Cadetships/Traineeships- which uni? (2 Viewers)

[seremify007]

I thought I'd start this thread because I've received numerous emails, PMs and phone calls regarding uni preferences for those studying on a cadetship/traineeship in Accounting... and this way there are plenty of other people out there who can post their opinions/experience/recommendations.

Before I start, I should note that in my firm, the main three options were UNSW, UTS and Macquarie; however other firms (usually depending on location and reason) are more willing to allow other unis such as UWS (Parramatta) and USYD.

My choice: UNSW

I spent a lot of time tossing up between UNSW and UTS but ultimately chose UNSW because of a few (personal) reasons;

1. My friends were going to UNSW, and my sister had studied B Commerce at UNSW making it easier for me to find resources.
2. The university is 'better known' and the degree hopefully more recognised- but then on a cadetship, in the scheme of things, once you have your CA it doesn't really matter.
3. From where I live, both UNSW and UTS are far so the convenience saving for UTS was marginal.
4. UNSW offers a much nicer campus with social clubs and societies- however, with VSU, it's hard to say how much of this campus life will survive.
5. Plenty of parking- especially important since I might be driving from clients.

After studying at UNSW, I've also realised there are a few benefits compared to my UTS peers on cadetships- mainly in subject timetabling. Things may change over at UTS, but when I saw my mate register his timetable, he had to put 'preferences' in to get certain classes/timeslots which doesn't always guarantee placement. UNSW on the other hand, from the moment you receive your offer, enables you to enroll via MyUNSW (website) and pick your timetable and select the night lectures suitable for a cadetship. (EDIT: Of course if you're slow to enroll and the classes happen to fill up- that's too bad.)

It should be noted that I think both UNSW and UTS offer equally suitable timeslots for night time students. Also, when I was looking for a uni last year, USYD did offer part time- just not night classes. There are some cadets I know of who are doing their part time studies at USYD, but from what I've heard, they've had to squish it all into one day (ie. take all their study leave in one day per week).

For those interested in my timetable; at UNSW, I go 2 nights a week to do 2 sujects a session/semester. Lectures for night time students are usually 6pm-8pm (instead of being spread over two days at 1 hour each), and the tutorials in the afternoon are on the same days as the lectures with several options available for both 4pm-5pm and 5pm-6pm (with some subjects offering 8pm-9pm tutorials). I personally chose the latter because I wasn't sure if I'd reach uni on time for 4pm every week; depending on client commitments. For some subjects at UNSW, there is a "Lab" (ie. using computers) which comes once every 3wks. Usually cadets tend to go for the 8pm-9pm lab sessions.

For more info on UNSW class times; visit http://www.timetable.unsw.edu.au/current/subjectSearch.html . The courses (for standard B Commerce) in 1st year are: ACCT1501, ECON1102, ECON1202 and ACCT1511, ECON1103, ECON1203. As a cadet, you can do 2 subjects (the norm) per session, or if you're more game, try doing 3. I'd personally recommend 2 for your first session so you don't feel rushed/frantic, but you're more than welcome to try challenging yourself. It just depends if you put work before studies- or studies before work.

Finally to answer the most common question about UNSW- yes there are fobs, but thankfully I've been lucky whenever I get group assignments.

For those interested in UTS; I know a lot of people who are doing cadetships at UTS... I'd say maybe 65-70% of people I can think of who are on cadetships prefer to study here.

If you are working at a firm located near UTS, or better yet, you live near UTS, it'll be hard for you to find a reason not to study here. I'm also under the impression that the UTS course is much more practical with a greater focus on understanding things rather than just learning a huge syllabus.

The obvious benefits of studying at UTS such as having more people in a similar situation to you (ie. also on cadetship) will help you when you need resources/assistance. There's also the smaller classes which I've heard about (again, not confirmed) whereas UNSW lectures always seem to have some idiot talking very loudly or disrupting the class! (warning: this idiot could be me!).

This is based on hearsay so it's not the fact or definitive answer, but from what I've heard the social life is very nonexistant and people use it primarily for convenience, heading home the moment lectures/tutorials are finished. The campus (or lack of) is compensated by the fact you get to roam around the city and thus don't really need a "uni village" as such so don't let this be your reason- unless you're like me and enjoy seeing grass and so on.

Better wait for a real UTS part timer to come here though

I hope this thread will be of use to those of you who can't decide where to go for your cadetship/traineeships!

Any questions, feel free to post here too!

