"Communism is the greatest evil unleashed on humanity" (2 Viewers)

[Zeitgeist308]

Communism = Left wing politics

No.

What was even the point of this post?

 

[Matt1120]

Socialism is only a transitional step towards what Marx called "Pure Communism" which can be considered a stateless society. Marx believed that this transition would occur after the socialist revolution. Unfortunately the middle class who use the working class in a revolution retain their power and keep a socialist state. (sorry for the history lesson i'm getting to the point!!)

I agree with Sam04u, the rationality of the human is not the arguement. The instincts of the human are. Greed seems to be a common trait of many of the early bolsheviks as they struggled for power. Look at Stalin and his power struggle (the murder of Trotsky) that can be nothing apart from greed.

So communism I believe is not a great evil, who doesnt want equality, the steps taken to achieve communism however aren't good. They seem to highlight human triats such as greed far worse than the capitalist alternative.

Sorry for the essay I been doing marxist philosophy for Extension History.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

As such, it is the abolition of all classes, the abolition of the state and the abolition of the alienating and exploitative nature of labour.

Loal labour theory of value.

Enjoy the digital economy . I work and I think it's pretty great.

 

[jb_nc]

communism is well stupid and anyone who is a fully fledged communist use to reevaluate their use as a human being

n.b. it's zero

 

[Silver Persian]

Loal labour theory of value.

Enjoy the digital economy . I work and I think it's pretty great.

That's because you're duped by the capitalist mass media!

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

communism is well stupid and anyone who is a fully fledged communist use to reevaluate their use as a human being

n.b. it's zero

um you obviously spend your entire day watching faux news and sucking the cock of capitalism and you also shall be first against the wall

 

[Zeitgeist308]

Loal labour theory of value.

Sorry, but what does the LTV have to do with alienation, class or the state?

Socialism is only a transitional step towards what Marx called "Pure Communism" which can be considered a stateless society.

For someone who is studying "Marxist Philosophy" I expected better (no offense).

1. Marx never used the term "Socialism" to indicate the period of transition between the capitalist and communist modes of production. Lenin was the first to use this terminology. He used terms such as "The period of transition" or "The lower-phase of communist society". Marx instead used the term socialism and communism interchangeably.

2. Marx never used the term "pure communism". It is a meaningless phrase.

Unfortunately the middle class who use the working class in a revolution retain their power and keep a socialist state.

Sorry but this just isn't true. The reality of the situation was far more complicated than that and I do not want to get into a thorough analysis of the matter here.

I agree with Sam04u, the rationality of the human is not the arguement. The instincts of the human are. Greed seems to be a common trait of many of the early bolsheviks as they struggled for power. Look at Stalin and his power struggle (the murder of Trotsky) that can be nothing apart from greed.

"Greed" has nothing to do with the failure of the socialist movement hitherto. Both yourself and every poster in this thread so far seems to be taken in by this notion for no apparent reason.

So communism I believe is not a great evil, who doesnt want equality, the steps taken to achieve communism however aren't good. They seem to highlight human triats such as greed far worse than the capitalist alternative.

Communism is not some wishy-washy utopia where "everyone is equal". Socialism's material basis is the class struggle and not some idealistic notion of equality.

communism is well stupid and anyone who is a fully fledged communist use to reevaluate their use as a human being

Oh my, I really I am useless human being. Thank you so for convincing me on the wrongness of my politics.

Either make an argument or shut up.

 

[Matt1120]

1. Marx never used the term "Socialism" to indicate the period of transition between the capitalist and communist modes of production. Lenin was the first to use this terminology. He used terms such as "The period of transition" or "The lower-phase of communist society". Marx instead used the term socialism and communism interchangeably.

2. Marx never used the term "pure communism". It is a meaningless phrase.

3."Greed" has nothing to do with the failure of the socialist movement hitherto. Both yourself and every poster in this thread so far seems to be taken in by this notion for no apparent reason.


4. Communism is not some wishy-washy utopia where "everyone is equal". Socialism's material basis is the class struggle and not some idealistic notion of equality.

