Can an Atheist Please Explain to me how the Earth came about? (2 Viewers)

[Captain Gh3y]

haha that's the whole point, it doesn't have a cause

 

[Studentleader]

haha that's the whole point, it doesn't have a cause

For example

: the nothingness should yield a few surprises. Already, physicists know that in a vacuum, there are sometimes tiny little energy ‘blobs’. Little, random fluctuations of the so-called ‘quantum vacuum’. Out of nowhere, tiny particles pop in and out of existence. But theory predicts that on very, VERY rare occasions, the fluctuations should be a bit larger. Out of nowhere, an entire atom might appear! Or hey, the vacuum may even spit out a few of them!

Think of it like the static on TV. Wait long enough, and out of the random fuzz, a recognizable image might materialize. Wait REALLY long, and one day a complete episode of The Bold And The Beautiful should accidentally show up!

<TABLE cellPadding=2 width=234 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">

In the vastness of eternity, even things that are almost impossible become real. Like the sudden appearance of, say, a light green buste of Napoleon Bonaparte.​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>​

In the Universe, this should give some really surprising results. With eternity at hand, the vacuum should begin to yield all kinds of objects. Incoherent lumps of random garbage, most of the time. But on very, very rare occasions, you’ll see other objects popping into existence. The Eiffel tower. A purple camel. A golden parking garage filled with chocolate Cadillacs. Napoleon Bonaparte sitting next to Mike Tyson on top of a stack of comic books. As the googols of years pass by, it’s all there.
In the VERY, VERY, VERY long run, the vacuum will even belch up complete planets, and beautiful stars, burning and all. Theoretically the vacuum should even churn out a complete solar system one day, identical to ours, with a planet Earth inhabited by people. "In an infinite amount of time, one day, I will reappear", as physicist Katherine Freese of Michigan University once put it. "An crazy thought, but true."
One day the black nothingness should even produce a new Big Bang. Admittedly, we’ll have wait really long for it to happen. Researchers of the University of Chicago once tried to calculate it. And according to their best estimates, it should happen somewhere over the next 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 years. That’s a one with 1056 zero’s. You can count them, if you like.

http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm

 

[Riet]

^ Even if this made sense, where did the energy come from? What sparked the fluctuation?

Even if your quotes weren't vague as hell, do you believe in 6 day creation of the earth, <10000 years ago? Last I checked Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars all accept genesis as devine.

 

[Psychokiller]

TacoTerrorist, QQ more. Maybe people would take you seriously if you wouldn't undermine your argument with constant cussing and adhom attacks on atheists.

I am a Deist, but am sympathetic to theists. I can't believe that some little pseudo-intellectual 17yo from BoS has the gall to insult a person for what they see as irrational beliefs, when that very same person essentially believes that the earth and the complexities of this insanely well designed universe were created by chance

Well designed? How well designed is a universe when two life supporting planets are found a full twenty light years apart?

As for us humans, well, to quote Neil deGrasse Tyson, who puts "entertainment complex in the middle of a sewage system"?

no fucking reason and from fucking nothing. No amount of scientific explainations and/or tongue twisting crap will diverge from this.

don't be a retard. why are you so angry at science? Science, if anything, tries to figure shit out. people like you who have contrived opinions regarding the falseness of the big bang theory are pretty much equal to the smug atheist league

 

[bigboyjames]

Even if your quotes weren't vague as hell, do you believe in 6 day creation of the earth, <10000 years ago? Last I checked Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars all accept genesis as devine.

actually, muslims believe that man was on earth for i think 6000 years but the earth has been around for way longer.....or something along those lines.

 

[BoilinOatRunner]

The atheist responses to those verses I posted is the reason I hardly debate religion anymore. They gave no reasonable responses, just bashed it, like the ignorant fucking idiots atheists are. No amount of convincing will convince an atheist, whose mind is already made up and whose eyes are blindfolded.

