Australian economy completely avoids recession (2 Viewers)

[Garygaz]

False. Japan is our biggest trading partner. China sure helps but don't make the mistake of assuming they're the be all, end all.

Also, those GDP growth figures were in SPITE of a large drop in exports, causing an unexpected trade deficit blowout.

Japan is growing at about 2% (11.7% decline in economic activity in the first 3 months of 09) and has a population of 127 million. Chinas growth was 10.5% last year (8% expected this year) and has a population of 6 billion. Which do you think will be the be all and end all for our economy? China is by far our most important trading partner.

Japan has gone through government after government trying to bring it back to the growth it experienced pre-90s, it ain't gonna happen. It's peeaaakkkeedd.

 

[murphyad]

Yeah massive debt is great fiscal management.

Oh, how old this argument is getting..........

Firstly, the debt is not so "massive" as the Libs would have you believe. When Turnbull quotes Howard's debt repayments compared to the projected (read: projected) debt of Rudd's, he uses net debt for Howard and gross debt for Rudd. The difference is $100 billion of cash and liquid assets that makes Rudd's situation appear far more dire than it really is.

Secondly, the $315 billion figure used by the Libs is fundamentally erroneous. This figure was forecast based a far worse economic situation than is currently occurring. In fact, the currently-forecast debt peak is only two-thirds of what Turnbull and his misdirected ideologues suggest.

Thirdly, there is no silver bullet for these financial troubles. Australia's projected peak debt will be only a few percent of the country's GDP, the lowest of all OECD countries. Compare this to Japan, where debt is currently 130% of GDP, and the newly-elected government actually wants to increase that debt for social reasons. The fact that some political elements in this country could actually criticise this country's level of projected debt is simply neoliberal scaremongering that is totally without credence.

It's amazing what this country's right wing thinks it can get away with.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

China [...] has a population of 6 billion.

Of course it does. I'm sorry I ever doubted you.

 

[Garygaz]

Of course it does. I'm sorry I ever doubted you.

Clearly meant 1.5 but mistypes often happen. Hopefully you can see my overriding point.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Oh, how old this argument is getting..........

Firstly, the debt is not so "massive" as the Libs would have you believe. When Turnbull quotes Howard's debt repayments compared to the projected (read: projected) debt of Rudd's, he uses net debt for Howard and gross debt for Rudd. The difference is $100 billion of cash and liquid assets that makes Rudd's situation appear far more dire than it really is.

Secondly, the $315 billion figure used by the Libs is fundamentally erroneous. This figure was forecast based a far worse economic situation than is currently occurring. In fact, the currently-forecast debt peak is only two-thirds of what Turnbull and his misdirected ideologues suggest.

Thirdly, there is no silver bullet for these financial troubles. Australia's projected peak debt will be only a few percent of the country's GDP, the lowest of all OECD countries. Compare this to Japan, where debt is currently 130% of GDP, and the newly-elected government actually wants to increase that debt for social reasons. The fact that some political elements in this country could actually criticise this country's level of projected debt is simply neoliberal scaremongering that is totally without credence.

It's amazing what this country's right wing thinks it can get away with.

Your spiel could probably be spun as accurate to an extent. However, it is very easy to spend money when you never have to repay it. When a Labor government decides to reduce national debt, then you can claim the moral high ground. It is churlish to suggest that Turnbull's fears for the economy are unfounded. Rudd does not deserve our congratulations. Considering the tens of billions spent, avoiding a 'technical recession' is the least we could have hoped for.

 

[murphyad]

....it is very easy to spend money when you never have to repay it.

The reverse is also true: repaying money is easy when you never spend much of it, which is exactly what we see in Liberal governments. However, I would definitely prefer the former in light of our current economic situation.

When a Labor government decides to reduce national debt, then you can claim the moral high ground.

Ah, the appeal to tradition. How about this: if this Labor government doesn't repay it's debts, then perhaps you will be justified in labelling my views as "spiel". Until then, we should base our judgements on the information we actually have on the current situation (what I am doing) as opposed to speculation based on past (irrelevant) events that do not pertain in any way to the current situation (what you are doing).

It is churlish to suggest that Turnbull's fears for the economy are unfounded. Rudd does not deserve our congratulations.

Again, this is simply ignorance. Do I need to trot out the same old economic data that has denoted the worth of the Rudd gvt's actions over the past few months? By the way, Turnbull's 'economic fears' are based on juvenile populism: first it was, 'the stimulus is bad!' Now it is 'the stimulus worked, but we should slow down!' Quite the about-face; I wonder what will be next? Also, did you know Turnbull's economic advisor resigned in disgust some time ago due to the drivel T. consisted to insist upon as economic policy? Not even the economists want a part of it. Are they also, as you put it, "churlish"?

 

[ad infinitum]

The reverse is also true: repaying money is easy when you never spend much of it, which is exactly what we see in Liberal governments. However, I would definitely prefer the former in light of our current economic situation.



Ah, the appeal to tradition. How about this: if this Labor government doesn't repay it's debts, then perhaps you will be justified in labelling my views as "spiel". Until then, we should base our judgements on the information we actually have on the current situation (what I am doing) as opposed to speculation based on past (irrelevant) events that do not pertain in any way to the current situation (what you are doing).



