Australian Politics (6 Viewers)

[Graney]

i don't recall learning about climate science in high school. just wondering what the point is. is it a module in 6th stage chemistry or something?



whats in the syllabus br8

I remember learning about the hydrologic cycle (which is weather, but y'know).

 

[funkshen]

I remember learning about the hydrologic cycle (which is weather, but y'know).

yeah, but the hydrologic cycle isn't ''environmental propaganda material, in particular post-normal science about climate change'' concocted by "''false prophets who would poison the minds of our children in our schools''.

 

[mirakon]

Learnt about global warming etc in year 10 science and year 8 geography I think

 

[Lolsmith]

whats in the syllabus br8

Basically, due to the stimulus packages enacted by the Rudd Government, we were saved from recession

 

[funkshen]

Basically, due to the stimulus packages enacted by the Rudd Government, we were saved from recession

you're right, the economics syllabus should be rewritten by the institute for public affairs

come to think of it, and without seeing the syllabus and whatever normative claims they make, the stimulus package is probably a pretty good case study for students and teachers. it demonstrates the fundamentals learned in high school economics (national income accounting, aggregate demand/supply and equilibrium analysis) and definitely vindicates the syllabus.

 

[Lolsmith]

you're right, the economics syllabus should be rewritten by the institute for public affairs

come to think of it, and without seeing the syllabus and whatever normative claims they make, the stimulus package is probably a pretty good case study for students and teachers. it demonstrates the fundamentals learned in high school economics (national income accounting, aggregate demand/supply and equilibrium analysis) and definitely vindicates the syllabus.

It is a very good case study for macroeconomic policy and direct intervention in the economy by the State, especially once the actual effects on inflation and costs as well as if any realistic or sustainable growth can be ascertained as a result of it. Being told that it was helpful, it was needed and that it was a good idea before any of this, is nothing other than being a fucking shill for the labor party

 

[soloooooo]

Basically, due to the stimulus packages enacted by the Rudd Government, we were saved from recession

I don't know about that. I wouldn't say no to another $900 if the government wanted to give it to me though.

 

[Chemical Ali]

i don't recall learning about climate science in high school. just wondering what the point is. is it a module in 6th stage chemistry or something?

NSW Stage 5 Science (year 9 or 10)

5.11.2 waste from resource use
a) relate pollution to contamination by unwanted substances
b) identify excessive use of fossil fuels as a contributing factor to a
greenhouse effect
c) discuss strategies used to balance human activities and needs in ecosystems
with conserving, protecting and maintaining the quality and sustainability
of the environment

realistically you would have spent about 1 or 2 lessons on it in year 10

also hey what happened to rep

 

[Lolsmith]

also hey what happened to rep

they stoles it from us

how's the PhD in hitlerist globalist climate change going

 

[mirakon]

It is a very good case study for macroeconomic policy and direct intervention in the economy by the State, especially once the actual effects on inflation and costs as well as if any realistic or sustainable growth can be ascertained as a result of it. Being told that it was helpful, it was needed and that it was a good idea before any of this, is nothing other than being a fucking shill for the labor party

Surely there is something in the syllabus that encourages students to think independently and form their own opinions on the stimulus package? or is the view that it was beneficial explicitly stated in the syllabus?

 

[Lolsmith]

Surely there is something in the syllabus that encourages students to think independently and form their own opinions on the stimulus package? or is the view that it was beneficial explicitly stated in the syllabus?

It wouldn't be explicit like that, no (especially since it's set by the state government). But I can be certain that many of the teachers that do and have taught this information have said that it was a positive thing for the economy. I definitely was.

 

[mirakon]

But bias can exist both ways, I know as a fact that the two teachers who taught economics at my school had a very obvious anti-labor bias. The fact is, whatever you do to the syllabus, there will always be some form of bias inherent in some teachers imo. I guess the point of view that students end up adopting may be influenced by this, but in the end an able student with the capability to think independently should be able to form their own opinions regardless of the bias of their teacher

 

[kfnmpah]

You would think that independent thinking would be encouraged, but it rarely is. Not until you get to uni and you discover that ticking the boxes doesn't cut the mustard. It's because of the nature of schooling in Australia. How well you perform in the HSC governs what uni you get into/what you study etc and a lot of the time, students just want to tick the syllabus boxes. How many times were you in class and someone asked 'which dot point is this?' ?
How do you study for the HSC? you go through the syllabus dot points.

