Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE/Aus (1 Viewer)

[chris96]

Hi, I am currently in year 11 in VCE, and am really interested in applying to an American uni when it comes time for it - most likely one in the northern California region.
Ah, sorry, I really didn’t plan in writing an essay :/ I have reformatted it to make it easier to focus, and I would love it if you could take a few minutes, but entirely up to you If you cbf reading, just chuck in a quick reply based on what it says in the title


So in Australia, we have:
Years 7-12
Year 11 & 12 you do VCE, and in year 12 we do the SACs and exams and get our study scores, and then the ENTER, and I believe uni preferences are around August in Year 12.

My questions about the USA system:

1. What are the equivalents to the USA senior, sophomore and junior years? From what I see, junior is year 10?
   
2. When do US students take the SAT/ACT? When would I need to take it?
3. Will my VCE count towards uni entrance in the USA? Will any other school results (e.g. year 11) count?
4. How would the VCE score be converted to a US score?
5. When do US students start uni? I heard from someone that it is the equivalent to half a year after year 12 ends - so in a sense i may get a 6 month 'gap year' before US University?
6. Any tips as to what subjects I should be doing? The only basic guide I have been able to find was: http://www.universityofcalifornia.e...d_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/subject_reqs.html, whereas in Australia it is much clearer. Regarding that A-G courselist, am I screwed? Since year 7, I have done a year of history, a year of geography, English every year, Maths every year, Science and Commerce every year, 4 years of Japanese (stopped now), no Visual performing arts, and I have no idea what college-preparatory electives would be equivalent to – anyone care to explain? Would a uni enhancement for Eco be counted as a college-prep? I am currently doing MGM, MMM, ACC, PHY, ENG, and year 12 ECO. Next year I was considering doing a uni enhancement, however I am not so sure anymore. I was also thinking of doing IT software development as a Unit 3/4 next year – any suggestions on this? Most likely, the course I would be aiming for would be Computer Science with a sprinkle of business and related units (see two paragraphs down). Would I need to do Specialist maths? And also from the A-G list, it says that 7 must be taken in your last 2 years – how will I fare? Is Economics treated as a social science? If I do MGM, and Year 11 and 12 MMM would that be counted as 3 years of maths?
7. What other things would I need to do to apply to a US university, and when would I need to do them by? (and yes, I will be contacting admission officers, however first I thought it would be better to ask here to gain a better basic understanding)
8. What is the deal with extracurricular activities for uni entrance in the US? Is this because they are far more competitive? I haven't heard much to this note about Aus universities (if i was going to go to uni in Aus, it would most likely be Monash, or Melbourne, or maybe RMIT). Any tips regarding this? I play tennis for a club (not pro, but decent - the system is D,Dsp,C,Csp,B,Bsp,Areserve,A - I am in Bsp), though am not playing for school sport teams this year, and before considering US universities I wasn't considering it (should I?), and I don’t do any volunteering or community service activities.
   
   A bit of background (note: I hadn’t expected to write this, as what I am interested in had always been so hard to convey to others, who would most likely have not hear of these things):
   
   The reason I am only thinking of all of this now was that for a long time, I knew I was interested in commerce and business, and the careers I was thinking of were along the lines of project manager (this came out on top for a career test I did with my school), lawyer, business management, but I have always loved IT and am very skilled with computers, so this made me think along the lines of Business information systems, e.g. IT consulting, however programming as a job didn't really appeal to me; and I had also always wanted to run my own business (my dad does), because I am very organised and purpose driven, and want to control my own life and future, so that was why I was previously thinking along the lines of 'study commerce at Melbourne and then see where I go' – however it really annoyed me when people always had the attitude that to manage a business you need to go into the industry, work there for a few years, work your way to the top and then consider starting your own venture. However, early this year, I discovered the startup scene in Silicon Valley and other tech hotspots, and pretty much came to an epiphany - I have always loved tech, and even prior to this was extremely interested in web applications and technologies like Evernote, Dropbox etc. – and how these guys made money. And also prior to my discovery, I had been keeping spreadsheets of business ideas and iPhone app ideas, and so I realised that the startup scene seems like a perfect mix for where I want to go in life - combing technology, business, and the possibility to be very successful.
   