No... I pretty much gave the responses. A big part of why you get troll responses to stuff like that is that it is kinda beyond ridiculous... Do you REALLY believe those texts made such predictions Mr Deist? Why aren't you a muslim?

Are you implying that the verses are mistranslated? No, they aren't.

Yes... or at the very least what the verse is talking about is mistranslated, they are rather cryptic. Either way it's nothing more impressive than nostrodamus ever did, let's leave it there.

1400 years ago people thought the earth was flat.

Well... a common misconception:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

1400 years ago most people couldn't read.

a) There are other ways of learning.
b) Most people can't understand quantum physics... doesn't mean the work isn't being done by those who can.

So? This explanation is one backed up by modern science.

What I mean is that the text is probably (when viewed in context with the words around it/other myths of the time/cultural setting) referring to something much different to that which it is now claiming to speak of.

There were three claims. All you retarded atheists demand is proof, and I have proved to you that the Quran contained the principles of the Big Bang theory and direct references to human evolution; and it has been proven to be 1400 years old. Just concede the fucking point.

...There were many, the 3 subheadings you had broke down into a bunch of separate points to try to prove the same thing, right? Each of them made an individual claim afaik.

What if I respond with the bible code, will you accept that as evidence that the bible predicted hitler? What if I respond with nostrodamus, was he some great seer? What if I respond with a million other odd translations of religious texts? What about the 'carvings of helicopters' in egyptian pyramids?

You know what, sometimes (always) I think about how it would be great if everyone just accepted other peoples beliefs, and questioned and discussed them in a fair and considered way. Then I think about how condescending, arrogant and narrow minded pretty much every atheist I have met is and realise it isn't going to happen.

You are absolutely everything you consider atheists to be... I'm sorry, I'm not being rude to point out the flaws with your post. I'm sorry that you think it is some great argument that should sweep aside anything I have to say on the matter but I simply don't think that's the case.

when that very same person essentially believes that the earth and the complexities of this insanely well designed universe were created by chance, for no fucking reason and from fucking nothing. No amount of scientific explainations and/or tongue twisting crap will diverge from this.

... They probably would say, if they're honest in the end when we get to say the question of 'where'd the singularity come from?', that they don't know.

Personally, I find a creator more rational than matter appearing from nowhere and somehow creating all this.

Sure thing... Most people probably agree. What atheists find least rational are personal gods, not 'creators' which could essentially be some natural, unthinking force beyond our understanding as yet that begins the creation of universes.

 

[Kwayera]

Also, to everyone who says that there are multiple theories as to the formation of the universe/star clouds/etc - theory is the wrong word. There are multiple hypotheses; they are theories once there is enough empirical fact to support it

 

[sam04u]

Even if your quotes weren't vague as hell, do you believe in 6 day creation of the earth, <10000 years ago? Last I checked Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars all accept genesis as devine.

It states literally in the Qur'an, a day to God is like 50,000 days to man.
In hindsight, the Qur'an would work perfectly fine without that in there. It doesn't make God seem any more powerful, or any more worthy of aduration. Also, many people will say 300,000 days =/= millions of years. But how would you explain millions of years to people who could barely read?

In retrospect we see that the information in the Qur'an that a day to God is like 50,000 days to man, was made for our generation.

Even if this made sense, where did the energy come from? What sparked the fluctuation?

Energy decay in an unstable radio-isotope somewhere else in the universe. Basically, lets say the total energy in the universe is x. That amount of energy can not be increased or decreased.

Basically, our universe was created on the basis that "energy exists, and there is x-amount of it", because of that, everything in the universe works to preserve this. So if energy is somehow lost, a balance is instantly created. In a multi-dimensional lattice structure, it could seem like a 'random event', but it's hardly so.

Lets say for example I created a universe on the basis that "2 chocolate bars exist". Immediately the universe will begin taking form, taking all the neccesary precautions to make a factory that will manufacture these 2 chocolate bars. But what happens suddenly when a third chocolate bar is being created in the conveyour belt? A big fish comes and eats the first chocolate bar.

