrill (nice spelling btw) doesn't even exist anymore, their legacy IBD teams are part of BAML now. Also they are not collectively known as the "Big 4" - GS & MS are heads above the rest (JPM at #3).

Did you pull this garbage from your HSC economics textbook?

That's a bit harsh :/ at least they are trying.

In year 12 I couldn't even name any other professional service fields apart from accounting and lending money (banks), let alone know exactly who the major global players in IB were

 

[asi9]

Too much misinformation on these forums re: banking/finance from people still in high school and how Macquarie is on a similar level to the Go8 in placing at IBs - sure you can use your outlier of an example in your GS Chicago buddy or whatever (doubt they're actually a "friend"), but just look at any IBs' incoming classes of grads and 99% will be Go8. If you have the choice of Go8 vs non-Go8 and you want to break into banking, you're putting yourself at a severe disadvantage by choosing the latter and hoping to be some diamond in the rough wunderkind.

 

[si2136]

IB is starting to die out

Focus on Big Data and Quant Roles

To do IB, you can have a degree in Economics or Engineering and still become an IB, there's no restriction (Could be restriction of roles eg. (M&A))

Many people follow the path of Comm./Law, but it's not needed.

IB is really competitive.

 

[Simorgh]

Going to GO8 or whatever shitty classification they give is nowhere comparable to going to the likes of Harvard or Cambridge.

At undergrad level all Universities are the same in Australia.

 

[si2136]

Going to GO8 or whatever shitty classification they give is nowhere comparable to going to the likes of Harvard or Cambridge.

At undergrad level all Universities are the same in Australia.

Yes, but not everyone can afford to go to Uni overseas, it's really expensive.

And some employers would prefer their applicants to be from a GO8.

You do have some point, ATAR cut-offs are Supply and Demand, but generally that means for people hiring you that you're more competitive. Not entirely true. But you do need to get the point that your resume/cv needs to look attractive to the employer since they are the ones offering you the job.

 

[Simorgh]

Just becuase someone did great in high school and got an ATAR like 95+ then went to USYD or UNSW. Well that doesn't mean they will necessarily preform to the same high standards at university or in the workforce.

A good GPA or WAM will be a good indicator plus experience. Other than the University be GO8 or not which should not even be up for consideration when applying for any job.

 

[RealiseNothing]

Going to GO8 or whatever shitty classification they give is nowhere comparable to going to the likes of Harvard or Cambridge.

At undergrad level all Universities are the same in Australia.

2017

 

[Amundies]

Just becuase someone did great in high school and got an ATAR like 95+ then went to USYD or UNSW. Well that doesn't mean they will necessarily preform to the same high standards at university or in the workforce.

A good GPA or WAM will be a good indicator plus experience. Other than the University be GO8 or not which should not even be up for consideration when applying for any job.

GO8 is a factor though. If you don't want to look at the mysterious, intangible "prestige" factor you can look at the basic economics behind it. There's a higher demand (for whatever reason) for GO8 universities, and this allows universities to be very choosy with who they take into their degrees and so obviously they will attempt to take the very best. The only indicator that they have at their disposal is the ATAR so they will aim to take the highest ATAR-scoring students, and I'm sure you'd find that a good portion of people who got high ATARs are also doing quite well in uni (I'm NOT saying this means that people who didn't get high ATARs don't do well in uni, but at the least there's not as big a correlation. I'm also NOT saying that everyone who gets a high ATAR will do well in uni). As a result, employers will hold degrees from GO8's higher than non-GO8's.

But yes, these are all indicators at the end of the day. The ATAR is an indicator, WAM/GPA is an indicator, what uni you went to is an indicator and what jobs/responsibilities you had are also another indicator. Having all 4 of these may not make you a good investment banker (Lazard recently made a $400mm mistake in one of their valuations because they double-counted something, and yet you'll find that the analysts who worked on the deal probably ticked all 4 of these boxes), while you may have none of these and yet in reality be a good investment banker. But there's definitely a better chance that someone who ticks more boxes is more likely to be better at the job, and so they will look at all of these indicators.