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BIT or Comp Sci? (1 Viewer)

MrBrightside

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I know both have their strengths and weaknesses..but I still can't decide :( is there anything that SIGNIFICANTLY distinguishes these two courses besides level of programming and maths involved? maybe once my HSC marks come out, it might be easier to choose...
 

seremify007

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Logical question is what do you plan to do career wise?

I have a few friends doing BIT now, and from what I can tell, it sounds a lot more employable in the 'real world' with the softer skills other than hardcore computer science grads.
 

pwoh

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Which parts of your HSC subjects do you like best? Have you done anything outside of school that you really enjoyed/didn't enjoy?
 

MrBrightside

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Which parts of your HSC subjects do you like best? Have you done anything outside of school that you really enjoyed/didn't enjoy?
IPT was my favourite subject :D 2nd was prob between I.T and SDD. Yes I took 3 work placements outside of school, one being at Coca Cola Amatil - I.T depart, watch a guy program in a business language ABAP.
 

pwoh

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IPT was my favourite subject :D 2nd was prob between I.T and SDD. Yes I took 3 work placements outside of school, one being at Coca Cola Amatil - I.T depart, watch a guy program in a business language ABAP.
TBH you sound more like a BIT guy - did you enjoy the more technical stuff in SDD? Do you like maffs?
 
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Logical question is what do you plan to do career wise?

I have a few friends doing BIT now, and from what I can tell, it sounds a lot more employable in the 'real world' with the softer skills other than hardcore computer science grads.
Graduates from Computing and BIT mostly end up in different roles, so it's not right to say one is more employable than the other. We just finished our annual salary survey of graduating students: Average: $78,705. Median: $70,000!
 

MrBrightside

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TBH you sound more like a BIT guy - did you enjoy the more technical stuff in SDD? Do you like maffs?
Now in my second year, studying IT, subject-wise I wish I had done something more technical, like Comp Sci or Eng. The BIT course heavily relies on the two six-month industry placements to teach you real-world skills. At the moment, I'm paying over 4 grand to work in 3 team-based subjects, pretty much just planning, documenting and developing website based systems (arrhhgg). Haven't really learnt anything this semester at uni. I tend to source my knowledge from other areas of the net more than anything else. I would even go as far to say that, some subjects like CBP for example are purely pointless - content wise, made up and worthless subjects, (even a BIT grad agreed). Though the BIT course thrives on networking with people. (You meet a lot of industry contacts right from first year, which is a plus for our careers I suppose).

Is it too late to transfer into something more technical? I really love UNSW's computing programs, they look and feel second to none in the area, and CS / S.E. / C.E. degrees are more world reputable than a mere IT degree. (at bigger tech companies; Google, MS, Facebook). I'm already at the end of my 2nd year / 3 year course though. Possibly may be better to do Postgrad at the end of my Bachelors? UNSW has a cumulative 2 year program for MIT, GradDip Graduate Diploma in Information Technology and GradCert Graduate Certificate in Computing, but I was told postgrad subjects are worth 2.5k each. (Money shouldn't be an issue, I've always wanted to do Computer Engineering from the start, studying how hardware and software components work together to achieve a fully functioning piece of work. :) Though I was told (and researched myself), that Comp Eng jobs are not in Australia, (or are really rare). Having said that, there's no job a C.E./SENG/CS student couldn't do over an IT student. It doesn't work in reverse though.

I ended up going with BIT as it seemed like the more opportune pathway based on Australia's landscape of tech jobs at the time, and the degree only being 3 years in duration, along with 2 industry placements offered. Though, from a theoretical subject standpoint, I feel robbed of my uni-based learning. The BIT focuses more on industry networking and experience more than anything else - the course structure does not follow a standard across multiple unis - some teach it as primarily a Business degree (UNSW), some teach it as half intro-technical / half business (UTS), and some teach it as a CS or IS degree (USyd), the UTS course is pretty much built upon industry practices related to applied IT only (rather than the low-level theory behind those working applications). Just to give you the sheer speed at which CS students learn technical content compared to us: CS students cover our first two core programming + Data Structures and Algorithms (DSA) (elective) subjects, within their first programming subject + a bit more.

