Are all the good scholarships becoming "indigenous only"? Discuss. (2 Viewers)

[Lolsmith]

white people so retarded

"hey, I have a statistically far higher chance of being sick and in prison and not even finishing school and on drugs, and I'll probably die about 20 years earlier than you... but at least I'm eligible for a couple scholarships"

Statistically anything is a pretty bullshit way to measure something and you know that

 

[Gigacube]

That's the price they pay for making their own decisions

kaz said we don't *need* female engineers, not that he doesn't want them. The same principle extends to male nurses and sex workers

Women or men shouldn't be disadvantaged for choosing what they enjoy.

 

[enoilgam]

The only problem I have with this though is that the huge mega-scholarships (eg. $10,000 for 99.9) are based purely on ATAR/UAI. And it takes a particular kind of intelligence to get that mark - it doesn't allow for any other kind of assessment. I guess my main problem is realistically with the HSC and calculation of ATAR - but the requirements to do well in the HSC are very different to the requirements to do well in uni. HSC is very much a memorisation game - university requires analysis and self-motivation. There are people who get 99.x and do a lot worse at uni than people with lower UAI's.

I wish there was more of a system of scholarships that benefited not just incoming university students, but also those already at university who had done well in their university subjects. Rather than just one off small prizes, a scholarship would be much more beneficial for continuing students.

I agree with this point as well. At my uni, there are far fewer scholarships for current uni students as opposed to school leavers. People who have proven themselves at uni deserve a better shot at gaining scholarships.

 

[Graney]

Indigenous scholarships are based on 'racism' (a loaded term), but making generalizations and applying stereotypes is often a rational and effective policy for governance. If you have more poor and disadvantaged people in one demographic, targeting disproportionate resources to that demographic may produce the most utilitarian outcome. Should we put an equal number of career counselors per capita in both Mt Druitt and Double Bay? Discrimination based on demographic observations occurs all the time, there's no reason spatial and socio-economic discrimination is justified and racial discrimination isn't, what about the poor unemployed youth of Double Bay who can't access the same volume of services as the youth of cabramatta, so unfair.

Not all non-Aboriginal families find uni fees 'pretty affordable'

That's an extremely fallacious statement - so you're saying that every non-ATSI (non Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander) family sees forking over $4000 a semester as affordable? That's an extremely myopic view, garnered from a very limited and selective cross section of society. Just because you and some people you know are doing fine, doesn't mean everyone is doing it fine.

University is basically free in this country. Who 'pays' $4000 per semester lol.

 

[Aerath]

I actually don't think there are any women-only scholarships for law at usyd (not that i could find on their website in any case).

I think the issue with Law as a profession is that there are now equal female grads and lawyers, but that hasn't yet set through to partnership levels, where it is still very male dominated. I believe the mentoring programs (at least in firms - not sure if the justification can still work for uni mentoring programs) is to attempt to balance the numbers of women in law firm partnerships.

The number of women in the court/criminal system as well as pretty abysmal - including judges/magistrats etc. There are also particularly bad statistics in terms of female senior solicitors appearing in criminal and civil cases (ie. slim to none).

That's a fair point. I guess in the partnership world of law, women are quite under-represented.

Aren't these sponsored by individuals mostly? In which case they can choose how to use their money, and set the criteria. For example, a rich old lady wanting to help a female whose situation she had been in many years before (hypothetical)

Some scholarships are like that. Some are sponsored by an institution and whatnot.

University is basically free in this country. Who 'pays' $4000 per semester lol.

Well, I paid $2900 for uni fees last semester, not including textbooks. So all up, it would've cost $3k.

As I mentioned in my other post, for some courses, there are mandatory extras, such as equipment (Optometry third years have to fork out $4000 for a piece of mandatory equipment), labcoats etc.

 

[cheezcake]

I'm more pissed at all the women in engineering and women in science scholarships, don't see a men in nursing or men in midwifery scholarship

 

[LightXT]

Some private school kiddies wouldn't have much problem paying 4 grand a semester. There are a LOT of rural only scholarships for unsw engineering as well, but no one in this thread seems to have an issue with that.

 

[Ivorytw]

I probably have spent 8g this semester at the very least.

 

[Ivorytw]

Some private school kiddies wouldn't have much problem paying 4 grand a semester. There are a LOT of rural only scholarships for unsw engineering as well, but no one in this thread seems to have an issue with that.

At least with rural scholarships there is an actual need. How easy do you think it is for kids who live in the country to get up and hop on over to the city with no support network, previous rental history, stable job etc.

Also the cost of traveling home during semester breaks/holidays if you haven't found permanent accommodation. Usually people in the country are paid less than their city counterparts but are able to maintain a similar living standard due to lower cost of living. But if you're trying to live off mum and Dad in the city while they're earning half of what the other people in your degree are earning it's a hard thing to do.

 

[Graney]

At least with rural scholarships there is an actual need. How easy do you think it is for kids who live in the country to get up and hop on over to the city with no support network, previous rental history, stable job etc.

Any rural person, not considering their financial situation is allowed to get a full scholarship based on where they live

It is absolutely discrimination to assume that all rural people are going to be unable to afford to attend university/get a job that enables them to pay off their hecs/fee help afterward.

So basically what you're saying is that all rural Australians are poor and unable to afford fees while all city people are wealthy.

 

[Phoenix Fury]

Doesn't hecs help mean you dont pay shit until you earn over $X a year so money wouldn't even matter?

 

[Ivorytw]

Any rural person, not considering their financial situation is allowed to get a full scholarship based on where they live

It is absolutely discrimination to assume that all rural people are going to be unable to afford to attend university/get a job that enables them to pay off their hecs/fee help afterward.

So basically what you're saying is that all rural Australians are poor and unable to afford fees while all city people are wealthy.