 

[konstantine']

For those interested in my timetable; at UNSW, I go 2 nights a week to do 2 sujects a session/semester

How many hours of lectures and tutes do you have? Is it just the 3?

 

[case88]

hey, d'u happen to know anyone who's doing a double degree (eg. commerce/law) at unsw while doing a cadetship? i have a barrage of questions (are they coping well; what are their future plans; do they have any time for themselves...)
thanks

 

[seremify007]

How many hours of lectures and tutes do you have? Is it just the 3?

When I was studying ACCT1511 (Accounting and Financial Management 1B) and ECON1102 (Macroeconomics), I was doing 6 hours per week (each subject had a 2hr lecture and a 1hr tutorial).

However, if you are studying ECON1202 (Quantitative Methods A), on top of the 3 hours per week, there is also a 1hr lab which is once every 3 weeks. I highly recommend you attend these as you receive 1 mark for each time you attend, so it's 5 easy marks. Unofficially speaking, the work is very easy (basic Excel spreadsheets) and most tutors will give you the mark just for showing up- not necessarily staying as I found out due to the common situation of "technical difficulties" and whatnot.

I've attached my timetable from session 2, 2006 (ie. the most recent session) where I was studying 2 subjects (Part time).

hey, d'u happen to know anyone who's doing a double degree (eg. commerce/law) at unsw while doing a cadetship? i have a barrage of questions (are they coping well; what are their future plans; do they have any time for themselves...)
thanks

Hmm... from my year, I can't think of any but there are probably some in Tax/Legal. However I do know of people in other years (above & starting 07) who are doing Comm/Law at UNSW, but haven't really discussed with them about it. If you want, when the new year begins and we all head back to work, I can look into it for you but I think by then it might be a tad late.

On a sidenote, I don't know anyone in Assurance (ie. audit) doing Comm/Law. People who do double degrees on a cadetship tend to be in their respective firm's Tax/Legal divisions (and are not intending to pursue their PY/Charted Accountants), and most of them happen to come from Ernst & Young who promote double degrees.

 

[konstantine']

Thanks for that seremify. 6 hours ... wow that's double the hours my firm allocates me per week for part time; guess I'll have to take it out of annual leave. Btw, can you do 3 subjects while on part time? Or does that qualify as full time?

 

[lizbon]

technically, 3 subjects is full time. most cadets enrol in 3 subjects at the start of the year to get the concession symbols on their student card at UNSW for cheap fares.

my mate did 3 subjects for 2 sem last year whilst working full time, it's pretty hectic..but manageable.

 

[seremify007]

Thanks for that seremify. 6 hours ... wow that's double the hours my firm allocates me per week for part time; guess I'll have to take it out of annual leave. Btw, can you do 3 subjects while on part time? Or does that qualify as full time?

For us, we're allocated 4 hours per week for uni/study- but I think even 3 hours is quite viable; but I wouldn't push for anything more than 2 subjects/session.

If you look at the timetable I posted and the hours I mentioned, if you have 4 hours a week it'll be more than sufficient for you to attend your 6 hours of night classes. Honestly, even with UNSW, when I leave at 3pm on Mon/Tues, I always had around an hour of break before attending my 5pm tutorial... in other words, even if I only used half my 4hrs of study leave (and allocated the other 2hrs to another day for "self study"), I still had enough time to get to uni and attend all my lectures/tutorials.

technically, 3 subjects is full time. most cadets enrol in 3 subjects at the start of the year to get the concession symbols on their student card at UNSW for cheap fares.

my mate did 3 subjects for 2 sem last year whilst working full time, it's pretty hectic..but manageable.

LOL- that's true. 3 subjects is full time so you're eligible for the green sticker (printed on the UNSW card).

And there are a few people who do 3- it all depends on how well you think you can manage your time and client commitments.

 

[konstantine']

Man I'm dumb I've been thinking about it the wrong way. I was thinking how the hell do I do 6 hr lectures in 3 hrs ... then I realised I leave 3 hours EARLY from work to go to uni haha. Anyway thanks guys!

