ATAR for PhB @ ANU (1 Viewer)

[Denske]

I'm a 14 year old student wanting to do a PhB at ANU for physics and mathematics in a few years time.

The ATAR I believe is 99,
Classes I'm going to take (in college) : Double Spec Maths, Physics, Chemistry, English.
To give you a view of my level :
I'm currently studying physics as a hobby - Reading lots of books from Stephen Hawking, and have finished the motion area of physics till the point of needed calculus. I'm in the highest mathematics and science class, in the top 10 best mathematics students in my year. I'm studying at ANU for mathematics every Friday starting in October.

Questions :
How is an ATAR scored? If I don't go well in English but really well in Maths, Physics and Chemistry can I still get an ATAR of 99? What is the best time table to be able to achieve an ATAR of 99 (thinking of going to the National Library after school and studying 2-3 hours of maths, 1-2 of physics and an hour of chemistry)?

Thanks!

//Denske

 

[ajdlinux]

The ATAR is calculated over your results in all your subjects. It's a bit different in the ACT (I presume you're Canberran) than in NSW (where most of us on this forum are from) but to achieve 99 you do need to perform well generally.

There's no one way to study. It all depends on what methods work best for you, and how much time you feel you need to put into it. I put quite little effort into the HSC, and I ended up with 93.05 - of course if you want 99+ you'll need to work hard, but just how hard depends on your capabilities. Some people prefer studying in libraries, others prefer staying at home, some people prefer day, others prefer night. The most important thing is to not burn yourself out and keep your life balanced - Year 12 doesn't have to be nearly as stressful as some people make it out to be.

I'm going to take a guess and assume you've been generally accelerated by a couple of years - this will probably help in the application. There have been exceptions to the 99 cutoff (I personally know someone who got in to the PhB this year with a 97-98 ATAR) and your current involvement with ANU maths will probably help in this regard if you don't quite get the marks.

Don't stress yourself out about it - you still have plenty of time to work it all out, and even if you don't get into the PhB, we have excellent BSc and BSc(Adv)(Hons) programs on offer!

 

[aya-chan]

Getting a 99 ATAR will definitely require quite a bit of work. However, the exact amount of study would depend on things like your natural intelligence and how effectively you study. There isn't too much I can say though, being a NSW student, I could just be completely wrong with anything else I say, so I'll just leave it at that.

I have quite a few friends that are currently doing a PhB at ANU, and it really does seem like a great course. I was considering applying to do a PhB some time last year, but my dad convinced me not to apply, saying we/I couldn't afford to move to Canberra. But, I did take a look at the application form. The application form asks you to show your dedication to science. The example that they give on the form for this is being part of the science olympiads - this is how I met the friends that I know are doing a PhB (I was on last year's Asian Physics Olympiad team, and EVERY person I know that does a PhB was once on an olympiad team - note however, that my sample of the cohort would be skewed, you don't HAVE to be on an olympiad team to get into it, and being on a team doesn't automatically put you in the course). I really recommend the olympiads - it is an AMAZING experience; being on a team, you get the experience to travel overseas and meet other gifted science students from around the world and even just making it to the summer camp REALLY boosts things like scholarship applications. Other things that I recommend that you get into are things like the National Youth Science Forum, International Science School and things like that.

Here are the links to the things I mentioned:
Australian Science Olympiads (ASO) - http://www.asi.edu.au/olympiads/
National Youth Science Forum (NYSF) - http://www.nysf.edu.au/
International Science School (ISS) - http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/foundation/iss/iss.shtml

Good luck!

 

[mitchy_boy]

Try and get accelerated in a few subjects, you seem as though you could handle it.
Organise a meeting with the head science teacher, and the principal, to see if it's possible.
The ATAR is a load of crap, but it's immovable. I feel that it's not wholly indicative of ones abilities, or motivations, (I mean why do you need 90+ in english to study physics at uni?).
Just make sure you know everything in the syllabus, and can do most of the maths questions thrown at you.
For english just write thousands of essays, and get them marked.
Good luck

 

[chooette]

Also bear in mind that almost any course can be transferred into if you don't make the cutoff. If your ATAR is close-ish, and you achieve high marks in your first semester/year, you can definitely transfer to the PhB...

Getting high ATARs is definitely individual - I did my assignments and studied for exams, but on the average school night I did no homework/study, and still did well.

 

[EvangelionZeta]

Getting a 99 ATAR will definitely require quite a bit of work. However, the exact amount of study would depend on things like your natural intelligence and how effectively you study. There isn't too much I can say though, being a NSW student, I could just be completely wrong with anything else I say, so I'll just leave it at that.

I have quite a few friends that are currently doing a PhB at ANU, and it really does seem like a great course. I was considering applying to do a PhB some time last year, but my dad convinced me not to apply, saying we/I couldn't afford to move to Canberra. But, I did take a look at the application form. The application form asks you to show your dedication to science. The example that they give on the form for this is being part of the science olympiads - this is how I met the friends that I know are doing a PhB (I was on last year's Asian Physics Olympiad team, and EVERY person I know that does a PhB was once on an olympiad team - note however, that my sample of the cohort would be skewed, you don't HAVE to be on an olympiad team to get into it, and being on a team doesn't automatically put you in the course). I really recommend the olympiads - it is an AMAZING experience; being on a team, you get the experience to travel overseas and meet other gifted science students from around the world and even just making it to the summer camp REALLY boosts things like scholarship applications. Other things that I recommend that you get into are things like the National Youth Science Forum, International Science School and things like that.

Here are the links to the things I mentioned:
Australian Science Olympiads (ASO) - http://www.asi.edu.au/olympiads/
National Youth Science Forum (NYSF) - http://www.nysf.edu.au/
International Science School (ISS) - http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/foundation/iss/iss.shtml

Good luck!

