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theism

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my parents aren't heavily into any religion, however my step-mum was married in a catholic chruch... for her first marriage. But we don't go to church or anything.

When I was living with my mum i was a church-goer. not anymore, i was heavily involved when i lived with my mum, going to the exo days, i was a sunday school helper, youth group attender, but now everythings just gone to shit.

I think my faith was lost in the so-called God when everything went downhill for me in a bad way, I prayed and worshipped throughout the hardship, but nothing made anything better. So I guess thats when I gave up.
That is very sad to hear.
Please get back
if you don't mind.,
please turn with me to the Matthew 24:3-44.
the prodigal son.

btw, feel free to PM me,
i would like to know what made things go downhill.

you know the bible says,
that God will never leave you, nor forsake you.
and i believe he keeps his promises.
 

theism

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So rejecting the institution of religion - which by the way, does not automatically mean rejecting the teachings of the Bible, which many people believe needs to be taken metaphorically, not literally (because, hey Leviticus?) but instead rejecting the people who control religion - is also rejecting God?

The institution of religion is controlled by man these days and I think it's been proved countless times how fallible man is. I don't see how loving God and living a simple but morally sound (that is, being in line with the basics of his teachings) but rejecting what has, at times, been a violent and Godless institution controlled by people who are open to the same temptations as those they teach, would lead you straight to hell.
I understand when you say man (church) has ruined God's image.
I think that epitomizes that V8 campaign 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever)

you don't have to go to a church to be a christian,
but it's strongly encouraged to.

but church doesn't have to be a building,
can just be a group of christians (or non-christians) that read and study the bible, have prayer meetings, etc.

it's also interesting to note that the word believe, in the context of when the bible was written,
was not the 'believe' we know today,
but ' be at peace with', or 'obey'.
so to 'believe in God' meant actually to obey him, having the fear of God
 
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Tulipa

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What if you don't know any other Christians but still believe in God, live a morally sound life and follow what you believe the Bible is teaching? Why do you have to congregate with other Christians just to get into heaven? What is wrong with keeping your faith to yourself?

How is that not enough?
 

theism

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What if you don't know any other Christians but still believe in God, live a morally sound life and follow what you believe the Bible is teaching? Why do you have to congregate with other Christians just to get into heaven? What is wrong with keeping your faith to yourself?

How is that not enough?
well the importance of fellowship is highlighted in the bible.

here's a few articles i just got from googling.

The Importance of Fellowship in a New Testament Church | Bible.org
Fellowship - FM


you know,
my youth leader, who's an awesome man of God
told me when he was first introduced to christianity,
he HATED church with a passion.
he didn't go for a few years,
instead he went to a bible study that was held on a tuesday.
 

moll.

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agnosticism..
not in the pure sense though.

Merely believing in God won't get you anywhere

yes, even you christians among here.
just to 'believe in God' won't get you into heaven.
Epic fail.
That's not agnosticism at all.
 

theism

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Epic fail.
That's not agnosticism at all.
haha no
not the proper deff.
but it's not mutually exclusive.

it's funny though,
i've never met a true agnostic.
but they just say they're.

in my opinion, they've just been either lazy theists, or lazy atheists.
 

Cookie182

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haha no
not the proper deff.
but it's not mutually exclusive.

it's funny though,
i've never met a true agnostic.
but they just say they're.

in my opinion, they've just been either lazy theists, or lazy atheists.
You sir, represent the very living definition of idiocy.

Your unduly endorsement of a pandering, insipid, celestial dictatorship stands as nothing more then an advancement of eternal totalitarianism and is worthy of the highest moral condemnation. The refinement of your ghastly and dire wish is that to be a slave. Through ramblings of considerable prolixity, you aim to do nothing more then subject humanity to the unyielding wrath of an unchallengeable, tyrannical authority of which upholds total surveillance over even the most private desires of our minds. This indignant proclamation of a sinister fairytale does no less harm to truth then a high court judge held in contempt and is of the utmost offence to those with no religion who hold to the calming and progressive views of the enlightenment.

Not only have you brought great shame to your own status as an intellectual but you have done a great systematic injustice to philosophical discourse.

If you were to be given an enema, far more truth would hold to the trenchant witticism, that you sir, could be buried in a matchbox.
 

theism

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You sir, represent the very living definition of idiocy.

Your unduly endorsement of a pandering, insipid, celestial dictatorship stands as nothing more then an advancement of eternal totalitarianism and is worthy of the highest moral condemnation. The refinement of your ghastly and dire wish is that to be a slave. Through ramblings of considerable prolixity, you aim to do nothing more then subject humanity to the unyielding wrath of an unchallengeable, tyrannical authority of which upholds total surveillance over even the most private desires of our minds. This indignant proclamation of a sinister fairytale does no less harm to truth then a high court judge held in contempt and is of the utmost offence to those with no religion who hold to the calming and progressive views of the enlightenment.

Not only have you brought great shame to your own status as an intellectual but you have done a great systematic injustice to philosophical discourse.

If you were to be given an enema, far more truth would hold to the trenchant witticism, that you sir, could be buried in a matchbox.
tl;dr

lawl.
 

blue_chameleon

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I guess everybody needs to believe in something. Whether that there is a God or that we only answer to ourselves.

Just don't preach it to me, i'll find it myself, amongst good company.