 

[case88]

Hmm... from my year, I can't think of any but there are probably some in Tax/Legal... and most of them happen to come from Ernst & Young who promote double degrees.

well, as it so happens i'm planning on working in the Tax and Law department of Ernst & Young *sighs*. the damn firm is so confusing

 

[bukwow]

hey there

just wondering on ur thoughts on macq uni? do u knowanyone who has done their cadetship and go to that uni?

thanks
​

 

[seremify007]

well, as it so happens i'm planning on working in the Tax and Law department of Ernst & Young *sighs*. the damn firm is so confusing

Congrats =]

So what are your thoughts at the moment? I think if you're in Tax & Law, doing the double degree with masters of tax is probably the best way to go isn't it? I'm not too familiar with double degrees on cadetships unfortunately.

hey there

just wondering on ur thoughts on macq uni? do u knowanyone who has done their cadetship and go to that uni?

thanks

​

I know a few people who study at Macquarie Uni on a cadetship- both from my year and other years. It is my understanding that the coursework is actually quite challenging despite the lower UAI requirement so don't expect it to be a walk in the park. We share notes at work between unis so we can make comparisons, and I'd say that Macquarie Uni is definitely better than what some "UAI snobs" would suggest.

As a suggestion, unless you live near to Macquarie Uni (or are working nearby), I personally wouldn't consider it because until they build that train line, I don't think the transport to/back from the city/most places is very convenient unless you don't mind driving alot. Parking shouldn't be too bad though.

... if anyone here is from Mac, can you please elaborate on how convenient it is to attend Mac U?

 

[La Divina]

Hey Serimify,

i just wanted to know what the interview processes are like for the big four firms and pretty much what they are looking for in the interviews/resume and how much extra curriculars i have to do...becuase i have changed schools in year 11 and they may not recognise my achievements from my previous school....and i havent done much this year.

 

[seremify007]

i just wanted to know what the interview processes are like for the big four firms and pretty much what they are looking for in the interviews/resume and how much extra curriculars i have to do...becuase i have changed schools in year 11 and they may not recognise my achievements from my previous school....and i havent done much this year.

Each firm has their own recruitment processes and look for different things... so really, I can't generalise and give out an answer. I'd suggest you read up on the individual firms and discuss this with the people you meet from various firms at the networking events such as the ICAA Cadetship Evening. As far as I know, I don't think there's a set quantitative criteria for things such as "how much extra curriculars i have to do" but rather, from memory of all those cadetship info evenings, the only real criteria for applicants was that you were interested in pursuing tertiary studies majoring in accounting (and obviously had an interest in the subject). Of course this could change over time or even depending on firm, so again, check with the respective firms websites.

On a sidenote with regards to your situation- a CV is your own document. Just because you changed schools doesn't change the fact that you participated in an activity or achieved something at your previous school. If there's something like you were 1st in a subject at your old school, and now you've moved to another school (I noticed you're now at a selective high in your BoS profile) then it might be a good idea to emphasise or clearly distinguish between the two schools.

I recommend you check out www.flyhigher.com.au and also search the Bored of Studies (BoS) forums for more threads which go through in much greater depth, peoples' experience with the recruitment process.

 

[case88]

Congrats =]

So what are your thoughts at the moment? I think if you're in Tax & Law, doing the double degree with masters of tax is probably the best way to go isn't it? I'm not too familiar with double degrees on cadetships unfortunately.

thanks =D
yeah, the double degree is what i've wanted to do since before i got the cadetship but i'm not sure exactly how it'll work out?
since you're not allowed to enrol in comm/law part time, i'd have to enrol full time and then defer some subjects for the first two years of my degree...? cos i possibly couldnt manage four subjects with full time work...
argh

 

[La Divina]

thanks for the website
just curious though...do they give any special preference to selective schools(i know that they wont be open about it or anything)...of the cadets that u know can u give me an estimate as to how many of them were from a selective school?
im doing work experience in the finance section of a company (just a couple of days a week over the summer holidays), does this set me apart from other applicants/ give me a better chance? or are there many people who do work experience as well.
Lastly, can u just list a couple of things that i could do in order to have a better chance, apart from knowing the company strutures etc..
thanks. =)

 

[seremify007]

thanks =D
yeah, the double degree is what i've wanted to do since before i got the cadetship but i'm not sure exactly how it'll work out?
since you're not allowed to enrol in comm/law part time, i'd have to enrol full time and then defer some subjects for the first two years of my degree...? cos i possibly couldnt manage four subjects with full time work...
argh

Which uni are you planning to study at?

Again I must emphasise I don't know much about the Comm/Law cadetship scenario, but I thought (at least with UNSW) the enrollment process is the same whereby you use the "Add Course" feature and instead of adding 4, you simply add 2 or 3 instead. Please do share with us your experience once you've enrolled

thanks for the website
just curious though...do they give any special preference to selective schools(i know that they wont be open about it or anything)...of the cadets that u know can u give me an estimate as to how many of them were from a selective school?
im doing work experience in the finance section of a company (just a couple of days a week over the summer holidays), does this set me apart from other applicants/ give me a better chance? or are there many people who do work experience as well.
Lastly, can u just list a couple of things that i could do in order to have a better chance, apart from knowing the company strutures etc..
thanks. =)

I think your questions are beyond the intention of this thread- that is, to help people already offered a cadetship with choosing their uni It might be an idea to post your questions in a pre-existing BoS cadetships thread.