Thus we still have two chocolate bars.

Now what happens if the fish reproduces and they try to eat 2 chocolate bars at once? A cat eats the fish.

Basically this goes on, until the equilibrium is reached, and 2 chocolate bars exist for eternity. Still, I don't think fish like chocolate bars

 

[ari89]

It states literally in the Qur'an, a day to God is like 50,000 days to man.

My Koran says 50,000 years not days

 

[sam04u]

My Koran says 50,000 years not days

Ahh. Yeah you're probably right. It's 50,000 years.

 

[ari89]

Ok now I'm just confused...in another part it says it's 1,000 years

 

[jules.09]

You are absolutely everything you consider atheists to be... I'm sorry, I'm not being rude to point out the flaws with your post. I'm sorry that you think it is some great argument that should sweep aside anything I have to say on the matter but I simply don't think that's the case.

... They probably would say, if they're honest in the end when we get to say the question of 'where'd the singularity come from?', that they don't know.

Exactly. We don't know. No one knows at this point in time. But we're interested enough to find out.

I can't believe that some little pseudo-intellectual 17yo from BoS has the gall to insult a person for what they see as irrational beliefs, when that very same person essentially believes that the earth and the complexities of this insanely well designed universe were created by chance, for no fucking reason and from fucking nothing. No amount of scientific explainations and/or tongue twisting crap will diverge from this.

As expected, the classic roundabout argument from the athiest when he cannot answer a question. Science cannot solve the fact that something cannot come from nothing. To believe that the amazingly detailed earth and universe created itself is to defy common sense.

Well, like I said earlier, the burden of proof lies with the religious. Just because these atheists of yours can't answer a question, doesn't mean they're wrong or inferior, as you seem to imply. A nonsensical answer from a theist isn't any better.

Sure, the idea of a detailed earth - irreducible complexity - and universe that created itself must have had a cause; a beginning somewhere. As for God, who doesn't have a beginning? Isn't that defying common sense itself?

The earth is detailed now because animals and plants evolved for quite some time. I earlier said it was a concern that atheists evolve and the religious don't, maybe because the religious reject evolution. They were simply 'created'.

And there you are, calling me a 'little-17-year-old-pseudo-intellectual'. I'm not even 17 yet. That's a bit condescending if you're 1-2 years older than me, isn't it? And I'm not a 'he' either. I'm a she.

I don't hate theists. I simply disagree with your beliefs, and that's why I'm an atheist. You disagree with mine, and you are thus a deist.

And why does the cosmos necessarily need a 'reason' to exist. It may well have come from nothing. And who says that I believe what exists today was the product of chance? Isn't that a bit presumptuous?

I DON'T believe it came from chance at all. You seem to be quite misguided about evolution.

"Mutation is random in the sense that it's not anticipatory of what's needed. Natural selection is anything but random. Natural selection is a guided process, guided not by any higher power, but simply by which genes survive and which genes don't survive. That's a non-random process. The animals that are best at whatever they do-hunting, flying, fishing, swimming, digging-whatever the species does, the individuals that are best at it are the ones that pass on the genes. It's because of this non-random process that lions are so good at hunting, antelopes so good at running away from lions, and fish are so good at swimming."

If you reject science or dislike a world of atheists and people of deviant beliefs from your own, I suggest you pack your bags and head somewhere without the benefits of the internet and electricity. I'm fine here with my theist and atheist friends, but you don't seem to be.

 

[Kwayera]

\
Sure, the idea of a detailed earth - irreducible complexity - and universe that created itself must have had a cause; a beginning somewhere. As for God, who doesn't have a beginning? Isn't that defying common sense itself?

Woah. Stop there. Doesn't exist, and stating it would just encourage him

 

[jules.09]

Woah. Stop there. Doesn't exist, and stating it would just encourage him

Point taken!