Co-op vs Cadetship (2 Viewers)

[miss-smexy]

I'm sort of unsure about which one of these would be better for me.

There is one firm which is offering cadetships. The thing is, they will tell you if you are successful much earlier than any other firms or universities (i.e. UTS and UNSW) will inform you. They give a deadline of a few days to accept or decline a position with them - and this deadline is even BEFORE the other firms/unis offer interviews.

Assuming that, if I were to be successful through the interview stage and if I was offered a place at this particular accounting firm, then I'd be in a dilemma because either I'd have to accept the position in that particular firm - leaving me no other options later OR I'd have to reject the position and this would not guarantee an offer or successful interviews from other firms or universities.

I guess I'm asking now, because I don't want to leave this decision till the last minute where I only have a few days to make up my mind, if I were to be in such a situation. And also because it would be great to get as much advice as possible!

 

[Newbie]

i thought all the firms have a common agreement to offer at roughly the same time
otherwise recruiters will start pitching to year 7s

 

[miss-smexy]

i thought all the firms have a common agreement to offer at roughly the same time
otherwise recruiters will start pitching to year 7s

Well there's this one particular firm that doesn't do that. They have interviews on the day that all the application forms for the other firms are due

 

[Vagabond]

I had this enormous dilemma post-all of the offers.

While I'd say don't count your chickens until they hatch, I can understand where you're coming from.

Co-ops are def. a much easier lifestyle, however co-ops will not even touch the depth of work that a cadet will.

This is the experience trade-off you come to:
Co-ops: More diverse (within the same field of course). (This is particularly so with the UNSW co-op that offers three work placements.)
Cadets: More depth within the same company. (within the same company, co-op student < cadet )

A cadet will either like their company (and choose to stay) or dislike it (and choose to leave).

If the former: They're accelerated within the company because they got their foot in the door. They have a job offer guaranteed so to an extent, uni doesn't matter anymore.

If the latter: After 2 years, they've gotten a taste of what the industry/company is *really* like. They find out if the work (or even, a commerce degree) is for them.

I personally have a friend who started a cadetship last year only to quit in 2 weeks and transfer over to a science degree. A more common scenario is that the cadet decides they don't like accounting and pursues a different industry alltogether with 2 years of full-time uni to go, with already 2 years full-time experience under their belt. (Indirect flexibility?)

Good luck with your choice.

 

[Newbie]

Well there's this one particular firm that doesn't do that. They have interviews on the day that all the application forms for the other firms are due

well
consider it from another perspective

you sign with them
and then something better comes along
you dump them for the upgrade

win win for you

 

[Vagabond]

I thought generally all CA firms had to recruit under the CA guidelines... A HR manager told me that under the program, they're each allocated certain days that they're *allowed* to interview people and that the offer deadline all have to coincide.

The only exceptions to this rule that I saw last year were a couple of small-tier firms?

 

[miss-smexy]

I thought generally all CA firms had to recruit under the CA guidelines... A HR manager told me that under the program, they're each allocated certain days that they're *allowed* to interview people and that the offer deadline all have to coincide.

The only exceptions to this rule that I saw last year were a couple of small-tier firms?

MS is a mid tier firm, but it doesn't coincide with all the other deadlines. I will try to search up the internet for CA guidelines though and see what it says about this.

well
consider it from another perspective

you sign with them
and then something better comes along
you dump them for the upgrade

win win for you

Then doesn't that mean that you'll be put onto their 'blacklist' and if later you ever want employment with them, they probably wouldn't want to employ you?

 

[Newbie]

who cares if a midtier blacklists you
its their fault for not giving you the time to consider other offers

 

[seremify007]

who cares if a midtier blacklists you
its their fault for not giving you the time to consider other offers

Why burn bridges?

But on a more important note IMO, mid-tier doesn't necessarily mean inferior. Some people thrive under the much closer-knit well-rounded-client-service environment than in a Big4 firm. Remember, it isn't so much a competition for you to try to get into the firm with the highest revenue, but rather, it's a mutually beneficial exercise where you want to get a job where you're happy (and the criteria for this will vary person to person; but salary shouldn't be the only factor) and the employers want to get a good employee who's willing to work hard, learn the ropes, and contribute.

Whilst alot of people say that those cadetship evenings are pointless and whatnot, I highly suggest you go there, meet the people, see what they're like and how they interact, and then based on that see where you want to apply. The coop people tend to put up a showbooth too (at least UTS does from my memory) so you can find out what they have to say.

I know some people who had their priorities as Big 4 cadetship > Coop > Mid-tier Cadetship. That's just stupid to bluntly categorise things like that until you really know what you want.

To me the main catch with a cadetship is that whilst you can move around with the firm and change divisions/business units, you really are in the one firm (assuming it's offered by a professional services firm) and you don't get that much exposure to commercial environments. That being said, I know some cadets who during their 3rd/4th year (ie. where they go back to full time uni) were allowed to do a client secondment to large companies from within their division to both improve their understanding of the client and try something new (whilst being paid). Similarly I know of coops who were permitted to stay on beyond their industrial training placement as a part time employee whilst they go back to uni.

Everything comes down to negotiation and I'm sure you'll find that whilst both cadetships and coops have their downsides, it's not always as set in stone as one might expect.

So really, pick the one which appeals to you more.

 

[Newbie]

i prefer to call it hedging

 

[jared_88]

Serimfy and Vagabond make very good points!

Now I chose a cadetship but I will try and be objective.