HAHA FUNNY!

With the rural scholarships they actually take into account your financial situation...

 

[Graney]

Not necessarily

http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/rural/alliedhealth/scholarships.asp
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/orh/scholarships/qhrss/docs/info_kit.pdf
http://www.ruralfinance.com.au/context/Library/image.aspx?assetid=RDM38492.6629537384&versionno=4

 

[Dr_Fresh]

I think the conclusion is that the current scheme is a load of shit and all scholarships should be means tested. A certain group/class of people shouldn't get scholarships simply because they are GENERALISED to be financially disadvantaged.
For example, Centrelink payments aren't just given to people based on their race/geographical location. It's all rigorously assessed and given to the people in actual need. Same principle.

what about academic scholarships (i.e. 99.9+)?

I could make a sweeping generalisation that all those with 99.9+ are financially sound since they can afford to have tutors. Why give them $10k per year?

We aren't talking about academic scholarships here. If they actually worked hard enough to get 99.90, then they deserve it. There is a problem when EQUITY scholarships are given to people simply based on their race or where they live, when in actual fact they MAY be better off financially than someone who isn't from one of these "underprivileged" groups.

 

[Starfriend]

. i didnt say affirmative action was wrong in principle at all, i was specific to scholarships and so was everyone else. stop putting words into my mouth and pretending you have some sort of superior moral high ground in this debate. now that's disgusting.

trust me, i couldn't put words in your mouth - it's full of shit already.

youre just incredibly jealous that there are ppl getting scholarships that you think youre entitled to. trust me honey, with that sense of entitlement, youre likely not going to get anywhere in life

no wonder you want to go to macquarie instead of sydney - sydney has a higher % of aboriginals

as i said - from what ive read in this thread, others' problems with affirmative action has a lot to do with the inherently racist nature of policy (something that i agree with). but what you want out of this is not some form of discussion about policy, you just want to bitch and whine about how because youre not aboriginal, youre not entitled to a scholarship

your sense of entitlement and arrogance is 'disgusting'

 

[Existential]

I think the conclusion is that the current scheme is a load of shit and all scholarships should be means tested. A certain group/class of people shouldn't get scholarships simply because they are GENERALISED to be financially disadvantaged.
For example, Centrelink payments aren't just given to people based on their race/geographical location. It's all rigorously assessed and given to the people in actual need. Same principle.


We aren't talking about academic scholarships here. If they actually worked hard enough to get 99.90, then they deserve it. There is a problem when EQUITY scholarships are given to people simply based on their race or where they live, when in actual fact they MAY be better off financially than someone who isn't from one of these "underprivileged" groups.

THIS. ^

trust me, i couldn't put words in your mouth - it's full of shit already.

youre just incredibly jealous that there are ppl getting scholarships that you think youre entitled to. trust me honey, with that sense of entitlement, youre likely not going to get anywhere in life

no wonder you want to go to macquarie instead of sydney - sydney has a higher % of aboriginals

as i said - from what ive read in this thread, others' problems with affirmative action has a lot to do with the inherently racist nature of policy (something that i agree with). but what you want out of this is not some form of discussion about policy, you just want to bitch and whine about how because youre not aboriginal, youre not entitled to a scholarship

your sense of entitlement and arrogance is 'disgusting'

HAHAHHAHAHA im starting to think ur trolling me now.......

 

[tambam]

THIS. ^
HAHAHHAHAHA im starting to think ur trolling me now.......

Can you answer my question from the other thread? Areyou actually financially disadvantaged and hence bitter of a system that favours indigenous Australians above you?

Or are you just greedy and have an inflated sense of self importance which makes you think you're entitled to completely free education and living expenses in a country that already heaps benefits on everyone.

Judging from your comments in the other thread, ill assume its the latter, in which case, I completely agree with Starfriend.

 

[Existential]

Can you answer my question from the other thread? Areyou actually financially disadvantaged and hence bitter of a system that favours indigenous Australians above you?

Or are you just greedy and have an inflated sense of self importance which makes you think you're entitled to completely free education and living expenses in a country that already heaps benefits on everyone.

Judging from your comments in the other thread, ill assume its the latter, in which case, I completely agree with Starfriend.

I've made my position clear, if you don't want to listen that's your choice. You also don't have to post in here if you think it is full of racist arrogant views. I think you are the arrogant and racist one but I'm hardly personally attacking you like you are to me. But w/e, both of your arguments have gotten so desperate I'll do you a fovour and assume your trolling.

 

[tambam]

I've made my position clear, if you don't want to listen that's your choice. You also don't have to post in here if you think it is full of racist arrogant views. I think you are the arrogant and racist one but I'm hardly personally attacking you like you are to me. But w/e, both of your arguments have gotten so desperate I'll do you a fovour and assume your trolling.

No, you've actually done nothing in the way of making any sort of valuable contribution to this discussion, an I think many others have made valid points which have altered my thinking, though I still stand by my view that its not wrong to award indigenous scholarships if the government feels the need to attempt to rectify social injustices.

and make your position clear by answering my question, are you actually financially disadvantaged?
I am genuinely interested in why else you deserve a scholarship over indigenous students.
Case in point, your frustration that noone would pay for ALL your living expenses

And how far does $3,000 to $5,000 a year go to meeting the costs of living in Women's College ie. what percentage is it of the total yearly fee of living there? Again curiosity and thanks.

That's what I thought...... great you can have this scholarship each year but there's still $10,000.00 not included in the scholarship. -_-

 

[Phoenix Fury]

I don't really see a problem with a degree being dominated by a particular gender, why do we even need female engineers?

Ikr there are some females who wanna do it but in general it doesn't seem to appeal to them. Pretty sure it only means they're more interested in other shit which shouldn't bother anyone.