1. In my intake, I'd say approx 40% came from private schools, 40% from selective highs and 20% from local govt. However, I did notice in the year after mine, there seemed to be a much greater presence from local govt. schools and not so many from selective; but this could just be due to less people applying. Also, these approximations are not necessarily indicative of what your intake will be like... it could all just boil down to coincidence. I mean, if 80% of people in an intake happened to enjoy playing soccer (a team sport), it doesn't necessarily mean that the firm has a preference for people who enjoy soccer

I don't think one can say that they do or don't give special preference to selective high schools... but I'm pretty sure they take it into consideration when they look at your marks/academic achievements within the competitive environment of a selective high school- I remember vaguely mentioning it in my interview when the partner was reading through my school reports.

2. Work experience is always beneficial- especially if it's in a similar or relevant environment. However, many (including myself) would also mention that it's not where you worked which matters so much, but what skills you learnt from working that job.

3. Things to improve your chances? TBH, there's no definitive answer to this. For me, I just did what I did normally- I enjoyed participating in certain groups/clubs at school and I also wanted to meet people who worked at the respective firms by attending the ICAA events. Of course knowing a bit about the firm and the job you're applying for would be beneficial.

 

[case88]

Which uni are you planning to study at?

Again I must emphasise I don't know much about the Comm/Law cadetship scenario, but I thought (at least with UNSW) the enrollment process is the same whereby you use the "Add Course" feature and instead of adding 4, you simply add 2 or 3 instead. Please do share with us your experience once you've enrolled

so, say i do 2 subjects instead of 4 in session 1, can i do the remaining two subjects in session 2? or will i have to choose two new subjects from an available group of 4 in session two? what i mean is, will the set order of subjects get disturbed?
(this might sound like a stupid, confusing question, sorry)

p.s. i'm planning on coming to UNSW

 

[La Divina]

thanks for the info, =)
sorry i cbb looking for other threads but this is the last question lol, can u give me a site that tells people when these ICAA events are on, or is it just on their website?
dont worry i wont bug u anymore hehe...

 

[seremify007]

so, say i do 2 subjects instead of 4 in session 1, can i do the remaining two subjects in session 2? or will i have to choose two new subjects from an available group of 4 in session two? what i mean is, will the set order of subjects get disturbed?
(this might sound like a stupid, confusing question, sorry)

p.s. i'm planning on coming to UNSW

There's no set routine but SOME subjects will require you to have studied something else previously which does give it a bit of restriction/routine. This probably won't affect you if you plan on doing things pretty much in order just spread out more. However, the thing which will affect you is class availability (as I've come to realise). I am still yet to do QMB (ECON1203) which is a first year, second semester subject; and I was planning to do it first semester in 2007... only problem is, since it's traditionally done by first year students in second semester, there's only one lecture timeslot and it's not convenient for me (Tues and Thurs 5-6pm from memory). You can view timetables for classes on the UNSW website. My suggestion to you would be rather than doing a normal Semester 1 routine of 4 subjects spread out over 2 semesters, focus on doing the same 2 subjects each time.

For example, in semester 1, do Accounting 1A and Microeconomics; and then in semester 2, do Accounting 1B and Macroeconomics. This way you'll still be doing the subjects in line with the 'traditional' times that most students take these subjects. However, this may not necessarily apply to electives/majors (eg. Finance) or even your Law courses so again you should consult people who actually study these subjects for more info and refer to UNSW handbook (online).

thanks for the info, =)
sorry i cbb looking for other threads but this is the last question lol, can u give me a site that tells people when these ICAA events are on, or is it just on their website?
dont worry i wont bug u anymore hehe...

Tsk tsk laziness

I recommend you sign up for the flyhigher.com.au newsletter (it's organised by the ICAA)- this will keep you up to date on the happenings/events and provide you with relevant articles to read when bored. It might also be a good idea to check the flyhigher.com.au website regularly, and also make sure your careers advisor at school is aware that you want to pursue a cadetship so that he/she can keep you in mind whenever news/information reaches the school.

 

[cerene]

jeff u are awesome answering everyones questions =)

thanks