atom bomb/terrorism (1 Viewer)

[0Jade0]

If it was a revenge attack, they would have flow over and bombed in 1941 not 1945.
It was an attack to stop the war.

 

[Generator]

The justification usually used for dropping the bomb is "it ended the war", i'm sure that if american soldiers had gone into a german city, killing 180,000 men, women & children indiscriminately, destroying all their buildings, the germans may have given up in the face of this unspeakable evil and it would have ended the war.

Dresden, anyone? It was bad enough, anyway.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

But the situation wasn't like that, it was war.
So the attack on Pearl Harbour was cheating also?

As for guidlines and human dignity: How about the POW camps? Did the Japanese abide by the guidelines?

Re-read and you will see I was referring to terrorism in general; I did not mention anything about WW2.

 

[0Jade0]

Re-read and you will see I was referring to terrorism in general; I did not mention anything about WW2.

You quoted my post and I was talking about WW2.

 

[Xayma]

Dropping the A-Bomb on Japan is one of the greatest military travesties that have ever occured, it did however occur in a time of great confusion & anger.

The justification usually used for dropping the bomb is "it ended the war", i'm sure that if american soldiers had gone into a german city, killing 180,000 men, women & children indiscriminately, destroying all their buildings, the germans may have given up in the face of this unspeakable evil and it would have ended the war.

But getting the soldiers there would've cost a greater deal of lives on both sides. By the time the atom bomb was developed it wouldnt have saved lives in the Germany campaign however it did in the Pacific Theatre.

Leetom: It would've involved street to street fighting for months to get Japan to surrender. The troops were waving flags off building tops in Berlin before Germany surended. A similar situation wouldve occured in Japan.

 

[0Jade0]

I believe the war in germany was over by that time.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No, the projection of "1000000" american casulties is very over-done, most analysts these days would put it more at 100,000.

And it wouldn't have been men, women and children indiscriminately.

 

[Xayma]

True but what about the Japanese casualities?

Note: I didn't say 1 000 000.

Ahh I see where you got it from, greater loss of lives as in what occured (0 allied deaths, 180 000 Japanese, it wouldve been much greater for both)

Bombing raids would've continued on military targets, including cities.

 

[leetom]

If it was a revenge attack, they would have flow over and bombed in 1941 not 1945.
It was an attack to stop the war.

The content of your posts is very ambiguous.

What are you talking about? The atomic bomb did not exist in 1941. The Japanese still had control of the Western Pacific in 1941, making a bombing run near impossible.

While it did bring an abrupt halt to hostilities, the war would have ended without the bomb and the shocking deaths of hundreds of thousands could have been avoided.

 

[0Jade0]

I realise this. What I was pointing out was, it wasn't a revenge attack.

That's war, that's what happens. People die. Japan brought the U.S into the war, that's their problem. I doubt that they Emperor would have been persuaded to end the war.

 

[leetom]

But getting the soldiers there would've cost a greater deal of lives on both sides. By the time the atom bomb was developed it wouldnt have saved lives in the Germany campaign however it did in the Pacific Theatre.

Leetom: It would've involved street to street fighting for months to get Japan to surrender. The troops were waving flags off building tops in Berlin before Germany surended. A similar situation wouldve occured in Japan.

For Japan to surrender, the Emperor had only to say the word. The Prime Minister and his Cabinet all sought peace. The Army and Navy heads, along with the Superpatriot groups campaigned for resistance to the end. The Emperor, passive up until 1945, was in agreement with the Prime Minister amd strongly leaning towards a surrender.

Even after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and with the Emperor's announcement of surrender, 2000 officers and the leaders of the fight-to-the-finish camp killed themselves.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Leetom, if he was so close to surrender, how come 1 bombing didn't get him to surrender?

 

[chair_stapler]

What if a country was to drop a "weapon of mass destrution" on America that would certainly be terrorism and these weapons certainly exist as well thats why when we cant find any we take your attention away from that by looking for Saddam Hussain. And whatever happened to finding Bin Laden as well they never got him.

The people have been lied to yet George W Bush is still re-elected. Just doesnt make sense.

 

[Generator]

Hmmm... This is somewhat interesting, with Japan rewriting the past and all. I would really like to look into what has been written about the Japanese surrender at some stage. Learning Japanese may be a bitch, though.

 

[leetom]

I realise this. What I was pointing out was, it wasn't a revenge attack.

That's war, that's what happens. People die. Japan brought the U.S into the war, that's their problem. I doubt that they Emperor would have been persuaded to end the war.

'That's war, that's what happens. People die.' And yet you are offended by the atrocities committed by the Japanese in their POW camps.

Yours is a very shallow view. IMO, there is room for enough humanism to tell a world leader that the shocking suffering of 200 000 is something to be avoided.

I am telling you now. The Emperor was persuaded and personnally believed in the need to end te war. He expressed and admirable care for his people, not wanting to prolong their suffering.

Prime Minister Suzuki played a key role in shifting the Emperor's neutrality

 

[townie]

There was no justification for killing civilians like that, in such a horrible way. it was heinous, and just as bad as hitler in my opinion. america is a hypocrite in so many ways, and i'm sure, one day, they'll fuck us all over *regrets the fact that he's american*

P.S. i shouldnt really say America, i more mean, American government, and some citizens

 

[leetom]

Leetom, if he was so close to surrender, how come 1 bombing didn't get him to surrender?

One atomic bombing or one of the B-29 incindiary bombings? Whichever you mean, no nation throws in the towel after one bombing, but when all your major cities are devoid of any infrastructure whatsoever is a different situation. Don't roll your eyes at me. I suspect I know alot more about the situation in Japan at the time than you do.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

One atomic bombing or one of the B-29 incindiary bombings? Whichever you mean, no nation throws in the towel after one bombing, but when all your major cities are devoid of any infrastructure whatsoever is a different situation. Don't roll your eyes at me. I suspect I know alot more about the situation in Japan at the time than you do.

I'm sorry ww2 japan historian.

 

[0Jade0]

'That's war, that's what happens. People die.' And yet you are offended by the atrocities committed by the Japanese in their POW camps.

Yours is a very shallow view. IMO, there is room for enough humanism to tell a world leader that the shocking suffering of 200 000 is something to be avoided.

I am telling you now. The Emperor was persuaded and personnally believed in the need to end te war. He expressed and admirable care for his people, not wanting to prolong their suffering.

Prime Minister Suzuki played a key role in shifting the Emperor's neutrality

Well that's my opinion. Deal with it.
Bombing and what went on in those camps are totally different. Because of course, if Japan had the bomb they wouldn't have dropped it on the US... or Australia... no of course not.

 

[leetom]

Hmmm... This is somewhat interesting, with Japan rewriting the past and all. I would really like to look into what has been written about the Japanese surrender at some stage. Learning Japanese may be a bitch, though.

I'd recommend I saw Tokyo burning- an eyewitness account from Pearl Harbour to Hiroshima written by a Frenchman- Robert Guilland. He was a journalist in Tokyo at the time.

And learning Japanese IS a bitch. European languages are much better.