Cadetships:
*You actually move up in the firm whereas with the co-ops and B-acc'ers you pretty much from what I hear have the same postion as a vacc'er where you only do a limited amount of work experience there and if they really like you, they will offer you a grad position (which means when you graduate you pretty much start off on the same level as any other normal grad (maybe with a slight advantage))... but put it this way you will pretty much be doing the work that an 18 year old cadet will be doing already. Whereas with cadetships some of them are seniors or intermediates by the time they graduate (depending on how good they are) (which means you'll be delegating work to grads).
*However the trade-off with this is uni is going to take longer unless you try and squeeze subjects in all over the place ie summer, overloading etc. With Big 4 firms you generally do the 2+2 program where you work for two years and get two years to do full time uni (meaning you'll finish your degree in 4 years), whereas mid-tier you generally get a sandwhich program where you get offered two 6 month breaks to do full time uni (meaning you'll finsih your degree anywhere between 4-6 years depending on whether you decide to take your 6 month breaks and whether you overload and do summer subjects).
*Salaries when you first start are nothing to call home about (but what do you expect to get paid when you are an 18 year old kid with no tertiary education and no experience) but at least you are getting paid full time which and this will increase along the way.
*The whole thing of not getting a broad amount of experience depends on the company you are in. With Big 4 I think this is exemplified as from the outset you are pigeon-holed in what type of accounting you do e.g. audit and even what industry group you work in e.g. telecommunications. I think this is pretty ridiculous if you ask me (hence why I chose a mid-tier firm) but some people like it. Further on this all but one mid-tier firm (which is the one I am working for) put you straight away in either business services or audit but then you can move around within the company if you like. With my firm you start in both business services and audit (hence why they were my first preference and I chose them) so you get to chose which division you like later after you see what you like. However just because you start in one area doesn't mean you your stuck there I know cadets in my firm who are working in the financial planning division or even now have jobs in financial services with one of our audit clients that they worked on every year.

Co-ops:
*You get a much better lifestyle (you get to live the uni life alot more).
*You get experience in more companies to determine which you like.
*As mentioned above you generally finish your degree quicker.
*I'm not exactly sure how the pay of this system works maybe someone else can clarify this but I know it's not as much as cadetship (I'm pretty sure you get a small amount of pay but they cover your HECS bill (which cadetships don't).

Sorry if I have focused on cadetships alot but thats what I'm doing so thats what I know. Someone else can probably share alot more about the co-op programs.

My advice is to go to the cadetship night is very helpful (even if all you get out of it is the booklet with all the different companies and how to apply)

Good luck with deciding what to do!

 

[bukwow]

from what i know in the cadetship evening, the unsw and uts co-ops are there as well, and there was literally alot of them. the took up so much room =S

 

[turtleface]

I fail to understand the obsession with doing these type of things. Isn't it enough to just relax and do a Uni degree, and do vacation work instead?

Its not like you get ahead by doing these programs

 

[seremify007]

I fail to understand the obsession with doing these type of things. Isn't it enough to just relax and do a Uni degree, and do vacation work instead?

Its not like you get ahead by doing these programs

That's definitely up for debate.

You come back with alot more knowledge than a normal grad and are promoted faster (at least in Big4, you'll return at the highest level of grad- just before senior; but will usually be senioring jobs anyhow), and throughout uni you gain valuable work experience in a relevant field rather than just a typical part time job. Besides, it doesn't hurt to try something out before you graduate so you can tell sooner rather than later if you're doing something you want to do.

On a slightly more cynical view, it's not as competitive at coop/cadetship level compared to grad intakes.

 

[La Divina]

Apart from the scholarship money, do co-ops get paid for the work experience they do?

 

[mr_shittles]

Apart from the scholarship money, do co-ops get paid for the work experience they do?

Nope.

 

[seremify007]

I think I will say something which needs to be said for those who are too lazy to read the rest of the thread;

Coop and cadetships are both excellent programs, and neither one is better than other; but rather, depending on the type of person you are, your current career objectives and goals and the type of environment you work best in, one program may be more suitable than the other.

Simple isn't it? I know it makes me sound like a fence sitter but the reality is that's the case because not everyone wants to stick to one firm and always be the external-contractor; but then not everyone wants to go around trying new things all the time but never really settling in.

But to answer some of the questions I was asked about both cadetships and coops on ICAA evening;

1. Yes a cadetship requires you to work full time, and industrial training for a coop is a Monday-Friday job. Yes that pretty much means 9-5 except where you have to study or take leave.

2. Yes you have to go to university.

3. Yes it does matter what you write on your cover letter so don't leave it blank.

4. Whilst it isn't compulsory to attend the information nights/sessions by various firms and unis, it doesn't hurt to learn more about what it is that you're applying for and to meet people so you can see where you feel most comfortable at.

(this isn't from the night but...)

Unless I know you, please do NOT start adding me on msn, reading/commenting my blog, trying to find me on facebook, looking me up in the telephone directory, etc.... if all you want to do is talk about cadetships and the applications.

 

[mr_shittles]

Unless I know you, please do NOT start adding me on msn, reading/commenting my blog, trying to find me on facebook, looking me up in the telephone directory, etc.... if all you want to do is talk about cadetships and the applications.

This man is a celebrity.

Please do not contact him, or speak to him unless you see him out on the PwC red carpet, in which case he might let you have your picture taken!

 

[seremify007]

LOL it's kindof annoying... and stalkerish!

Seriously though if there is a rather basic/generic question, either post it in one of the many cadetship threads or if you must, PM me on BoS.

 

[Newbie]

seremify is the lead dancer, im the awkward one at the back.
all first year grads have to do it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64MavToFkP4