[/quote]

First of all thankyou for correcting me, MArx did not start that term without looking it up it could be a term from either Lenin or Mao, its too late in the evening for me to check, you seem smart enough to find it yourself though.
Also thx for correcting me on the lenin and socialism thing.

Regardless of who did invent it, the principle is still the same, the ruling body which takes control after the revolution is only used until the state can function without it, at this point the ruling body (ideally members of the proleteriat[excuse the spelling]) would give up their powers and at this point communism is achieved. Unfortunately GREED does play a major part in the failure of this transition. Who in their right mind would give up somplete power for some "wishy-washy utopia" hmm?

Also i'm well aware that communism ain't a Utopia, if it was i'm sure the many socialist states in the world would have made it to that unny little thing called Communism. I could picture there being a lot of Social restrictions placed on individuals in communism.

But seeing We dont live in that society and we all have a right to freedom of expression dont ever tell me to shut up when i'm presenting my arguement, forums are designed for the presentation of Ideas etc. Not for little yr 11's to try and use big words against everyone else.

Now that i've had my weekly rant, Nite all

 

[withoutaface]

Sorry, but what does the LTV have to do with alienation, class or the state?

LTV is used to justify Marx's assertions that the proletariat¹ are being exploited² by their bourgeious³ masters, and from there we justify the creation of a government⁴ the size of an xbox to stop this from occurring.

Footnotes for communists who didn't get it
¹ Class
² Alienation
³ More class
⁴ State

It's the cornerstone of his political philosophy you fucking paint huffing degenerate.

EDIT: Further I'd dispute greed being what's fucked the communist countries up. It's that they have an idea about how people should act, and you can't make them act that way without using an iron fist. By the time you've got dissent under control you're too busy killing people to remember what the fuck it was you were trying to achieve in the first place and then, John, you are the demons.

 

[sam04u]

LTV is used to justify Marx's assertions that the proletariat¹ are being exploited² by their bourgeious³ masters, and from there we justify the creation of a government⁴ the size of an xbox to stop this from occurring.

Footnotes for communists who didn't get it
¹ Class
² Alienation
³ More class
⁴ State

It's the cornerstone of his political philosophy you fucking paint huffing degenerate.

EDIT: Further I'd dispute greed being what's fucked the communist countries up. It's that they have an idea about how people should act, and you can't make them act that way without using an iron fist. By the time you've got dissent under control you're too busy killing people to remember what the fuck it was you were trying to achieve in the first place and then, John, you are the demons.

/thread

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

I think the greatest thing is, thankfully, we'll never go back towards a socialist/communist state any time in any of our lifetimes. Also, if any of you are hankering hell of bad to go live in a Communist/Trotskyist state, go chill out in Cuba, they'd love to have you!

EDIT: It doesn't work and it'd never work a) because it's a sickening evil that exists to limit self-determination and personal freedoms
and
b) because most of the people (around 95%) are mass-media swilling peon proles who just go with the flow but will get uppity when they have to call the Government 20 times a day to get an AM radio

But NO COMMUNISM IS A GREAT IDEA AM RADIOS FOR ALL I LOVE BIG BROTHER. Fuck off. Less Government, not more Government.

 

[jb_nc]

wallE came out today!

yay!

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

Degenerate Capitalism lead to the PLANET being destroyed

 

[Boxes]

wallE came out today!

yay!

lol. please don't tell me you're going to watch that?

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

I'm going to go see wallE, it's supposed to be the spiritual successor to Silent Running, sollllddd
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/forgotten_classic_silent_runni.html

 

[HNAKXR]

government does not work, neither does anarchism.
:-(

 

[melanieeeee.]

equality for all. everyone is invited.