After I joined the BIT course, I started reading up and watching a lot of documentaries on famous computing people and startups in my own time, from big companies such as Google, Apple, Microsoft, and startups like reddit / hipmunk, and the commonality is that most, if not all of these founders had some form of a CS/SENG/CE backing, in one form or another, they are Software Engineering based companies after all. IT is more maintenance based all-rounder IT work (as people told me, but I never really knew what that would involve at the time), evolving HEAVY diagramming and requirements specification documentation, IT configuration and support intended for both Agile and Waterfall corporate based projects (since that's where the demand is primarily at in Australia - big banks, consultation/auditing companies and the occasional/rare software startup), in increasing the readability and longevity of large scale IT systems. CS/CE/SENG courses would open up a lot more jobs overseas and here onshore as well based solely on their world renowned course structures -being world reputable degrees, especially in the US. I wasn't that into the whole IT industry 2 years ago, I rarely knew or read about famous IT people and companies, but so much has changed since then, now I read daily about them, and share this knowledge. I've pretty much given up hope on any of my BIT subjects. I'm looking forward to doing DSA next year if I don't transfer, + a technical dev or IT Support internship somewhere if possible.

Transferring would be nice, but then again, I've spent 2 years doing my Bachelors, may as well finish it now with 1 year and 4 weeks to go, and then do postgrad @ UNSW if I feel that more knowledge is required (highly certain). Though a lot of BITs end up being locally hired before or upon grad. So I may have to defer the postgrad study or undertake it part-time. - That would probably be the most reasonable pathway at this point in time.
 
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BabBab007

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Now in my second year, studying IT, subject-wise I wish I had done something more technical, like Comp Sci or Eng. The BIT course heavily relies on the two six-month industry placements to teach you real-world skills. At the moment, I'm paying over 4 grand to work in 3 team-based subjects, pretty much just planning, documenting and developing website based systems (arrhhgg). Haven't really learnt anything this semester at uni. I tend to source my knowledge from other areas of the net more than anything else. I would even go as far to say that, some subjects like CBP for example are purely pointless - content wise, made up and worthless subjects, (even a BIT grad agreed). Though the BIT course thrives on networking with people. (You meet a lot of industry contacts right from first year, which is a plus for our careers I suppose).

Is it too late to transfer into something more technical? I really love UNSW's computing programs, they look and feel second to none in the area, and CS / S.E. / C.E. degrees are more world reputable than a mere IT degree. (at bigger tech companies; Google, MS, Facebook). I'm already at the end of my 2nd year / 3 year course though. Possibly may be better to do Postgrad at the end of my Bachelors? UNSW has a cumulative 2 year program for MIT, GradDip Graduate Diploma in Information Technology and GradCert Graduate Certificate in Computing, but I was told postgrad subjects are worth 2.5k each. (Money shouldn't be an issue, I've always wanted to do Computer Engineering from the start, studying how hardware and software components work together to achieve a fully functioning piece of work. :) Though I was told (and researched myself), that Comp Eng jobs are not in Australia, (or are really rare). Having said that, there's no job a C.E./SENG/CS student couldn't do over an IT student. It doesn't work in reverse though.

I ended up going with BIT as it seemed like the more opportune pathway based on Australia's landscape of tech jobs at the time, and the degree only being 3 years in duration, along with 2 industry placements offered. Though, from a theoretical subject standpoint, I feel robbed of my uni-based learning. The BIT focuses more on industry networking and experience more than anything else - the course structure does not follow a standard across multiple unis - some teach it as primarily a Business degree (UNSW), some teach it as half intro-technical / half business (UTS), and some teach it as a CS or IS degree (USyd), the UTS course is pretty much built upon industry practices related to applied IT only (rather than the low-level theory behind those working applications). Just to give you the sheer speed at which CS students learn technical content compared to us: CS students cover our first two core programming + Data Structures and Algorithms (DSA) (elective) subjects, within their first programming subject + a bit more.

After I joined the BIT course, I started reading up and watching a lot of documentaries on famous computing people and startups in my own time, from big companies such as Google, Apple, Microsoft, and startups like reddit / hipmunk, and the commonality is that most, if not all of these founders had some form of a CS/SENG/CE backing, in one form or another, they are Software Engineering based companies after all. IT is more maintenance based all-rounder IT work (as people told me, but I never really knew what that would involve at the time), evolving HEAVY diagramming and requirements specification documentation, IT configuration and support intended for both Agile and Waterfall corporate based projects (since that's where the demand is primarily at in Australia - big banks, consultation/auditing companies and the occasional/rare software startup), in increasing the readability and longevity of large scale IT systems. CS/CE/SENG courses would open up a lot more jobs overseas and here onshore as well based solely on there world renowned course structures- being world reputable degrees, especially in the US. I wasn't that into the whole IT industry 2 years ago, I rarely knew or read about famous IT people and companies, but so much has changed since then, now I read daily about them, and share this knowledge. I've pretty much given up hope on any of my BIT subjects. I'm looking forward to doing DSA next year if I don't transfer, + a technical dev or IT Support internship somewhere if possible.

