capped subjects (3 Viewers)

[deyveed]

Originally posted by Lazarus
1. Yes (and the average variation).
2. No. See my post on the first page. Neither Standard nor Advanced is ever capped.

Wait. We are talking about Scaled marks right?
I think i understand now. You're saying that English isn't capped (i assume because the quality of the candidature is average since everyone does English) thats why it is possible to get 100 but just unlikely.

If a subject has a below average candidature quality (compared to other subjects) then a 'cap' will occur right?
Also, Maximum scaled marks isn't the 'cap' right?

 

[stag_j]

for our trial examination i ranked first. its a category b subject so it doesnt have normal assessments and stuff like most subjects. i think the raw mark was 95%.
4u math my raw mark was 60%. ranked something like 30/50 at baulkham hills...

 

[juggernaut]

dunno if i misunderstood, but if a course has a max scaled mark of 43 (per 1 unit).. does that mean the highest possible mark to get is 86?

 

[Benno]

good question

umm i have one aswell overall how many marks will i lose in these subjects

standard eng
gen maths
mod hist
Geo
senior science

all my ranks are top 10%

 

[sam04u]

DAMNN the last 2 questions are important anyone with answers (they are questions i waana ask)

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by juggernaut
dunno if i misunderstood, but if a course has a max scaled mark of 43 (per 1 unit).. does that mean the highest possible mark to get is 86?

The highest possible scaled mark, in that particular year, yes.

Originally posted by Benno
umm i have one aswell overall how many marks will i lose in these subjects

It's impossible to say how many marks will be lost or gained due to scaling, as it is your raw marks that are scaled, and no information whatsoever is published regarding raw marks.

 

[Enlightened_One]

Legal can't be capped. No subject is actually capped per se, if you want the truth (to the best of my knowledge). Everyone says that in Standard English you won't get over eighty because all the people who are good at English do advanced english. That is what is meant by capped, I think.
Although a girl at some Newcastle school, or Forster, I can't remember, recieved over 90 doing standard English.
Capped simply means that the asusmption is that the smart people won't do that subject, and it's marks will be low.
Legal can't be capped though, because it's scaled up in HSC, so there is no logic in capping it. Business studies though is sclaed down, because they at the UAI centre figure only dumb arses do Business, and figure no one will get good marks.
Atleast that's the way I see it.

 

[Lazarus]

An explanation of capping was provided on the first page of this thread.

Originally posted by Lazarus
In terms of aligned marks - being the marks that you're awarded by the Board - no courses are capped (as Minai pointed out).

However, a maximum scaled mark is imposed on some courses during the scaling process when UAIs are calculated. You can read about how this is done in the Report on the Scaling of the 2002 NSW HSC (produced by the Technical Committee on Scaling and published by the UAC).

Under this 'capping of scaled marks' regime, English (Standard) and English (Advanced) are never capped. In addition to this, only the top few percent of students are affected. The caps are not unreasonable - certainly not as low as 80%! The vast majority of courses have a maximum scaled mark near 50 (on a 1-unit basis).

I've constructed a page displaying which courses have, in the past, had a maximum scaled mark imposed on them. You should pay more attention to the 2002 listing than the listing for 2001, as it was produced from the same formula that will be applied for your HSC.

You can access it here: <a href=/capping.php target=_blank>Maximum Scaled Marks</a>

 

[barrel_roll]

How about music course 1?.....Our school didn't offer course 2, which is what i wanted to do!

 

[paper cup]

The standard overall for legal isn't that brilliant, thats all. If your school does options which aren't done as much (e.g world order and indigenous people) there is a better chance of doing well- well thats what an hsc marker told me

what do you mean, loads of schools do ATSI!

 

[Captain pi]

Reading table A3 at UAC website for this year, I noticed that it seems as if History Extension has a cap on it: the maximum scaled mark was 49.5. Admittedly, this is not a huge cap; but I would have thought that History Extension would never be capped.

Discuss.

 

[Trev]

Reading table A3 at UAC website for this year, I noticed that it seems as if History Extension has a cap on it: the maximum scaled mark was 49.5. Admittedly, this is not a huge cap; but I would have thought that History Extension would never be capped.

