Career advice for an older member (1 Viewer)

[khosanman]

Hi all, havent been on here for a while.

Anyway here's the story...

I was previously working at GSJbwere in melbourne, worked there for a year, as an analyst in private wealth. Was a tax reporting related, very back officey position. Anyway I saw how the investments and trading and what not world works and I didnt like it and wanted to get more into an accounting related role and work with large companies too rather then private individuals. Done a double bachelor in accounting and banking and finance. And have completed CFA level1. I am an associate CPA, haven't done any exams for it yet though(means i just got the right undergrad degree and paid up!)! I am 26 years old by the way, yes i know thats ancient here.

Anyway my girlfriend is from scandinavia, and I left melbourne to come and live with her here as she has had to continue her studies. I have been extremely lucky and managed to get a job in transfer pricing at a big 4 here. It is an area I would certainly like to work in and stay in for a while and build a bit of experience and backbone to my CV. I never would have got a job like this in Australia that is for sure, well past grad, finished mid 2005 and my experience is nothing special unless you can spin it well like i did i guess. So I count myself so lucky to get this job and I am super excited about it.

Now my dilemma is that I cannot do CA here which I would do if possible. And I will continue to do CFA I'd say as they have told me that is the one thing they do encourage here for people in Transfer pricing to do and lots do, how its related im not sure, i think its the quantitative side of it and financial analysis stuff. So I'm enrolled in CPA which I can do from here, will have to do exam in london. It is on oct 23, I have not studied in the last month or so as Ive been looking for a job and apartment. So I am thinking not to bother doing it.

But what do people think is it worth me doing a CPA from here, will it help me when I eventually return to australia, as if I want to go to big 4, don't they want CA's? Or is it just enough to do a CFA? I just dont like the long breaks between CFA exams, so figure I csan do something else. Are there any other useful qualifications I could do?

Long rant sorry, but pretty bored here too, I mean I don't start work for a few weeks now and I haven't got many friend here to do anything with!

 

[pete_mate]

if you dont like markets and prefer accounting, why the hell would you do CFA?

Also, how the hell would market pricing theories and such help if you wanted to progress though tax.

A CFA can be useful in auditing financial services, but in tax.. its a irrelevant i think.

Both qualifications are good, but to progress in accounting you need CPA

 

[khosanman]

Mate, I think you are a little green behind the ears on what transfer pricing is. Yes at the end of the day it is work done to make sure correct taxes are paid, but in valuing and determining prices, there really isnt any traditional tax type work. It is all done using benchmarking , valuations and risk analysis really. Although Im not 100% sure of exactlly, as I havent started yet, but its not like normal tax.

Also big 4's i have been told by the one I am working for are promoting there transfer pricing staff to do CFA.

So I guess my question is if doing CPA is really worth it if I want to get into a more corporate finance advisory type role later?

 

[ifsonotso_100]

Mate, I think you are a little green behind the ears on what transfer pricing is. Yes at the end of the day it is work done to make sure correct taxes are paid, but in valuing and determining prices, there really isnt any traditional tax type work. It is all done using benchmarking , valuations and risk analysis really. Although Im not 100% sure of exactlly, as I havent started yet, but its not like normal tax.

Also big 4's i have been told by the one I am working for are promoting there transfer pricing staff to do CFA.

So I guess my question is if doing CPA is really worth it if I want to get into a more corporate finance advisory type role later?

yeah pete_mate really has no idea.

I think continue with ur CFA and leave the CPA for the time being, however if u are desperate to do something else then you can but I think enjoy ur time in between exams and maybe focus on an mba down the track after getting ur cfa.

Why not get in contact with some firms you'd be interested in and tell them your dilemma/what you are considering. I'm sure HR will give you an email/no of someone who'd be willing to help u out/give advice.

 

[mismatch]

Transfer pricing deals with Schedule 25A and a lot of international transfer pricing agreements.

It is a lot of advisory consulting work, rather than the normal compliance work. Which Big 4 did you get into?

 

[khosanman]

at deloitte

 

[Newbie]

Mate, I think you are a little green behind the ears on what transfer pricing is. Yes at the end of the day it is work done to make sure correct taxes are paid, but in valuing and determining prices, there really isnt any traditional tax type work. It is all done using benchmarking , valuations and risk analysis really. Although Im not 100% sure of exactlly, as I havent started yet, but its not like normal tax.