   So knowing that, any suggestions on extracurricular activities I could undertake,
   especially ones that I would enjoy but would still benefit me (I am most likely to be aiming for UC Berkeley, or Stanford - with a fall-back to other universities in the Silicon Valley/San Jose area)? My ideas: firstly, given the strong presence of web startups (and the fact that that is my main interest), this year I will be devoting a decent amount of time to learning the depths of web development, and then moving onto web application programming with programming languages such as Ruby and Python, with the Rails and Django or Pylons (or other) web frameworks respectively. I plan to evaluate the languages first and then choose one to focus on initially, however my gut feeling tells me that it will be Ruby with Rails, however Python and Django/Pylons or Scala and Lift are also interesting ideas. So given this, I was thinking that it could be good to offer web development services to small businesses and non-profits free of charge? Would top universities like Stanford look kindly upon this or is there no point? Would they look differently if it was for charge? Other ideas – setting up and helping elderly people in retirement homes with computers (as a door to door service)?

 

[lychnobity]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

If you want to apply for an undergraduate program in the USA, you've got to pick out the places you'd like to go to and make an individual application there. Their system isn't like ours, where you get to pick 9 courses from whatever uni based on an ATAR. You write a college letter, convert your ATAR to their equivalent system (ie on their website) and wait to hear some correspondence from them.

OR

You could email the appropriate contact, found on the website, about international student admission.

At the end of the day, the high school differences don't matter unless you want to do high school over there.

 

[dakotarella]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

you probably will need to do SATs.(if my memory serves me right)

SAT 1 is literacy and numeracy
SAT 2 is on other subjects u r studying

it depends on the uni,
but some only want sat1, whereas really good schools like columbia, harvard, etc.
would require both sat 1 and 2. Also, if i'm right, there is a set number sat2 tests u need to take to apply to some unis. You'll need to check that...

u normally have to send different application forms to all the unis u want to apply for, meaning that u'll need to write application essays and so forth for each uni.
However, for some unis, they accept the 'common application form' , so u can just use that form to apply to the unis

american unis look at everything. not just ur academic results but your achievements in sport, community service, leadership, etc etc. They love leaders and creative & proactive people. You'll need to write a good college essay and application form! When you are writing one, search in google for successful college application essays. There is also a book called " 50 Successful Harvard Application Essays". If you read this book, i think you'll be amazed at the applicants' creativity.

Keep in mind too, that you'll need references from other people...so make a good impression on your teachers!!!

Also, American unis have early action application(dunno the exact name). I cant remember the details of the system too well off the top of my head, but find out about that too..

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/uga/application/index.html


One thing that is different for American highschools is that they offer what is called AP (advanced placement) courses. these are kinda uni level course (but not quite) and apparently can be used as uni credit. Really good unis like Ivy League really want to see that the applicants have undertaken at least one or two of these AP courses.

Lastly...if I remember correctly, American unis are normally 4 years as opposed to 3 yrs in australia. This is because they believe in liberal education (sth like that) and make u learn English, maths, etc. before starting ur major in second yr. hectic...

For the SAT1's literacy part, you'll need to know A LOT of vocabulary. When i took ssat (the test u do when you apply to highschools), i needed to memorise more than 2000 to do well. But then again, I'm not an avid reader so obviously English vocabulary wasnt my forte.

Anyways
good luck! hope this helps

 

[dakotarella]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

i think American students sit their SATS from May-July. Probably.
There are some people who take it late, like in October and November but all the good students take it earlier than that....

btw, american unis are really expensive, unless you get the scholarship of course. most good unis have really good need-blind scholarship schemes - they dont discriminate on age, gender, ethnicity but only look at your financial difficulty and your potential...

America is heaps more competitive than Australia. Unis like Stanford and all the UC unis will be extremely competitive. I think UCLA is one of the best public? unis so the competion is fierce. All the ivy league unis and stanford, etc are private, so they are inevitably very expensive (well, more costly than australian unis)

Also, highschool in America is Yr 9-12. yr 7-8 is middle school i think.

You know, i think you should post this question in Yahoo answers. There will be a lot more people who knows the system better than i do, and who are willing to explain the process to you.

hope that helps.

 

[wendybird]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

I was about to pass this over as a case of tl;dr - but the numbering won me over in the end.

What are the equivalents to the USA senior, sophomore and junior years? From what I see, junior is year 10?

Freshman, Sophomore, Senior = Yr 10, 11, 12.

When do US students take the SAT/ACT? When would I need to take it?
They take it whenever they like. Some take it as freshman, some take it at Juniors. You're allowed to re-take as many times as you like, so for some people, why not start early?

For Aussies, you can also take it whenever you like. I've seen ppl take it as early as Yr 11. Generally, just take it before October of Yr12. (Or you'll be stressed out as hell like me, cramming Matrices and complex numbers post-HSC - gross!)

