BE/BSc (AdvMath) (1 Viewer)

[ATARD]

Seriously..? Why doesn't this course exist. You got BA/BSc (AdvMath) and BCom/BSc (AdvMath); why cant you do Advanced Maths with Engineering? Its a good match AFAIK.

I emailed the uni two weeks ago and got no response.

Can anyone explain this, or (hopefully) correct this for me?

Cheers

 

[Iruka]

Wouldn't it be exactly the same as doing a BSc/BEng with an extra honours year in maths?

I suspect the reason that they don't offer it is because you can't fit all the required subjects into the time frame of the degree.

 

[ATARD]

I fancied doing ENgineering and Quantitative Risk, which is only possible through Advanced Math.

I am now looking at Actuarial Studies, but personally I would have much rathered Quantitative Risk...

 

[tommykins]

I asked about it last year and Iruka has the idea.

To do Eng and Adv Math you're required to do 6 years

 

[ATARD]

Counting the units it appears that it would be no longer than a Eng/Commerce degree.

What did you end up doing?

 

[Studentleader]

Stupid combination considering you could do B.Sc(Hons) + M.Sc or B.Sc(Hons) + get half way into a PhD, the same applies for engineering.

 

[tommykins]

Counting the units it appears that it would be no longer than a Eng/Commerce degree.

What did you end up doing?

Had to decide engo or math.

I chose engo - didn't think i was able to keep up with math (because i'm hell weak at statistics+probability)

 

[ATARD]

I'm not really looking at getting a pure maths degree.

I originally planned to do a BCom/BEng majoring in Finance and/or Actuarial Studies. However I was attracted to the Quantitative Risk plan because it takes a far more technical approach to Finance with some pure maths classes.

I think I am capable with keeping up with the maths, and personally I think I'll enjoy it more so than a more theory based Finance major.

...but of course; this can't be done with Engineering!

 

[dvse]

I'm not really looking at getting a pure maths degree.

I originally planned to do a BCom/BEng majoring in Finance and/or Actuarial Studies. However I was attracted to the Quantitative Risk plan because it takes a far more technical approach to Finance with some pure maths classes.

I think I am capable with keeping up with the maths, and personally I think I'll enjoy it more so than a more theory based Finance major.

...but of course; this can't be done with Engineering!

"Quantitative risk" is not a worthwhile major. Do pure maths and read a couple of elementary textbooks like Hull and Luenberger and you've covered everything.

What engineering major are you interested in? If you want to work in engineering, "qunatitative risk" offers no advantages compared to a regular maths major and if you want to work in finance that engineering degree in addition to maths will be largely useless (transferable skills are maths/programming). If you can't decide between the two engineering is probably not the right choice.

 

[ATARD]

I am definitely doing Electrical Engineering. I am also very committed to doing a business degree of some variety. I'm not at all concerned both degrees relate, if anything, I want to spread my education.

Who knows if I'll become an engineer, or go into finance; but I'd like to leave my options and learn as much as I can at uni.

I consider myself to have strong math/computer skills, and I just feel that if I can get into the technical side of finance, it will be both engaging and a highly lucrative career path.

Cheers
Mitch

 

[dvse]

I am definitely doing Electrical Engineering. I am also very committed to doing a business degree of some variety. I'm not at all concerned both degrees relate, if anything, I want to spread my education.

Who knows if I'll become an engineer, or go into finance; but I'd like to leave my options and learn as much as I can at uni.

I consider myself to have strong math/computer skills, and I just feel that if I can get into the technical side of finance, it will be both engaging and a highly lucrative career path.

Cheers
Mitch

A better fit would be to do a BEng/BSc and then an MCom. Undergraduate commerce degree is worth little in an engineering environment, a masters would be much better regarded. Not sure if this can be done in 6 years though.

Do not be deceived by the marketing of actuarial programs - it has nothing to do with mathematics and it's usefulness is very limited outside insurance! In terms of technical skills you will get much more from BEng.

 

[ATARD]

Okay, that's good advice thanks.

And on the flip side, I believe a BEng could be of some advantage when applying for a commerce job, no?

I spent a long time talking to a close family friend who is a HSBC exec, and he really liked the look of the Quant Risk program. All things considered, I really do think I would have suited a Quant+Eng degree. Now that I cannot do that, I just have to work out the best alternative....

 

[dvse]

Okay, that's good advice thanks.

And on the flip side, I believe a BEng could be of some advantage when applying for a commerce job, no?

Sure, it's better than a straight BCom by a long shot, especially for jobs with some technical content (as opposed to, say, "business banking").

I spent a long time talking to a close family friend who is a HSBC exec, and he really liked the look of the Quant Risk program. All things considered, I really do think I would have suited a Quant+Eng degree. Now that I cannot do that, I just have to work out the best alternative....