Discuss.

other extension courses, such as language ones, are capped aren't they? (assuming since some language extension courses have such low scaling)
anywho imo id hate to do ext hist - i hate hist

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Reading table A3 at UAC website for this year, I noticed that it seems as if History Extension has a cap on it: the maximum scaled mark was 49.5. Admittedly, this is not a huge cap; but I would have thought that History Extension would never be capped.

Discuss.

Hmm...me too.
Generally extension subjects (excluding languages) don't have caps, but the 2004 candidature was probably not as able as in previous years. We'll have to wait until the end of this year to see whether it's a continuing pattern - it may be that schools are becoming increasingly lenient as to the quality of students they accept into History Extension. Or else, it may have just be a randomly less able candidature last year.

 

[Captain pi]

Why?

Why was History Extension capped?

 

[Captain pi]

An explanation of capping was provided on the first page of this thread.

By the way, the page of the relevant information is 15 of 41.

 

[Trev]

haha, after 3 1/2 weeks you still havn't got your answer
only god knows, try a ouiji board to find out

 

[Lazarus]

Why was History Extension capped?

The same reason other courses were capped.

The assumption underlying the capping system is that the combined English Standard/Advanced candidature is representative of the entire HSC cohort. And it only excludes a few thousand students, so this assumption should be valid.

The History Extension candidature was, on average, less able and/or less variable than the combined English candidature, and so a maximum mark less than the maximum mark for the combined English candidature (i.e. less than 50) was justified.

 

[Captain pi]

The rationale behind capping the scaled marks of courses is to discourage highly-able students from entering courses with a low-ability candidature; correct?

Therefore, I humbly propose amending the capping system such that Extension courses, where the corresponding lower course is not capped, are, too, not capped; or, such extension courses could only be capped to the extent of the corresponding lower course. (Inasmuch as students entering Extension courses, where the corresponding lower course is not capped, are not 'dumbing down' at all – and yet, students of History Extension, in 2004, were disadvantaged.)

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

The rationale behind capping the scaled marks of courses is to discourage highly-able students from entering courses with a low-ability candidature; correct?

Therefore, I humbly propose amending the capping system such that Extension courses, where the corresponding lower course is not capped, are, too, not capped; or, such extension courses could only be capped to the extent of the corresponding lower course. (Inasmuch as students entering Extension courses, where the corresponding lower course is not capped, are not 'dumbing down' at all – and yet, students of History Extension, in 2004, were disadvantaged.)

Remember that in the case of History Extension, students either do Ancient, Modern or both and each would have a candidature with different abilities. So it might be difficult to estimate the "true" cap for History Extension based on two entirely different courses.

Students may still be 'dumbing down' by taking History Extension...simply because it's an extension course does not imply that the candidature is of a high quality. Additionally, not all of the best Ancient and Modern History students will choose to do the extra 1-unit course, so using them to estimate the cap for History Extension might be misleading. If a more stringent and universal entrance system for History Extension is introduced, this problem would be eliminated and your proposed method might work.

 

[Captain pi]

Remember that in the case of History Extension, students either do Ancient, Modern or both and each would have a candidature with different abilities. So it might be difficult to estimate the "true" cap for History Extension based on two entirely different courses.

Yes, perhaps the mean or the lower of the two could be used. But, in 2004, both of the related courses were uncapped.

Students may still be 'dumbing down' by taking History Extension...simply because it's an extension course does not imply that the candidature is of a high quality. Additionally, not all of the best Ancient and Modern History students will choose to do the extra 1-unit course, so using them to estimate the cap for History Extension might be misleading.

The candidature may be less able, but students do not have foreknowledge of theirs and the cohort's performance in the related course. Nevertheless, a student can hardly be considered to 'dumb down' if he enters an extension course from a course which does not have a capping.

Perhaps, the candidature in an extension course cannot be considered of a higher quality than the related course; but, I think that students expect the quality of the candidature to be higher in an extension course than a related course, and so can be hardly considered to be 'dumbing down'.