Will my VCE count towards uni entrance in the USA? Will any other school results (e.g. year 11) count?

No, not in the sense that the SATs will count. But they're comparing you against other applicants like you (ie. Victorians/Australians). So if they see that most of your fellow victorian applicants have a certain VCE then marks that fall well short will definitely stand out. (so in that sense, comparatively, it does count).

How would the VCE score be converted to a US score?
It doesn't.

When do US students start uni? I heard from someone that it is the equivalent to half a year after year 12 ends - so in a sense i may get a 6 month 'gap year' before US University?

That's right. Uni there - and actually unis in most of the Northern Hemisphere - start late August/September. Most advisers suggest that you either take a whole year off as a gap year, of you start uni here. There are no guarantees of getting in, so if you don't want a gap year, just start. Better safe than sorry. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and all that jazz.

Any tips as to what subjects I should be doing?
I don't honestly think they care too much about the specifics as long as there is some:
- Maths
- English
- Science.
- Foreign language.
- Social Science.

What other things would I need to do to apply to a US university, and when would I need to do them by? (and yes, I will be contacting admission officers, however first I thought it would be better to ask here to gain a better basic understanding)

No, you've got it wrong. Admissions officers' jobs are NOT to tell you what to do in your application. Their job is to read the applications and decide who gets in. They'll likely not answer or just redirect you to the school website. What you need to do basically consist of
1. The general Common Application (google it).
2. The specific Supplement Application (download it from the Common App website).

All this specific info (and it definitely varies from school to school - will be found in the "Admissions" section of each school you're interested in.

What is the deal with extracurricular activities for uni entrance in the US?

ECs are a big deal, full stop. The smartest person won't get in with mediocre or sub-par extracurriculars. The rationale behind it? Well for very competitive colleges (Ivies, top universities - ie. MIT/Stanford etc) they've got enough smart people applying who are all of high academic standards that they can afford to use OTHER more subjective factors to differentiate the applicants.

That's why things like your personal essays, extracurriculars, teacher reccommendations matter a great deal.

I think of US college applications more of a "Package" - with lots of components. Academics are just one component, ECs, personal character etc - are other components. They're trying to admit people not just scores.

 

[cem]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

I was about to pass this over as a case of tl;dr - but the numbering won me over in the end.

What are the equivalents to the USA senior, sophomore and junior years? From what I see, junior is year 10?

Freshman, Sophomore, Senior = Yr 10, 11, 12.

I think you have missed Junior in there.

I understand High School is four years - Freshman = Year 9, Sophomore = Year 10, Junior = Year 11 and Senior = Year 12. (I taught a student who went to High School there on a scholarship for basketball from Year 10 and he was a Sophomore that year and then a Junior and a Senior - he then proceeded to college on a basketball scholarship - but didn't go any further in the US).

 

[wendybird]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

I think you have missed Junior in there.

I understand High School is four years - Freshman = Year 9, Sophomore = Year 10, Junior = Year 11 and Senior = Year 12. (I taught a student who went to High School there on a scholarship for basketball from Year 10 and he was a Sophomore that year and then a Junior and a Senior - he then proceeded to college on a basketball scholarship - but didn't go any further in the US).

You're right - I blanked on that one.
I provided my reports 9-12 as well.

 

[Lucid Scintilla]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

Visit College Confidential for general, non-specific (Australia-to-States) queries.

Sorry for beating a dead horse and the untimeliness of my reply.

Age segregation or grade stratification and the use of frosh, soph., junior, and senior is throughout grades 9-12 and collegiate years.

("Freshman", if you're so inclined; "frosh" is acceptable.)

The commencement time and age of enrollments vary.
With primary and secondary schooling, generally, the United States starts school after Labor Day (first Monday in September); for example, a school in St. Louis may commence its academic year earlier than a school in Pasadena (SoCal). This variance is all throughout the levels of education in the States, with some colleges and universities using the four quarter, three trimester, two semester, or some adaptation; some institutions are all-year-round even.
Fall semester usually starts August/September-y.

El Grande Norte's education and assessment system allows for retakes and are year-round (fewer tests are conducted in some foreign countries). Assessments are taken at the discretion of those who take them, and matriculation to college is not contingent on graduation from secondary school (also, many graduation ceremonies are treated as big deals, with mortarboard and gowns/frocks; perhaps due to not all matriculating to college).