Also big 4's i have been told by the one I am working for are promoting there transfer pricing staff to do CFA.

So I guess my question is if doing CPA is really worth it if I want to get into a more corporate finance advisory type role later?

i think you are as green as him considering you havent started.

transfer pricing uses several different pricing methods and applies them to about 4 sections of the tax act.

im sorry there is no risk-analysis involved. unless you mean the risk analysis is working out how to get out of a transfer pricing review when you have a dodgy structure. lol

 

[khosanman]

i think you are as green as him considering you havent started.

transfer pricing uses several different pricing methods and applies them to about 4 sections of the tax act.

im sorry there is no risk-analysis involved. unless you mean the risk analysis is working out how to get out of a transfer pricing review when you have a dodgy structure. lol

People like you who come on here and are so cock sure of themselves are damn annoying.

YOu have to find comparable transactions, so you have to do inddustry analysis on the comparables and the risks faced by the compared companeis.

Not only that if you have 2 inter related companies is seeing how you split up the profits between them it is a very common practice to use risk analysis to do this, To see which company is bearing the most risk, therefore should recieve most of the profits.

EG you got one company growing a plantation of some some rare nuts that need the right conditions to grow, then selling the products to a related distributor in another country. WHo do you think should be getting the greater profit here? Its the compan taking on the most risk is most reasonable. So that is important in determining the selling price.

I really dont wanna get in a fight here with anyone, but please mate dont give people the wrong picture here.

 

[katie tully]

I know zero about any of this, but my boyfriends brother did a BCom and was working as an accountant in Canberra for a while. He ended up doing his CPA, if I remember correctly it took him ages and ages (lots of exams) and what not, but when he finished he ended up getting a $30,000 pay rise.

I'm not entirely sure what he was doing before the CPA, he was still doing some sort of tax accountancy job, but after he did the CPA he just got a lot more money.

I know somebody mentioned it earlier, but what about an MBA? I'm not sure whether you're interested in ladder climbing or whether you're content to stay out of managerial roles ....

 

[Newbie]

People like you who come on here and are so cock sure of themselves are damn annoying.

YOu have to find comparable transactions, so you have to do inddustry analysis on the comparables and the risks faced by the compared companeis.

Not only that if you have 2 inter related companies is seeing how you split up the profits between them it is a very common practice to use risk analysis to do this, To see which company is bearing the most risk, therefore should recieve most of the profits.

EG you got one company growing a plantation of some some rare nuts that need the right conditions to grow, then selling the products to a related distributor in another country. WHo do you think should be getting the greater profit here? Its the compan taking on the most risk is most reasonable. So that is important in determining the selling price.

I really dont wanna get in a fight here with anyone, but please mate dont give people the wrong picture here.

first of all you are the guy thats telling people they are "green behind the ears" when they are trying to help you

and your post just now shows that:

1. you dont know what risk analysis is.

you are looking at the risk levels of each company and then splitting profits. In no way are you actually working out the likelihood and effects of the risk discussed. this is because transfer pricing is tax based, its not your role to create financial scenarios. you are already given the numbers and have to make them fit into a tax effective structure, not working out what the numbers are.

2. you dont know what job you signed onto.

transfer pricing isn't about "comparable transactions", its about precedent structures. the fundamental difference is you are not in finance, you work with the tax acts. which goes to back to what pete_mate was saying: why are you doing a CFA in a tax job

 

[pete_mate]

Ok, i will confess. I don't like tax so i don't care to know anything about it.

I thought it was just doing people's tax returns but on a larger scale for companies.

Why don't you ask your employers what to do?

 

[MasterPUA]

Anyway I saw how the investments and trading and what not world works and I didnt like it and wanted to get more into an accounting related role

Just wondering what you found more attractive about an accounting related role versus the other roles mentioned?

 

[khosanman]

Look Newbie, you are wrong again. I dont know if you work at a big 4 or not, maybe go and ask someone there in transfer pricing because you are giving people the wrong idea of what happens here, and be big enouhg to admit it.

Transfer pricing is not tax based at all really, they even told me this at deloitte, and said it sits under the international tax banner, but its not really like any tax work. It is not a science it is an art, it is about coming up with logical reasons and defences as to what and why the prices for the contribution should be.

And why then do most of the big 4s encourage all their transfer pricing staff to do CFA?? Must be areason there?