Transferring would be nice, but then again, I've spent 2 years doing my Bachelors, may as well finish it now with 1 year and a 4 weeks to go, and then do postgrad @ UNSW if I feel that more knowledge is required (highly certain). Though a lot of BITs end up being locally hired before or upon grad. So I may have to defer the postgrad study or undertake it part-time. - That would probably be the most reasonable pathway at this point in time.
Blair is that you?

Yes whilst I agree with the sentiments in this above post, in all honesty it truly depends on what you want. The negative component in BIT/IS is that perhaps there are some things that require ones own effort to learn or perhaps going one step further and learning things outside the rigid syllabus of Information Systems/BIT. Using web-based applications may require someone to learn JQuery, JavaScript and other similar languages which aren't explicitly taught in the course. But this applies to other courses as well, additional work might be important.

In terms of Com Sci, you're not really restricted to the languages you learn as you're taught the theory of Procedural and Object Oriented Languages as well as tools to develop on OS systems such as Linux, outside of just web applications via JDBC or Oracle Databases. You have greater mobility to choose what you're into as opposed being placed in commercial IT. Plus if you feel restricted with just Engineering concepts you can always transfer into a double degree like Commerce/Engineering but that can be difficult because of the WAM it requires.

To be honest BIT and Comp Sci are completely different areas and the only only way you'll find out what's best for you is to contact the uni or read about what you're most interested then pursuit it with some sort of rational decision-making process as highlighted by Brightside's quote. For me personally, I had always been more interested in pure Engineering and technological development as opposed to the commercial setting of BIT. It better aligned with what I wanted so I ended up changing.

TL;DR do your research first.
 

MrBrightside

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Blair is that you?

Yes whilst I agree with the sentiments in this above post, in all honesty it truly depends on what you want. The negative component in BIT/IS is that perhaps there are some things that require ones own effort to learn or perhaps going one step further and learning things outside the rigid syllabus of Information Systems/BIT. Using web-based applications may require someone to learn JQuery, JavaScript and other similar languages which aren't explicitly taught in the course. But this applies to other courses as well, additional work might be important.

In terms of Com Sci, you're not really restricted to the languages you learn as you're taught the theory of Procedural and Object Oriented Languages as well as tools to develop on OS systems such as Linux, outside of just web applications via JDBC or Oracle Databases. You have greater mobility to choose what you're into as opposed being placed in commercial IT. Plus if you feel restricted with just Engineering concepts you can always transfer into a double degree like Commerce/Engineering but that can be difficult because of the WAM it requires.

To be honest BIT and Comp Sci are completely different areas and the only only way you'll find out what's best for you is to contact the uni or read about what you're most interested then pursuit it with some sort of rational decision-making process as highlighted by Brightside's quote. For me personally, I had always been more interested in pure Engineering and technological development as opposed to the commercial setting of BIT. It better aligned with what I wanted so I ended up changing.

TL;DR do your research first.
> Blair is that you?

lol'd at the reference. Good one.


You were a former BIT? If so, which year in your course did you decide to transfer, 1st year?

Also, no computing degree ever intends on teaching you every language, it's too cumbersome and ineffective to do solely that, languages can become redundant within years of being introduced, (you don't want a degree falling in the same footsteps). Most universities aim to teach you one or two [Java or C/C++], or more of a mix if you decide to elective in specific languages [PHP, JSP, JavaScript (jQuery library), HTML/CSS, .NET, ASP.NET, Objective-C, C#, Pearl +more] and frameworks such as the Android API and iOS Cocoa. Like I read on here 2 years ago, a degree provides the core foundational topics which you can use to adapt to new technologies, regardless of languages and specific companies.

It just so happens (as you've stated), that the very nature of the BIT course itself [and IT courses in general] (at UTS and UNSW at least) is based very much upon the commercial applications of what IT can do, rather than how and why we can design and develop entire new chipsets/circulatory and languages from the ground up using scientific and mathematical principles, which is where Comp/Soft Engineering and Comp Sci take over.

It is for this very reason as to why IT degrees are somewhat generally 'looked down upon' when applying at big Software Engineering or global tech companies involving purely Software or Hardware Engineering related roles (unless of course your IT degree is simply mis-labelled as an IT degree, covering up CS subjects, which you would then have to prove and convince prospective employers that your IT degree was in fact a CS/Engineering related degree, using transcripts and conversations).

- eh, my other 2 cents.
 
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