(Note that SAT test dates are almost always, if not always, on Saturdays; if this conflicts with religious beliefs, you can reschedule for the Sunday. Thank the First Amendment -- for keeping things kosher and all.)

As an Australian, utilize years 8-10 to prep standardized tests and years 9-11 to do them.

OP's/TER's/VCE's/UAI's/ATAR's and report cards are non-essential and do not directly influence an applicant's admission. Should you feel that graduating high school is but a backdated formality and forgo-able, it wouldn't be surprising you can't provide reports for the years to come and the Australian alphabet-spaghetti tertiary admission index (unless you underhandedly accelerate).

The tertiary admission index can be converted, but it's erroneous to do so. Of less screwy conversion would be tertiary academic results (the 7.0 scale conversion to the 4.0 scale is doable and, more importantly, conventional/accepted).

Stateside colleges start on a variety of dates. Virtually all -- like all -- will start before the Australian tertiary admission exams.
I would recommend, should you have been through the process and accepted, dropping out in year 12, prior to tertiary admission exams, after matriculation to a college (e.g., acceptance letter in March, hanging around, and dropping out); or, if you do apply for after secondary school graduation, start some education in Australia and wait till your acceptance e-mails, letters, envelopes, pages, and tubes in spring.

Sorry. I totally dropped the ball on this one and don't comprehend your question.

High-school subjects combinations that would be advised are not advised. Do try to take subjects that are a balance between those you excel at and those that are for breadth of knowledge (if your school offers the Int. Bac., perhaps you could do that and be a gimp/masochist, rather than do the state's standard admissions test(s)).

It'd be advisable to check individual college's reqs -- and their app processes and other thingies (e.g., biographical data, essays, portfolios, CD's with a sample of your composition). With some colleges, you can apply via common multi-app thingy (yo, MIT di'n't need one!) and/or agencies. While SAT's/ACT's are standard (although necessity to take SAT I and SAT II's varies), app processes vary significantly.

Extracurricular activities, including volunteering, are never truly voluntary (for college apps). The primary rationale, I proffer, as to why this is the case is that colleges want to admit those who will balance their (extraordinary) education with being a(n extraordinary) human being, or something clichéd and to that effect. (Some colleges will force you to rep the college in sport or take up gym credits.)

Highly-selective colleges are so named due to the number of admissions given an applicant pool; the number of more-qualified applicants towers the number that can be and are accepted. What distinguishes a candidate will be the quality of academic curriculum and extraordinary initiative; but, also, personal qualities and achievement (id est, extracurriculars). This is not solely a motif throughout secondary school and in college applications, but this is often the difference between being hired for a job, internship, or other post (e.g., presidential aide, law clerk to John Glover Roberts).

EC's give a peripheral and superficial insight into an applicant's non-academic interests and motivation, as eyes are the window to soul. They count insofar as they are demonstrative of an applicant's capacity to manage time, while excelling academically. The quality of the involvement is always more important than the quantity of the involvement.

EC's also provide an applicant with something to do at any time, I s'pose.

I also suggest, if you're writing your application essays, I suggest that you don't try and emulate previous successful essays. Originality is preferable.

While originality is much preferred, nothing is truly original.

Eschew writing anything that appears too essay-farm/mill organic and gravitate towards writing something that dazzles.

Answer the damn question; be original; be yourself; unless you're James Joyce, don't write like him -- given limits, be economical with your words, like Hemingway; invoke poetry, imagery, and prose and evoke the senses -- whatever you learnt on your first days when you were a green li'l seven grader; have a strong introduction, conclusion, and linking sentences; and draft and revise (like, five times).
Expressing your personal values and all that will often win you brownie points.
If you're fo shizzles with apps, you could pay some professional -- that is, non-uni kid who wants to gyp you out of, like, $100 -- to edit your essay(s).

I understand High School is four years

Generally, yes.

But, to virtually all, there is an exception, and some middle school/junior high school and high school proper are at the same institution (and, so, it can be argued that high school at such an institution is six-years long).

This is, yes, a trivial and moot point.

 

[chrisnumber1]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

in america they say slope while we say gradient!

 

[Lucid Scintilla]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

in america they say slope while we say gradient!

Whatchu talking about?

There is a difference between (scalar) slopes and (vector) gradients -- at least in eighteen-oh-two/multivariable calculus. It's a nuisance of a nuance.