The sad thing is that throughout history it has never been enough just to accept that somebody else may have an opposing view. Whether this is out of fear or love I'm not sure.

Ultimately, no one's going to be converted via online forum. Get out there and lead your life as an example of what you believe in.

"Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." - John 3:18 something something. <3 Google.
 

blue_chameleon

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i wanted to write so much more, but i just couldnt get it to sound right.

so i'm just gunna say that i agree with Tulipa (which, in essence, was what i was gunna say anyway)
Wait, what was that (Tulipa's stance)?
 

Kwayera

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Here's some definitions regarding agnosticism, for those playing at home or those too lazy to look it up themselves. (Thanks, Wikipedia).


Strong agnosticism (also called "hard," "closed," "strict," or "permanent agnosticism"): the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience. A strong agnostic would say, "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you."

Weak agnosticism (also called "soft," "open," "empirical," or "temporal agnosticism"): the view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if any evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day when there is evidence we can find something out."

Apathetic agnosticism (also called Pragmatic agnosticism): the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity, but since any deity that may exist appears unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic.

Agnostic atheism: the view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, and do not believe in any.

Agnostic theism (also called "spiritual agnosticism"): the view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence. Søren Kierkegaard believed that knowledge of any deity is impossible, and because of that people who want to be theists must believe: "If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe."

Ignosticism: the view that a coherent definition of a deity must be put forward before the question of the existence of a deity can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition isn't coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of a deity is meaningless or empirically untestable. A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept "a deity exists" as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against. An ignostic cannot even say whether he/she is a theist or a nontheist until a better definition of theism is put forth.


I would fall under the "agnostic atheist" category.
 

MissGiggles

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Hey Theism, i am amazed at just how much knowledge about Christianity you have, but you are missing a few points

1)a major teaching of the Church is Salvation by Faith Alone. i know that you are are a terrible Christian if you sin, but God is said to be willing to give anyone a clean slate who repents, and if you have a clean slate its a free pass.

2) God is omnipresent, and even if there was a place he decided not to go to, he would still have complete power over it. a place without God isn't what the Church teaches anyway

a very big point i would like to make is how the Bible was created. a group of men scattered across the Middle East kept hearing STORIES about a man who died BEFORE they were born and decided to write them down. several hundered years later another group of men decided to take the Gospels THEY LIKED (eg the uninclusion of Mary Magdelene and Judas' Gospels) and put it in a book. they went around telling anyone who would listen it was 100 percent acurate and they would be punished if they didn't find a copy. a perfect marketing scam with people who had no education whatsoever.
 

theism

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Ultimately, no one's going to be converted via online forum. Get out there and lead your life as an example of what you believe in.
I'm not converting anyone, I'm encouraging people to get back on their walk.

I am sowing seeds so to speak.

I don't think i'll meet most of the people here,
so they can't see the good in my actions
 

Tulipa

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Wait, what was that (Tulipa's stance)?
My stance, in general, is that I'm an athiest but I was just pointing out flaws in theism's argument and questioning why you have to be part of institutionalised religion to get into heaven.

That being said, I don't believe in God, heaven, hell or religion. None of it makes sense to me.
 

theism

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Hi MissGiggles, I am familiar with all of those points.

1)a major teaching of the Church is Salvation by Faith Alone. i know that you are are a terrible Christian if you sin, but God is said to be willing to give anyone a clean slate who repents, and if you have a clean slate its a free pass.
Salvation is a process.
It is not simply a one-time-prayer done in haste at an altar call.
Faith is only part of the equation.

Salvation has many components:
1. saved by grace – Rom. 3:23,24; Titus 2:11; Eph 2:5,8
2. saved by faith – Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8; I Peter 1:9
3. saved by confession – Rom. 10:10; I John 1:9; James 5:16
4. saved by repentance – Luke 13:3; II Cor. 7:10; II Peter 3:9
5. saved by baptism – Mark 16:16; John 3:5; I Peter 3:21
6. saved by the Holy Ghost – John 3:5; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 1:13,14
7. saved by endurance – II Tim. 2:10; James 1:12; Heb. 3:6

I believe (please understand that this is my perspective) you do not go to heaven by just 'believing in God'.
I can believe that the sun will rise again tomorrow, but what good is it if i just sit on my arse and watch TV all day?


2) God is omnipresent, and even if there was a place he decided not to go to, he would still have complete power over it. a place without God isn't what the Church teaches anyway
I don't understand your point here

a very big point i would like to make is how the Bible was created. a group of men scattered across the Middle East kept hearing STORIES about a man who died BEFORE they were born and decided to write them down. several hundered years later another group of men decided to take the Gospels THEY LIKED (eg the uninclusion of Mary Magdelene and Judas' Gospels) and put it in a book. they went around telling anyone who would listen it was 100 percent acurate and they would be punished if they didn't find a copy. a perfect marketing scam with people who had no education whatsoever.
I am familiar with the canonization of the bible.
and i disagree.
here's a link you might be interested in
 
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theism

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My stance, in general, is that I'm an athiest but I was just pointing out flaws in theism's argument and questioning why you have to be part of institutionalised religion to get into heaven.

That being said, I don't believe in God, heaven, hell or religion. None of it makes sense to me.
mm let's get back on that.
did that make sense to you?
those articles on fellowship.
 

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