Malkin was on the right track with this, but this behaviour is not something that relates to a "religious sect" of Christianity. Unfortunatetly it relates to all Christians and, as you yourself know, is one of the greatest sources for the claims that Christians are hipocrits. And I think this behaviour is partly justifyable, but that doesnt mean we should try and justify it.Riqtay said:
The reason it is justifyable is this: In becoming a Christian, we do not become perfect. Jesus is the atonement for our sins so we are presented before God as perfect as him, but we ourselves do not become perfect. We still sin and we still fail in our attempts to seek the glory of God.
In the case of the christians you know, this means they are still in the persuit of vain pleasures and their old sinful ways. The good thing is that they realise it is wrong. The bad thing is they don't do anything to change what is wrong. Repentance is basically turning your back on something and walking the exact opposite way. You can be forgiven for a sin then do it again, but if you repent, you should be doing everything in your power with God's help to walk away from it. That's what Christians need to do.
And that is the reason we shouldnt try to justify it. I'm not perfect, and I will never claim to be. BUT I do claim that I have died with Christ to my sinful nature and now the life of Christ reigns in me. I have died to my sin and it is no longer my master, God is my Master. Why should I continue to live to please my dead sinful nature rather than the living God? I shouldn't. Hence why we should not justify continuing to live sinfully.
If you think it's a serious problem, maybe try challenging them about it. When a christian rebukes you for not living as a Christian should, it's a big wake up call. But if a non-Christian were to rebuke me for not living as a Christian should, how much more would i be shaken up? If there is no accountability, I ask you to keep them accountable. After all you are probably one of the best judges of whether they are living differently
In the end, it is the Holy Spirit that interprets the bible, and therefore He is the final authority on who is right or wrong. But I'm sure that most of us grieve the Holy Spirit by not being prepared to listen to what he has to say. But if we are trying to please God we should be seeking what he says to be right, not what we think he should say is.bobin2 said:
The point i've been trying to make about the bible (in some of my previous posts) is that you cant just take some of the bible and leave other bits of it. If you take some, you must take all. If you leave bits then just leave it all. God did not give Christians erasable bibles.
I watched it! And it frustrated me greatlybobin2 said:
I had mixed emotions about it. When i was watching it i kept thinking "What if it was me on this show? What would I say, would it change what I believe or would it stay the same?" But also i thought "If that was me, and for thirty days i was put in an environment where this kind of sin is socially acceptable, i would probably be enticed to sin in this way. I doesnt matter how strong I think I am, I would start to find it acceptable in some way."
To be perfectly honest, the bible does condemn those who practice homosexuality because it is sinful. God did not create men to love men or women to love women. It is their own sinful desires which create these relationships. As such the bible says people who do this are sinful. And that is what the guy had been taught.
His problem was not that he believed this, his problem was the idea of relative sinfulness and that he was applying it to non-christians. "Because God says in the bible practicing homosexuality is very bad, people who do it must be very bad and therefore much worse than me." And as i said, he was applying it to non-Christians which is very wrong as well. Non-christians dont try to apply the bible to their lifestyle and therefore can't be judged for doing things a christian who applies the bible cant do.
A guy named Jonathan Edwards (not the dodgey psychic guy, but a theologian from the 18th century) stated, in one his 70 resolutions, that the proper Christian response to seeing someone commit a sin is to take that sin on just as if we are guilty of doing the same thing or worse and repent because of it. This is in order to prevent the "holier than thou" attitude some christians have. We can't look down on people because we ARE guilty of being sinful too!
One thing that annoyed me greatly was the when he was having a talk to the pastor of the gay church. She said something like "You're telling me that being gay is a sin. That I should go home and break up with my partner of 8 years, and break up my family?" and he was like "When you put it that way... no". But i was like "That's exactly what the bible says you should do!"
One of the versus that started this topic was about how to be a disciple of Jesus you must hate your father and your mother and your brothers and sisters in order to follow me. She cannot love being in her relationship more than she loves Jesus. And when the bible says you cannot practice homosexuality, yet you love your relationship more than the word of God then something is wrong.
Don't hear me wrong, there are gay christians, but the problem is you cannot act unrepentently on your sinful desires. That goes with all sins. You cannot claim to be an imitator of Christ and yet be satisfied with having even one sin in your life. Yes you will still be sinful but you cannot be complacent in that!
Laslty, the thing that got me most inspired by this show was when the gay guys took the straight christian guy and his mate outside, after they got up on stage and danced without their shirts on, and then just roasted them for doing it. I thought that was awesome. When non-christians have grounds to take you down because you haven't been living how you claimed God wants you to, it must really put you in your place.
The biblical standpoint on this is that you should live such good lives among the people who don't know God that even when they accuse you of doing wrong, their accusations wont stand. And Jonathan Edwards says that if you assume that in all the world at one time there is only one person who can be the best example of christianity, you should strive to be that person. So when a non-christian can accuse you of doing wrong, and they're right, then something is wrong with you. If people can see that you are not the best example of christianity and you're happy that way, something is wrong with you.
In short, it was not what this guy was taught that got him to seem hipocratic, but it was his own sinful notion of relative holiness. Being a practicing homosexual is condemned in the bible, but so are all the things I am guilty of. I must constantly remind myself that I am guilty of the same sin or worse, and yet God has forgiven me and with his help i will repent of it.
Don't worry... i think that's strange too. When a man who lives in the the extravagant surroundings of the Vatican, and has the resources of the worlds largest Church at his disposal, can say something like that it just doesnt seem to sit right. I will not try to justify what the pope wears because i don't know anything about him.bobin2 said:
Your last comment is very hard to argue with, mainly because it is mostly true. The church as a whole has used many tactics in order to attract more people to church. I think a lot of focus has been placed on quantity not quality. Trying to convince everybody that Jesus is cool so you can be cool and go to church.
Many ministries in the church have taken to selling themselves to world by embracing the culture of the people they are trying to attract. But Christianity is always one step behind being cool. Something happens in the world, then the church copies it to attract more people. But by the time they've copied the fad, people have already moved on to the next thing.
In my honest opinion i dont think it's cool to be a christian. If i wanted to be cool there are so many other things I could be doing. If Christianity seems the most attractive option for any other reason than Jesus being our Saviour, then something isnt right. We have nothing besides Jesus, but i believe that is more than one could ever need.
I believe the priority of the church should not be getting people to come IN so that we are seen to be the most successful, it should be getting the message of Jesus OUT so that the whole world will know who he is. Once the message is out, the people who want to know more will come in... and this for no other reason than Jesus.