 

[chris96]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

Wow, thank you guys so much for the awesome responses Sorry for the delay.
I will take a few days to process it all, and do a proper response within the next week.
If anyone has anything to add, please go ahead
One thing I was wondering about was whether it would be worth me pursuing and continuing in tennis. I don't play at an extremely high level, I would be maybe the 6th best or so in my year level at school, and I play B special grade competition - see the ranks here - WDTA Waverley Tennis Junior Ladders. I play Boys Singles/Doubles Rubbers.
However, I am not enjoying it like I used to and was thinking about quitting next season. I don't play any other sports, I'm not very passionate for sports. So would continuing tennis at this level (I would progress a bit in between now and then, but I won't be going pro ) boost my chances at a uni like Stanford or UC Berkeley?

 

[artist91]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

Def don't give up tennis if it's the only sport you do. Having no sports at all will lower your chances for sure... especially as an international applicant because you have to do a little more to impress!

Berkeley isn't particularly hard to get into but the UC system is an absolute PAIN when it comes to fin aid. I'm a US citizen and I had such a hard time with aid at UCLA compared to other schools I was accepted by. They only seem to care about in-state students in that department so watch out for that as an international... you should def be preparing to pay full tuition.

And when it comes to Stanford... well I was rejected by them lol and i was in 4 varsity teams including nationals for running so I guess either a) they don't care about sports too much or b) the quality of the ECs applicants had were super super high.

But yeah don't stop tennis just yet! If you're set on going to the US it's something you should stick with to give yourself the best possible shot!

 

[artist91]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

Def don't give up tennis if it's the only sport you do. Having no sports at all will lower your chances for sure... especially as an international applicant because you have to do a little more to impress!

Berkeley isn't particularly hard to get into but the UC system is an absolute PAIN when it comes to fin aid. I'm a US citizen and I had such a hard time with aid at UCLA compared to other schools I was accepted by. They only seem to care about in-state students in that department so watch out for that as an international... you should def be preparing to pay full tuition.

And when it comes to Stanford... well I was rejected by them lol and i was in 4 varsity teams including nationals for running so I guess either a) they don't care about sports too much or b) the quality of the ECs applicants had were super super high.

But yeah don't stop tennis just yet! If you're set on going to the US it's something you should stick with to give yourself the best possible shot!

 

[chris96]

Re: Can you explain the basic differences between the US schooling/uni system and VCE

Okay, I have read everything - here are the notes that I have taken out:

• Yr 9 = Freshman, 10 = Sophomore, 11 = Junior, 12 = Senior
• SAT/ACT timing: They start taking it at year 9!!! Wish I had my epiphany earlier I should sit before Sep/Oct 2011.
• SAT/ACT: Need to do SAT 1 & some/2 SAT 2 (dependant on the school)
• Will my VCE count: Yes - but not that much or? yes, counts quite a lot. Depends on the school?
• How is the VCE score converted: It's not.
• When does Uni start: Late Aug/September. So take a gap year or start uni in Aus if applying for the 2012 uni year.
• Subject to do: APs - does this mean I should do a uni enhancement course next year? Foreign language - any issues with me given that I stopped Jap this year?
• Applying: you write out individual application letters (same or different to the supplement applications?) + the common app form. Look at successful app letters. References are needed.
• ECs: leadership, creativity. Quality over quantity

What is the difference between college and uni? I was told that the US system is more like Melbourne Uni's breadth subject system where you have to study a few years on a more general base, then you can go in and specialise - is this right?

What is the PSAT? Would I need to take that?
And with all the talk about SAT 1 & 2s, what about the ACTs? Would I need to take those?

Thanks heaps for this table too - what is the source for that? http://sat.collegeboard.com/register/sat-international-dates ?

What did you mean by this?

Should you feel that graduating high school is but a backdated formality and forgo-able, it wouldn't be surprising you can't provide reports for the years to come and the Australian alphabet-spaghetti tertiary admission index (unless you underhandedly accelerate).

And then regarding:

I would recommend, should you have been through the process and accepted, dropping out in year 12, prior to tertiary admission exams, after matriculation to a college (e.g., acceptance letter in March, hanging around, and dropping out); or, if you do apply for after secondary school graduation, start some education in Australia and wait till your acceptance e-mails, letters, envelopes, pages, and tubes in spring.

So then you are saying that I should take it around October/November this year and then apply to the college this year (eg Stanford deadline is Jan 1)? Or could I do the December one? How long do the results take? Would it even be possible to apply one year early? And how would my chances go with only a few months of prep-part time?


And re: tennis - ouch, so even if I aren't very good it will lower my chances to drop it?


And thank you guys so much for all this help - honestly, I couldn't have hoped for better responses So thank you all