Rote learning at it's finest.

 

[funkshen]

It is a very good case study for macroeconomic policy and direct intervention in the economy by the State, especially once the actual effects on inflation and costs as well as if any realistic or sustainable growth can be ascertained as a result of it. Being told that it was helpful, it was needed and that it was a good idea before any of this, is nothing other than being a fucking shill for the labor party

i don't know if you paid any attention in class (i take it you took highschool economics) but, as i said, that's what the syllabus teaches. from what i can recall and know, high school economics is mostly just about aggregates, or macroeconomics, with a focus on economic management. as a result, the stimulus package is an excellent case study for students to apply their economic intuition. according to the (albeit rudimentary) framework the senior economics syllabus teaches, the stimulus must have been helpful, must have been necessary, and must have been a good idea. and i'd wager that if a Liberal government implemented the stimulus package, it would still have been taught in classrooms. so it seems your problem really isn't with the stimulus package and how it's taught. it's with the geist of the senior economics syllabus.

i think your concern about 'actual effects on inflation and costs as well as if any realistic or sustainable growth can be ascertained' aren't realistic or relevant. no one would argue that the stimulus package pushed headline or CPI inflation beyond the target 2-3%. as for 'realistic or sustainable growth', well, we've returned to (new) trend growth, so whats your gripe? the syllabus teaches fundamentals, theory, and intution, not empirics and rigor.

i'm not saying it's all peaches and cream. it just sounds like you heard something you didn't want to hear. kinda like an LNP member not wanting to hear climate science taught in schools.

 

[Lolsmith]

i don't know if you paid any attention in class (i take it you took highschool economics) but, as i said, that's what the syllabus teaches. from what i can recall and know, high school economics is mostly just about aggregates, or macroeconomics, with a focus on economic management. as a result, the stimulus package is an excellent case study for students to apply their economic intuition. according to the (albeit rudimentary) framework the senior economics syllabus teaches, the stimulus must have been helpful, must have been necessary, and must have been a good idea. and i'd wager that if a Liberal government implemented the stimulus package, it would still have been taught in classrooms. so it seems your problem really isn't with the stimulus package and how it's taught. it's with the geist of the senior economics syllabus.

I would still call them shills, regardless of the party that issued the stimulus and regardless of the state government that instituted the syllabus. When they leave out significant and still relevant criteria about this issue, educators sell short their students and narrow their focus far too much. My problem stems to education as a whole in this country and specifically to this subject and topic.

i think your concern about 'actual effects on inflation and costs as well as if any realistic or sustainable growth can be ascertained' aren't realistic or relevant. no one would argue that the stimulus package pushed headline or CPI inflation beyond the target 2-3%. as for 'realistic or sustainable growth', well, we've returned to (new) trend growth, so whats your gripe? the syllabus teaches fundamentals, theory, and intution, not empirics and rigor.

There are a myriad of other, more sensible reasons for these things though. The fact that the RBA cut interest rates by an unprecedented amount (can't remember the exact figure) overnight, combined with China not being as adversely affected as the rest of the globe's economies and still demanded all of our minerals (wassup two speed economy) and stuff like the government not securing losses for banks throwing cash into bad borrower's laps all had a more important and stringent effect than the stimulus that was handed out. Literally none of these things were even mentioned when I learnt it, which means they either were or are not included in any syllabus relevant to learning about this type of economic management, which is ludicrous.

i'm not saying it's all peaches and cream. it just sounds like you heard something you didn't want to hear. kinda like an LNP member not wanting to hear climate science taught in schools.

My gripe isn't with pointless ideology, it's with providing a better education about serious issues, further than "look the science just isn't in".

