Arts and HSC results (2 Viewers)

[Mutant Kitty]

BOS can be my medium for me to vent this problem that I have with the HSC.
I'll keep it short, with this small example.
I have a friend who got band 6's in both visual arts and music, achieving 95 in both. She is a good singer, and has always been good at painting... She isn't intelligent, but has good knowledge of both courses.
I have another friend who did Chemistry and MX1, as well as mostly other logic based subjects. He achieved in the 80's for most subjects.
The first friend I mentioned, the artistic one achieved a higher ATAR and will use said ATAR (decent, largely due to her artistic subjects, with maths and physics pulling her down a bit) to take a place at UNSW for Engineering, whilst my second friend is likely going to UWS unless bonus points save him.
I am all for diversity in students, and I'm not an art Nazi that claims that it is useless, but the system is broken.
I was just wondering whether other people agree that a system closer to the SAT testing or at least a form of testing that measures intelligence as opposed to knowledge in many circumstances would be better. Perhaps a mandatory UMAT of sorts...
BTW, I've got into the course that I want, and did perfectly fine, so this isn't a cop out of mine, merely an observation of how the system misrepresents students through this universal metric that covers basically every course.

 

[Leffife]

It would be better if the system had subject prerequisites, as well as a specific mark required. In other words, for example to enter some engineering course starting now and will continue in the future, students should have completed at least Ext 1 Maths and achieve a minimum of E3. The past is the past, but they should change the system for future students.

 

[Mutant Kitty]

I can only speak from personal experience too...
I received an internal mark of 74 for English, and then received 82 for my exam mark, thus showing that my final exam mark must have been quite decent.
I paid a penalty on my final HSC mark because my teacher was about 120 years old and refused to mark essays according to merit and criteria as opposed to her own opinion on texts.
If my English mark had of been fair, or if it wasn't a required subject for the ATAR, I would have attained an ATAR that allowed me to better pick and choose courses if I wanted to.
Oh well... Its all done now, I'm not angry for myself, as I have what I want, but I've just heard of a lot of people who have been f'd over so bad.

 

[Absolutezero]

If Engineering wants students who do well in Math and/or Science, then they can make it mandatory. If they just want students who do well overall, then that's their call too.

 

[Drongoski]

If Engineering wants students who do well in Math and/or Science, then they can make it mandatory. If they just want students who do well overall, then that's their call too.

Unis want and need students. So they don't want to mandate prerequisites. If they do so,they'd be at a disadvantage by excluding students. If you are accepted for Engineering, but shouldn't have been, because of your lack of background, that's your business. Unis want students, need the enrolment and therefore the $$$$ to survive.

@Op - any idea what your artistic friend achieved in her maths (MX1??) and Physics?

 

[sirable1]

It's all about making money.

I had a background of General Maths in school and attended the bridging courses @ UTS. Honestly, it wasn't that effective.
1. The pace was too quick.
2. They only used one example for every kind of topic before we moved onto the next.

 

[flashyGoldFish]

BOS can be my medium for me to vent this problem that I have with the HSC.
I'll keep it short, with this small example.
I have a friend who got band 6's in both visual arts and music, achieving 95 in both. She is a good singer, and has always been good at painting... She isn't intelligent, but has good knowledge of both courses.
I have another friend who did Chemistry and MX1, as well as mostly other logic based subjects. He achieved in the 80's for most subjects.
The first friend I mentioned, the artistic one achieved a higher ATAR and will use said ATAR (decent, largely due to her artistic subjects, with maths and physics pulling her down a bit) to take a place at UNSW for Engineering, whilst my second friend is likely going to UWS unless bonus points save him.
I am all for diversity in students, and I'm not an art Nazi that claims that it is useless, but the system is broken.
I was just wondering whether other people agree that a system closer to the SAT testing or at least a form of testing that measures intelligence as opposed to knowledge in many circumstances would be better. Perhaps a mandatory UMAT of sorts...
BTW, I've got into the course that I want, and did perfectly fine, so this isn't a cop out of mine, merely an observation of how the system misrepresents students through this universal metric that covers basically every course.

YES YES OH YES! So completely agree with this post.
Theres some thing though about you cant 'hate on arts or disadvatange kids who arent smart' and thats why the system is what it is.

 

[sirable1]

I paid a penalty on my final HSC mark because my teacher was about 120 years old and refused to mark essays according to merit and criteria as opposed to her own opinion on texts.

Does she look like a bitch?

I know your place. I said hi to one of the UTS exam supervisors and she didn't say hi back...

"Well fuck you too" was what in my mind at the time.

 

[anomalousdecay]

It doesn't matter much. Your artistic friend is likely to bomb out and end up doing something else.

However, she may end up continuing the course. There is also the chance that she won't like engineering.

Its up to her though.

 

[xer0]

It's all about making money.