Again, this is simply ignorance. Do I need to trot out the same old economic data that has denoted the worth of the Rudd gvt's actions over the past few months? By the way, Turnbull's 'economic fears' are based on juvenile populism: first it was, 'the stimulus is bad!' Now it is 'the stimulus worked, but we should slow down!' Quite the about-face; I wonder what will be next? Also, did you know Turnbull's economic advisor resigned in disgust some time ago due to the drivel T. consisted to insist upon as economic policy? Not even the economists want a part of it. Are they also, as you put it, "churlish"?

keep your ill informed opions and Rudd worshipping out of intellegent debate please. It's sheep like you that Rudd panders to, and if you wish to be his pet then so be it, but you must keep the rest of us out of it.

 

[murphyad]

keep your ill informed opions......out of intellegent debate please.

Please specify which and we shall go from there.

It's sheep like you that Rudd panders to, and if you wish to be his pet then so be it, but you must keep the rest of us out of it.

Sorry if this is the impression I gave, but the way I see it, it is just credit where credit is due. The fact is that the policies of the rudd government have indubitably had some effect on this country's economic situation. This is a matter of statistical fact; the data is there to support it. Based on this, I am disinclined to appreciate your ad hominem slander.

 

[ad infinitum]

hhhaahhahahaha Rudd's claim that his stimulus has shielded Australia from a reccession is unfalsifiable, if we had gone into recession Rudd would have simply claimed that his stimulus has protected Australia from a worse reccession, and so on. Rudd's cash splash was nothing more than that, a cash splash to credulous bogans like yourself. He is simply trying to reinflate (or keep inflated) a bubble agasint a correction.
If anything helped Australia stay out of a reccesion it was China's stimulus.
It is quite clear that you want papa Rudd to run your life and your money, but please keep your servile grovelling to yourself.

 

[SashatheMan]

I predict people being unable to pay for the houses they bought after rushing in due to the FHOG. A hike in 2% interest rates will put a lot of people over their limits.
The economy could suffer again, or at least it's people.

 

[murphyad]

Wow. I thought you said that this was meant to be an intelligent debate. Yet the ad hominem continues........

hhhaahhahahaha Rudd's claim that his stimulus has shielded Australia from a reccession is unfalsifiable, if we had gone into recession Rudd would have simply claimed that his stimulus has protected Australia from a worse reccession, and so on.

Yes, that's because it would have. Do you have any knowledge of economics whatsoever? Now I'm not saying I know it all, but I have tried to find opposition to Rudd's stimulus in a reputable business or economically related publication (BRW etc.) and cannot. In the economic forum, the consensus is there. The statistics are there. The logic is there. The stimulus helped.

Rudd's cash splash was nothing more than that, a cash splash to credulous bogans like yourself.

Read: noticeable increase in consumer confidence and consumer spending. Even The Australian agrees:

Rudd stimulus handouts help consumer confidence soar | The Australian

You are wrong again. Please, check your facts before you come to the table with unsubstantiated rubbish.

If anything helped Australia stay out of a reccesion it was China's stimulus.

I am certain it had a role to play. But it was not the sole factor.

It is quite clear that you want papa Rudd to run your life and your money, but please keep your servile grovelling to yourself.

I believe that this could be answered with another of your quotes: "keep your ill-informed opinions out of intelligent debate please".

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Your spiel could probably be spun as accurate to an extent. However, it is very easy to spend money when you never have to repay it. When a Labor government decides to reduce national debt, then you can claim the moral high ground.

Hawke-Keating.

Q.E.D.

 

[Planck]

You're fucking kidding me right.

We're a year away from a far worse crash because of all the stimulus.

Woo! Generating industries that are unsustainable!

 

[Planck]

Woo lets print more fuckin worthless currency and fuckin give it out to poor bogans we'll all be millionaires

Run the printing presses people wooooo

 

[Planck]

Woo lets print more fuckin worthless currency and fuckin give it out to poor bogans we'll all be millionaires

Run the printing presses people wooooo

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

The Reserve Bank was trying to lower the value of our dollar for export purposes. It didn't work. lol

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

woo lets print more fuckin worthless currency and fuckin give it out to poor bogans we'll all be millionaires

run the printing presses people wooooo

how can you got this?!?

 

[absorber]

hhhaahhahahaha Rudd's claim that his stimulus has shielded Australia from a reccession is unfalsifiable, if we had gone into recession Rudd would have simply claimed that his stimulus has protected Australia from a worse reccession, and so on. Rudd's cash splash was nothing more than that, a cash splash to credulous bogans like yourself. He is simply trying to reinflate (or keep inflated) a bubble agasint a correction.
If anything helped Australia stay out of a reccesion it was China's stimulus.
It is quite clear that you want papa Rudd to run your life and your money, but please keep your servile grovelling to yourself.

Both the IMF and Ken Henry have conceded the effectiveness of Australia's stimulus measures. Are you more qualified?

 

[justanotherposter]

Woo lets print more fuckin worthless currency and fuckin give it out to poor bogans we'll all be millionaires

Run the printing presses people wooooo

Nah, fuck that - let's just send everyone their own printing press, it's so much easier that way.

 

[loquasagacious]

Woo lets print more fuckin worthless currency and fuckin give it out to poor bogans we'll all be millionaires

Run the printing presses people wooooo

That's job creation in the printing press injury... are you against jobs?!