 

[funkshen]

I would still call them shills, regardless of the party that issued the stimulus and regardless of the state government that instituted the syllabus. When they leave out significant and still relevant criteria about this issue, educators sell short their students and narrow their focus far too much. My problem stems to education as a whole in this country and specifically to this subject and topic.

right. i don't meant to say i don't kind of share your concern. without knowing how it's taught, i can't say for sure whether they're 'selling students short or not.' but from what you say, they're not really approaching the stimulus from a critical perspective. they could definitely get students to use the fundamentals, learned in high school economics, to understand why the stimulus did and didn't work - but they're not teaching that. however, the arguments against the stimulus' effects are pretty weak (crowding out or ricardian equivalence) and either aren't of much value, or are too obscure for high school economics. so i don't know how they'd critique it. economics education is pretty standardised the world over, from high schools to undergrad, so i wouldn't say it's necessarily an australian issue.

There are a myriad of other, more sensible reasons for these things though. The fact that the RBA cut interest rates by an unprecedented amount (can't remember the exact figure) overnight, combined with China not being as adversely affected as the rest of the globe's economies and still demanded all of our minerals (wassup two speed economy) and stuff like the government not securing losses for banks throwing cash into bad borrower's laps all had a more important and stringent effect than the stimulus that was handed out. Literally none of these things were even mentioned when I learnt it, which means they either were or are not included in any syllabus relevant to learning about this type of economic management, which is ludicrous.

1) the RBA cut the cash rate from 7.25 to 3.0 between september '08 and april '09. not by unprecedented amounts - the largest cut was 100bps which has been done quite a few times - although the overall effect, halving the rate in 6 months, was unprecedented. but first of all, lending rates are obviously multicausal. like all banks, australian banks borrow heavily from overseas, and interbank lending froze up (i.e. credit crunch). so, compounded by uncertainty and fear both domestic and international, we didn't see a commensurate fall in domestic borrowing costs. secondly, to quote milton friedman, "monetary policy works with long and variable lags." that is, the effect of monetary policy is delayed (by, say, two quarters at least). or monetary policy works with long and variable 'leads' instead, where the transmission mechanism of monetary policy is understood as expectations of future GDP, looser policy leading to higher expectations of future GDP, leading to an increase in current AD and GDP. but the point is the effects are delayed, and you have problems in the meantime related to falling aggregate demand and consumption (e.g. unemployment)

2) china was in the midst of a slowdown as well. economic growth fell off a cliff (from 12% to 8.5% or so). they instituted a massive stimulus package - 14% of GDP compared to 5.5% for the US and 4.6% for australia. this shored up demand for australian minerals and commodity prices in general.

3) the government did secure losses. an emergency scheme in 2008 covered deposits up to $1mn, and this was only reduced to $250,000 in February this year. obviously this was just to deal with uncertainty and a potential run on the banks. no deposits were actually secured since none of our banks went bankrupt.

the handouts, and later the school building program and other spending programs, had a real, immediate effect on aggregate demand. you can't simultaneously argue that our economic stimulus didn't work and then thank chinese demand for our mineral wealth, because chinese demand was shored up by their massive stimulus package. and because monetary policy works with long and variable lags, the virtue of an immediate cash handout program has instant and real effects.

My gripe isn't with pointless ideology, it's with providing a better education about serious issues, further than "look the science just isn't in".

i get that. i agree that the syllabus could probably do without a valorisation of the stimulus package. but it's a great case study, and should still be taught. and you're still going to have people who complain about it.

 

[soloooooo]

Gillard will be gone within 4 weeks. Thee evidence against her misconduct in the mid 90s is about to boil over after it has been simmering for the past year.

 

[Absolutezero]

Gillard will be gone within 4 weeks. Thee evidence against her misconduct in the mid 90s is about to boil over after it has been simmering for the past year.

Is this just like your Tsunami theory. Because that panned out well.

 

[soloooooo]

Is this just like your Tsunami theory. Because that panned out well.

It wasn't my theory and the warning hasn't been issued yet.

 

[moll.]

Solo, you're an idiot. Just, in general, an idiot.