...is that...IU...?

 

[nisseltaria]

The ATAR is a load of crap, but it's immovable. I feel that it's not wholly indicative of ones abilities, or motivations, (I mean why do you need 90+ in english to study physics at uni?).

Agreed. The system is based on the premise that it will measure the general ability to study of students and that you shouldn't expect Year 10 students to have any clue what their interests and aptitudes might be.
I would argue that both of those assumptions are false.
Students do have different aptitudes which affect the ability to study in a subject, so student choices will affect the demonstrated ability to study. Arbitrary restrictions on the ability to choose subjects can then be inferred to affect the demonstrated ability to study of a student - particularly where the student's interests and aptitudes lie far from the compulsory subjects.
Students in Year 10 should have some idea which subjects they excel in, and if there are any subjects they find fascinating. By this stage they are able to choose to drop out of education or pursue vocational training. There is no reason that they should not have some idea that they might like to go to university, and there is no reason that they should not know what broad field they might enjoy studying. It is unreasonable to expect them to know the exact course they want to do, but it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to know that they find history interesting (or visual art, or biology,...).
Not expecting them to plan ahead means that universities have to be prepared to enroll students who do not have the skills needed to be successful in the introductory courses of a degree. The brightest students can overcome this disadvantage unaided, while others need to be catered to with bridging courses - which is a valid means to overcome lack of pre-requisite knowledge - or by creating lower level courses at the university and allowing students to take those for equivalent academic credit to the normal introductory courses - which means that students who have covered substantially less material than others are indistinguishable on paper, unless you know the course structure at their university. And all this effort is needed because Susie and Ben decided at the last minute that they really liked Physics despite not having done any science or maths subjects for the HSC, and UAC declared that their 95 ATARs based on EngExt2, Modern History, Society and Culture and Studies of Religion II meant that they were more than capable of understanding special relativity.

Also bear in mind that almost any course can be transferred into if you don't make the cutoff. If your ATAR is close-ish, and you achieve high marks in your first semester/year, you can definitely transfer to the PhB...

Definitely. I know someone who didn't realise the BEngineering(R&D) degree (Engineering PhB) existed until after she started her BEng, and she transferred after meeting the required average in semester 1.

Also, aya-chan gives good advice and all of those programs are great fun for anyone with an interest in science.


If you are particularly worried about your English mark bringing you below the cut-off then you should contact the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences. If you have extremely high marks in the relevant subjects and demonstrate interest outside of school with summer camps and the like they may choose to accept you purely based on that - especially if you are accelerated.

Good luck.

 

[ajdlinux]

I can also confirm (people I know) that the ATAR requirement is NOT strict - they will admit people who come slightly under the cutoff; it's all considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

[dougaljess]

You need to be good at English because as a PhB student, even a science one, they need to know you are of high literacy ability and can write HD essays consistently because that's what you'll be doing - writing up your findings with the preparation to present to others, including those not familiar with science, and you need excellent English skills for that. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a mathematics/science degree so you can study the two things you enjoy?

 

[humphdogg]

You need to be good at English because as a PhB student, even a science one, they need to know you are of high literacy ability and can write HD essays consistently because that's what you'll be doing - writing up your findings with the preparation to present to others, including those not familiar with science, and you need excellent English skills for that. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a mathematics/science degree so you can study the two things you enjoy?

What are you on about? When would you ever write up reports for those not familiar with science? My ASC reports were only ever read by maths professors, and presented to mathematicians and fellow maths students.

And PhB is a science degree (well, the PhB Science degree is, as opposed to PhB Arts or PhB Asian Studies). There are plenty of extremely talented scientists out there who probably did terribly at English in high school. Admittedly, it is beneficial to be good at presenting your ideas, and I've read plenty of groundbreaking papers that weren't presented as well as they could have been, but it doesn't detract significantly from the scientific capabilities of the author.

So really, you just need to be good enough at English to get a high enough ATAR score, but it would be useful to be good at expressing your scientific ideas clearly and concisely.

 

[humphdogg]

So... what I said then? High enough literary ability to present your ideas well...?

Are you enjoying trolling all of my posts?

You don't need to be good at English - and many scientists aren't. I just said that it's beneficial.

And not that you would know, because you left the PhB years ago, but they've started having PhB Arts/Science presentation days where students present the findings of their research. So at times, perhaps students wanting to be scientists may have to communicate with teachers and students who are not scientifically inclined.

They had those when I was there (in fact, I think they've had those since about the year after the PhB was first introduced). As a mathematician, these were pointless; even most physics students wouldn't have enough of a background to understand a talk about a later-year maths ASC, no matter how much you might try to dumb it down. I can understand why it might be useful for other areas though. But in general, as a scientist, it is useful to be able to explain your research to someone in your field or a nearby field, but more than that isn't particularly important.

You make it sound like PhB Science students have to write essays and explain their research to non-scientists, which simply isn't true; PhB Science ASCs tend to be scientific reports, which have an extremely different flavour to an Arts essay and have little to do with English literacy, and these scientific reports need only be understood by your ASC supervisor, not by the general public.

’The PhB is an science degree, unless you are doing arts.’ Don't be daft. It's a research degree with arts and science streams.

Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a mathematics/science degree so you can study the two things you enjoy?

? I was trying to understand why you would write this. And in any case, PhB encompasses three different degrees that share a similar (but nonidentical) structure. I was talking about the PhB Science degree, as that was what the OP was asking about. I can't understand for the life of me why you would suggest to the OP to do a mathematics/science degree instead when PhB Science is a science degree for people interested in doing research in science.