Capitalism or Communism? (20 Viewers)

[boris]

She should google Microsoft and see what a true monopoly was.

 

[bassistx]

I am familiar with those terms.
Exaggeration is used for emphasis. Maybe you learnt that in English Ext1?

 

[boris]

I am familiar with those terms.
Exaggeration is used for emphasis. Maybe you learnt that in English Ext1?

Can't say we were taught that exaggeration is used for emphasis. Maybe if you're writing a nice little fictional story about bullshit.
Especially not when you're discussing world economies.

 

[bassistx]

Can't say we were taught that exaggeration is used for emphasis. Maybe if you're writing a nice little fictional story about bullshit.
Especially not when you're discussing world economies.

You know what? I saved the pages which had posts I didn't reply to so I could come back to them.
However, if we're going to break things down into words and letters, we're not going to get anywhere.
I don't have time for this. It was interesting, but I've got a sickle stuck up my ass forever

Peace.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

It makes sense enough, say a company has a monopoly on our roads and competitors cannot compete with them then that would mean through the magic guiding hand of capitalism entrepreneurs will invent flying cars and we'll all live in houses on stilts.

 

[boris]

http://news.csu.edu.au/director/lat...EAE541A62CD080A4B8BB209&printtemplate=release

 

[Captain Gh3y]

That's why in order to ensure we keep growing our own food here in Australia, we need to raise taxes on imported goods to record levels.

This would also help eliminate our foreign deficits and keep money in the local economy.

 

[flappinghippo]

This would also help eliminate our foreign deficits and keep money in the local economy.

Firstly, does anyone know how much agriculture contributes to our GDP? Anyone?

3.8 fucking percent (source)

Yeah okay right we're a 'farming' nation.. fuck off. Nobody makes money in farming except huge corporations, which is incidentally where most of the government subsidies go to.

That's why in order to ensure we keep growing our own food here in Australia, we need to raise taxes on imported goods to record levels.

And to keep money in the local economy? What, like the EU? Where agricultural grants and subsidies take up half the EU budget, to the degree that money given to farmers amount to US$2.50 per cow per day, in a world where around 3 billion people live on less than US$2 a day? Where Europeans are taxed millions of dollars each year so that they can have a smaller selection of products –food and clothing- at a higher price? Where there is such a surplus of food as a result of these protectionist policies that the EU pays farmers not to grow food?

This is the same old tired argument used to benefit a small circle of lobbyists and industrialists at the expense of the poor. It's morally despicable and selfish.

"There is no easier way of squandering money than through an advanced agricultural policy. Affluent countries are drenching farmers with money through protectionism, subsidies, and export grants. The total cost of agricultural policy in 29 affluent cOECD countries burdens taxpayers and consumers a staggering $360 billion. For that money, you could fly the 56 million ocws in these countries once around the world every year - business class - with plenty of change left over. If they're willing to fly coach, the cows could also be given $2,800 each in pocket money to spend in tax-free shops during their stopovers in the US, the EU, and Asia."

What would and has this resulted in? Well, it means that developing countries are denied the chance to compete where they can (farming) with more affluent countries. It means consumers have less choice in products, and it means they pay for food whether they buy it or not (through taxes).

NOBODY FUCKING WINS EXCEPT SOME LOBBYISTS AND CORPORATIONS

it is a possibility in a totally unregulated market along with many other potentially destructive corporate monopolies.

Private monopolies are ALWAYS better than government monopolies because one is implicitly backed by a gun and the other could be taken down tomorrow by a dude with ambition.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

That doesn't make sense at all. There are certain goods for which there are no subsitutes, like roads, another good example is food. If a corporation or cartel controls the food supply there is no guiding hand, just on going price gouging, huge profits for the monopoly and great exploitation of everyone else.

hahahahaha you thought I was being serious.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Private monopolies are ALWAYS better than government monopolies because one is implicitly backed by a gun and the other could be taken down tomorrow by a dude with ambition.

And here I was believing history when it talked about all those governments that were overthrown, and all those corparations who were backed by a gun. :rofl:

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Firstly, does anyone know how much agriculture contributes to our GDP? Anyone?