I had a background of General Maths in school and attended the bridging courses @ UTS. Honestly, it wasn't that effective.
1. The pace was too quick.
2. They only used one example for every kind of topic before we moved onto the next.

Which maths bridging course did you do? and was it a class environment where students were asked questions and had activities, etc. Or was it just the lecturer at the front going through the content with no class interaction?

 

[studybuddy101]

I've always thought we should have a set of core subjects each year and be allowed to enrol in certain courses depending on our own interests, basically a uni-ish system starting from a certain year (say year 7) and ending in a final year (I would recommend year 10). We'd only be marked on 1 subject per semester so a total of 6 subjects by the end. It would encourage experimentation and remove a lot of stress (not to mention save people a lot of time who intend to do post grad). Moreover the final mark would just act as a general aptitude indicator, there should be entrance exams/tests/interviews for particular courses.

That's just off the cuff, feel free to expand/change what you would want our education system to do

 

[sirable1]

2-unit maths. I even thought about taking up 3-unit, but it had clashes with the 2unit class. It was in a fairly nice room (Building 6 extension), and the casual tutor just basically went over the booklet. There was some that asked questions, but most didn't. There wasn't any interactions with other students like group activities etc.

You're learning a 2 year course in the amounts of 2 weeks, 3 hours per day, 5 days a week.

Which maths bridging course did you do? and was it a class environment where students were asked questions and had activities, etc. Or was it just the lecturer at the front going through the content with no class interaction?

 

[Leffife]

Don't think that any university will actually listen to our opinions. The only time they may consider listening is if a huge group of people fight for this idea. Don't forget that universities are businesses after all.

 

[Mutant Kitty]

It isn't so much about universities as it is about the government I believe.

Maybe I'm just underestimating the power of a good song or painting though, haha.

I think the English course as it currently stands is silly too... Although criteria exists, and many people are probably good at marking it, the subject is inherently reliant on interpretation. For example, in my trial I wrote a creative response loosely based on Carl Panzram, in which incorporated the stimulus quote whilst also exploring not only belonging, but also the elemental aspects of the formation of the desire for it in terms of his experiences (oh no, now I sound like the artist...). It was marked not on merit, but she gave me 6/20 because she "found the subject matter dark", however admitted that my writing and exploration of belonging was fine... Nek minute a story about a fish that gets separated from another fish gets 19/20.
Rant over... No use talking about it. Just annoying...
Anyone else have any rough teachers? Luckily the rest of mine were pretty good.

 

[Absolutezero]

ITT: STEM Overlords

 

[Spiritual Bean]

Unis want and need students. So they don't want to mandate prerequisites. If they do so,they'd be at a disadvantage by excluding students. If you are accepted for Engineering, but shouldn't have been, because of your lack of background, that's your business. Unis want students, need the enrolment and therefore the $$$$ to survive.

@Op - any idea what your artistic friend achieved in her maths (MX1??) and Physics?

I read somewhere that this guy's wife went to uni for the sake of getting an education, did her masters, and never worked (housewife) so doesn't have to repay HEC's debt because doesn't earn money (~45k limit I think it is)

 

[Mutant Kitty]

I read somewhere that this guy's wife went to uni for the sake of getting an education, did her masters, and never worked (housewife) so doesn't have to repay HEC's debt because doesn't earn money (~45k limit I think it is)

Another problem with arts...
A lot of students who take arts and other relatively trivial courses (in terms of employment prospects) rack up these massive HECS debts and never pay them off.
Meanwhile those who actually do something after uni are left to pay theirs. Doesn't make much sense, punishment for working.
As pro-labor as I am, the libs should do something to fix it... maybe without privatising the debt itself.

 

[Zeref]

It isn't so much about universities as it is about the government I believe.

Maybe I'm just underestimating the power of a good song or painting though, haha.

I think the English course as it currently stands is silly too... Although criteria exists, and many people are probably good at marking it, the subject is inherently reliant on interpretation. For example, in my trial I wrote a creative response loosely based on Carl Panzram, in which incorporated the stimulus quote whilst also exploring not only belonging, but also the elemental aspects of the formation of the desire for it in terms of his experiences (oh no, now I sound like the artist...). It was marked not on merit, but she gave me 6/20 because she "found the subject matter dark", however admitted that my writing and exploration of belonging was fine... Nek minute a story about a fish that gets separated from another fish gets 19/20.
Rant over... No use talking about it. Just annoying...
Anyone else have any rough teachers? Luckily the rest of mine were pretty good.

so finding nemo?

well if it makes you feel any better, a guy in my class got 19/20 in a comparative essay without using any techniques and over 9000 use of personal language. one of his paragraph for his chosen text only had 50 words........

 

[Absolutezero]

ITT: No evidence

 

[Spiritual Bean]

ITT: No evidence

Im an independent black girl i dont no need no boy to say i got no proof ya'll