You would do well to be skeptical of marketing claims! Let's analyze the "quant risk" program in detail:

Year 1 Session 1
MATH1151 Mathematics for Actuarial Studies and Finance 1A
ACCT1501 Accounting and Financial Management 1A
ECON1101 Microeconomics 1
SCIF1021 Advanced Science and Mathematics Seminar


Year 1 Session 2
MATH1251 Mathematics for Actuarial Studies and Finance 1B
FINS1613 Business Finance
Elective courses totalling 6 units of credit (Recommended: COMP1911 Computing 1; MATH1081 Discrete Mathematics; FINS1612 Capital Markets and Institutions)
General Education courses totalling 6 units of credit

Year 2 Session 1
MATH2111 Higher Several Variable Calculus
MATH2901 Higher Theory of Statistics
ACTL2001 Financial Mathematics
FINS2624 Portfolio Management

Year 2 Session 2
MATH2601 Higher Linear Algebra
MATH2881 Quantitative Risk
MATH2931 Higher Linear Models
Elective courses totalling 6 units of credit

Year 3 Session 1
MATH3901 Higher Probability and Stochastic Processes
FINS3635 Options, Futures and Risk Management
General Education courses totalling 6 units of credit
Mathematics or Statistics Level III courses totalling 6 units of credit, as approved by the Head of School or Director of Undergraduate Studies.

Year 3 Session 2
ACTL3003 Insurance Risk Models +
FINS3655 Behavioural Finance
FINS3636 Interest Rate Risk Management
Mathematics or Statistics Level III courses totalling 6 units of credit, as approved by the Head of School or Director of Undergraduate Studies.



There are more 4th year electives but what we have here are essentially 3 types of courses:

Common first year commerce subjects that will give you some background: ACCT1501, ECON1101, FINS1613

Finance courses available through finance major that employ next to zero mathematics because BCom students simply do not have the background:
ACTL2001 (kind of a slightly harder version of FINS1613), FINS2624, FINS3655, FINS3636, ACTL3003 (a weaker version of MATH2931 and MATH3901)


Useful maths courses that will actually help you understand "quantitative finance": MATH2111,MATH2901, MATH2931,MATH3901



IMO, the price you pay for "commerce background" is too high - instead of 4 sessions worth of maths courses that will help you develop mathematical intuition and understand the models you get 1 session and the rest is some fairly arbitrary stuff with considerable overlap - most of it you can pick up from the two books i've mentioned earlier. This degree is purely a marketing exercise for the school...

 

[ATARD]

Well thank you for your analysis; its hard to be sceptical when there is so little online about specific classes...

Maybe again my presumptions are wrong, but isn't there a fair amount of maths within an Electrical Engineering degree? This is what I have been told non stop. I imagine it is very little in comparison to a pure maths degree, but I feel these classes should be considered when looking at my degree plan as a whole.

I do however like what you suggest. It will give me a rock-sold technical foundation, and if I am so inclined to move into finance, I can do a Masters in Financial Mathematics. I imagine the masters would blitz the Quant Risk program, no?

 

[dvse]

Well thank you for your analysis; its hard to be sceptical when there is so little online about specific classes...

Maybe again my presumptions are wrong, but isn't there a fair amount of maths within an Electrical Engineering degree? This is what I have been told non stop. I imagine it is very little in comparison to a pure maths degree, but I feel these classes should be considered when looking at my degree plan as a whole.

I do however like what you suggest. It will give me a rock-sold technical foundation, and if I am so inclined to move into finance, I can do a Masters in Financial Mathematics. I imagine the masters would blitz the Quant Risk program, no?

Maths in EE is almost the same as the maths in "quant risk", namely linear algebra, multivariable calculus, probability and perhaps some stochastic processes. The only major extra topic is complex analysis. See here (School of Mathematics and Statistics - With Engineering) how Maths 2A and Maths 2B are substituted for combined degrees. There is quite a bit more maths in ELEC courses of course, but mostly applications.

"Quant risk" will give you little edge over just a BEng as far as maths goes. If you want to understand a little bit about modern mathematics and have a solid foundation for quant finance (and engineering research), you should follow a program similar to this in 3rd/4th year instead:

# MATH3611 Higher Analysis
# MATH3701 Higher Topology and Differential Geometry
# MATH3711 Higher Algebra
# MATH5825 Measure, Integration & Probability
# MATH5835 Stochastic Processes
# MATH5805 Stochastic Differential Equations
# MATH5605 Functional Analysis

With a BSc/BEng, you will definitely have the background to do an MFE or similar.

 

[Iruka]

Remember, if you do adv. math or sci you have to do those stupid SCIF courses.

I have always thought that the advanced science degrees are a marketing exercise on the part of the university, and from what I can see of the maths component, the quant risk major looks much the same. (I don't do commerce, so can't comment there.) The only new maths course that they have introduced for this major is MATH2881, and I am quite sure that if you expressed an interest and you had the marks, they would let you do it as an elective, regardless of your nominal major.

 

[ATARD]

Alrighty, thanks for all your help. I am leaning towards your recommendations and now considering a BEng/BSci.

I think you are right Iruka, I have heard on multiple occasions people say if you can maintain good marks, the flexibility in maths is huge and you can really pick whatever subjects you want.

I have a question about the science half of the double degree. So I do my maths major, thats good and fine, but what else does it include? Looking at this plan it appears i do 60UOC of science classes, yet this page says I do 102UOC. Can someone clarify? Do I also have to do a minor? Or other general classes?

Thanks

 

[hermand]

remember, if you do adv. Math or sci you have to do those stupid scif courses.

scif?

 

[dvse]

I have a question about the science half of the double degree. So I do my maths major, thats good and fine, but what else does it include? Looking at this plan it appears i do 60UOC of science classes, yet this page says I do 102UOC. Can someone clarify? Do I also have to do a minor? Or other general classes?

Thanks

All the maths courses that you do count towards the science major, including 1st and 2nd years. Can't do a minor in a double degree.

 

[Iruka]

scif?

UNSW Handbook Course - Science Fundamentals / Science Foundations - SCIF1101