3.8 fucking percent (source)

Yeah okay right we're a 'farming' nation.. fuck off. Nobody makes money in farming except huge corporations, which is incidentally where most of the government subsidies go to.


And to keep money in the local economy? What, like the EU? Where agricultural grants and subsidies take up half the EU budget, to the degree that money given to farmers amount to US$2.50 per cow per day, in a world where around 3 billion people live on less than US$2 a day? Where Europeans are taxed millions of dollars each year so that they can have a smaller selection of products –food and clothing- at a higher price? Where there is such a surplus of food as a result of these protectionist policies that the EU pays farmers not to grow food?

This is the same old tired argument used to benefit a small circle of lobbyists and industrialists at the expense of the poor. It's morally despicable and selfish.



What would and has this resulted in? Well, it means that developing countries are denied the chance to compete where they can (farming) with more affluent countries. It means consumers have less choice in products, and it means they pay for food whether they buy it or not (through taxes).

NOBODY FUCKING WINS EXCEPT SOME LOBBYISTS AND CORPORATIONS



Private monopolies are ALWAYS better than government monopolies because one is implicitly backed by a gun and the other could be taken down tomorrow by a dude with ambition.

Your argument fails to take into account the fact that continually importing all our products is ruining local aussie businesses and increasing our foreign debts, increasing unemployment and the cost of living, and hurting ordinary australians.

this could all be solved simply by raising tariffs to record levels... i've been saying it on talkback radio and writing my local MP for years

 

[risole91]

i havent xpressed my opinion in here yet.

capitalism FTW.

 

[risole91]

after reading this more thoroughly, i like boris.

lolol

 

[boris]

after reading this more thoroughly, i like boris.

lolol

Wise choice.

 

[flappinghippo]

And here I was believing history when it talked about all those governments that were overthrown, and all those corparations who were backed by a gun. :rofl:

.. History talks to you?

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

We communists do possess skills that you mortals don't have.

 

[flappinghippo]

They are both backed by a gun. Private monopolies rely on the enforcement of property rights by the state. At least in a democracy we can vote out the government. Private monopolies are accountable to no one.

Going back to my food example, how does a "dude with ambition" take down a corporation or cartel which has a monopoly on the supply of arable land?

There is either a monopoly or competition between companies.

If the government runs the postal service, for example, then by law you, as a citizen, are not allowed to start your own. A couple did this in the 70s in the US, and ran a more efficient service than the national state-owned one, but were soon sued by the government and made to stop (I read this in Freedom to Choose, by Milton Friedman). The monopoly is held in place by force. Hence, backed by a gun.

At least with a private monopoly there is more of a chance of it being broken up – there is a possiblity, however small – so therefore the door is open to change. Might I direct you to Microsoft and Apple, or better, Microsoft and Google?

Monopolies are bad full stop, but with private monopolies comes the possibility of innovation. With government monopolies all you see is stagnation and waste.

 

[flappinghippo]

We communists do possess skills that you mortals don't have.

Like having no remorse at disposing of tens of millions of your fellow 'equals'.. during peacetime?

 

[flappinghippo]

Your argument fails to take into account the fact that continually importing all our products is ruining local aussie businesses and increasing our foreign debts, increasing unemployment and the cost of living, and hurting ordinary australians.

this could all be solved simply by raising tariffs to record levels... i've been saying it on talkback radio and writing my local MP for years

You're joking aren't you?

Why do you and me have to pay more money for a product simply because it crosses a border?

If you think it's necessary to do so, then why limit tariffs to goods crossing national borders? Why not state or town borders? Isn't it a little arbitrary?

Tell me, if we pay more than is necessary for products, wouldn't that increase living costs?

If huge tariffs were placed on all imported cars so that the only sensible choice was to buy Australian-made, who benefits? The Australian car industry, I suppose, but you and me? We'd be buying these cars not because they are the best but just because they are Australian. Money that could be saved and invested in other things instead get sunk into an industry that can't pull its own weight. This hurts poor people the most – they can't afford an artificially expensive car*– and leaves the rich people where they are – the only ones able to afford importing. Australia as a whole loses just for the benefit of a small group of carmakers.

Oh, wait, that actually happened.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Like having no remorse at disposing of tens of millions of your fellow 'equals'.. during peacetime?

that's not communist, u ass!