And what are you talking about structuring, the company already has a structure in place, that may be planned and worked out between the transfer pricing team and the international tax team, but once that is done the prices need to be set and defended.

All this setting and defending of prices is done with COMPARABLE TRANSACTIONS. This is a very important main part of the work of transfer pricing. So its about finding best fit comparables and then tweaking them depending on the circumstances. IE, maybe in the comparable the company that is selling is taking on a lot more risk, so this needs to be analysed then taken into account when setting the price. Make sense??

THere is also a fair bit of valuation done, most frequently with intangible transfer within companies and in M&A transactions.


Now tell me where did you learn about what transfer pricing is?

Now Im not saying its a finance job, because i never did i dont think, and i agree its not, but it is quite different to what you are having people believe.

first of all you are the guy thats telling people they are "green behind the ears" when they are trying to help you

and your post just now shows that:

1. you dont know what risk analysis is.

you are looking at the risk levels of each company and then splitting profits. In no way are you actually working out the likelihood and effects of the risk discussed. this is because transfer pricing is tax based, its not your role to create financial scenarios. you are already given the numbers and have to make them fit into a tax effective structure, not working out what the numbers are.

2. you dont know what job you signed onto.

transfer pricing isn't about "comparable transactions", its about precedent structures. the fundamental difference is you are not in finance, you work with the tax acts. which goes to back to what pete_mate was saying: why are you doing a CFA in a tax job

 

[3li]

just a thought

guys why the fk wuld u work in a big 4 and do transfer pricing or consulting?


wen u can do m/a corpfin and capital raising at a bulge bracket?

it makes no sense why ppl go to all this trouble!

transfer pricing to me seems like a lil bit of valuation and modelling but accounting related

i think its more interesting to work in investment banking

 

[khosanman]

Are you taking the p*ss mate?

I hope so becaue if not...

Not everyone can be an investment banker. I mean I agree with you it would be more interesting. Id prefer to do it, but I face the facts that there is almost 0 chance of me getting a job in it based on my education/exp background.

Also other jobs are a lot more stable, I mean look at the markets now, plenty of investment bankers have been left jobless with families to feed and big fat mortgages to pay

 

[ifsonotso_100]

^ once u get ur cfa im sure lots of doors will open, also just another point, does working in transfer pricing actually count as part of the 4 years work experience to get ur charter?

 

[khosanman]

^ once u get ur cfa im sure lots of doors will open, also just another point, does working in transfer pricing actually count as part of the 4 years work experience to get ur charter?

Very good question if it counts ifsonotso. I really dont know, as i said im working over here in scandinavia, where you cant do the CA. I would suspect it is more likely it does, but there is the slight possibility it doesnt. If you are interested maybe just try and find the number of someone who works in it at a big 4, and ask them, maybe a good way to do a bit of networking and get chatting to someone in there

 

[3li]

Are you taking the p*ss mate?

I hope so becaue if not...

Not everyone can be an investment banker. I mean I agree with you it would be more interesting. Id prefer to do it, but I face the facts that there is almost 0 chance of me getting a job in it based on my education/exp background.

Also other jobs are a lot more stable, I mean look at the markets now, plenty of investment bankers have been left jobless with families to feed and big fat mortgages to pay

face the facts?
wat degree did u do?
u did back office at gsjbw so wat its not that bad

ive got heaps of banking frends from all sorts of degrees

but not crap like arts or fkn medicine

ppl come froma ll sorts of backgrounds, e.g. commlaw, commeco commeng commlib commsci etc.

the move from backoffice to front office isq uite easy u just have to play it right

 

[MasterPUA]

the move from backoffice to front office isq uite easy u just have to play it right

Not if I have my way. I like to propagate the saying "Once back office, always back office" :rofl:

 

[velox]

face the facts?
wat degree did u do?
u did back office at gsjbw so wat its not that bad

ive got heaps of banking frends from all sorts of degrees

but not crap like arts or fkn medicine

ppl come froma ll sorts of backgrounds, e.g. commlaw, commeco commeng commlib commsci etc.

the move from backoffice to front office isq uite easy u just have to play it right

Actually head of Lehman in Aus is a dr, and one of the execs is a vet. Not sure how current that is, but it was true at one stage.

Banking does not need specific skills, it has a generic skill set but needs dedicated and intelligent people.