 

[melanieeeee.]

proof that communism works. just take a look at the smurfs. everyone loves the smurfs.

smurf village, where everyone shares everything, wears similar utilitarian clothing, battles gargamel and his turn-smurfs-to-gold get rich quick schemes and obeys the dictates of a bearded, red hat-wearing, benevolent authority figure. quoth comrade papa: “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”

 

[Zeitgeist308]

Matt, I think you have some major misunderstandings about Marxism I feel the need to clear up.

the ruling body which takes control after the revolution

There can be no "ruling body which takes control after the revolution". Maybe you missed the first line of the General Rules of the International Workingmen's Association: "the emancipation of the working classes must be conquered by the working classes themselves". This line was also reproduced by Marx in The Critique of the Gotha Programme: "The emancipation of the working class must be the act of the workers themselves".

[the "ruling body"]is only used until the state can function without it, at this point the ruling body [...] would give up their powers and at this point communism is achieved.

Hear you are asserting that "socialism" is a period where a "ruling body" controls the state and "communism" is where the state is independent of the "ruling body". This of course could not be further from the truth.

Communism is stateless because it is classless (Remembering of course that by the state we mean those institutions of political power by which one class is able to mediate the class struggle in it's own favour)

Unfortunately GREED does play a major part in the failure of this transition. Who in their right mind would give up somplete power for some "wishy-washy utopia" hmm?

Your exactly right actually. Marxists recognise that the ruling class (which within the capitalist mode of production is the bourgeoisie) will not give up political supremacy since it is not in their interest as a class. Where you are in correct is in the assumption that in the "period of transition" a "class" will hold "complete power". If this is the case then you do not have "socialism" or a society in "transition".

Also i'm well aware that communism ain't a Utopia, if it was i'm sure the many socialist states in the world would have made it to that unny little thing called Communism.

How does your conclusion follow logically from your premise? The fact that communism is not a utopia, the product of some great mind to which humanity need only direct itself has nothing to do with the failure of the so-called "socialist states" (they were/are in reality state capitalist, read the series by Aufheben entitled "What was the USSR" Part I, II, III, IV for more info.)

I could picture there being a lot of Social restrictions placed on individuals in communism.

Well I'm affraid your defintion of communism has nothing to do with that used by Marx or myself. "In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." - Marx, The Manifesto of the Communist Party

But seeing We dont live in that society and we all have a right to freedom of expression dont ever tell me to shut up when i'm presenting my arguement, forums are designed for the presentation of Ideas etc. Not for little yr 11's to try and use big words against everyone else.

Sorry if I was too critical, but please don't resort to whineing. All I'm trying to so is set the story straight for some posters on hear you want rant about the "evils of communism" to feel important.

 

[Zeitgeist308]

LTV is used to justify Marx's assertions that the proletariat¹ are being exploited² by their bourgeious³ masters, and from there we justify the creation of a government⁴ the size of an xbox to stop this from occurring.

1. Sorry buddy but the LTV is not a justification of workers revolution. You can quite easily argue the case for socialism solely on the basis of social and historical necessity. The class struggle stands independent of value theory.

2. Socialism has nothing to do with bureaucracy or state control of the economy. But hey your misunderstanding is predictable for someone who does not know what they are talking about.

¹ Class
² Alienation
³ More class
⁴ State

Sorry once again buddy, but it appears that your footnotes are broken. Not only do 1 and 3 not explain anything, but 2 wrongly asserts that alienation and exploitation are the same and 4 that the government is the state.

*whispers* Psst, withoutaface, your ignorance is showing...

It's the cornerstone of his political philosophy you fucking paint huffing degenerate.

Well actually no it's not considering Marx's origins where in Philosophy and that his theories of workers revolution and the class struggle where based on his theory of historical materialism and not his economic theories which dominated the latter part of his lifetime.

EDIT: Further I'd dispute greed being what's fucked the communist countries up. It's that they have an idea about how people should act, and you can't make them act that way without using an iron fist. By the time you've got dissent under control you're too busy killing people to remember what the fuck it was you were trying to achieve in the first place and then, John, you are the demons.

I'm not for a second going to defend the so-called "communist/socialist states" of the 20th Century, but what I will say is that you a way off base with this one. (See, I can make blind assertions too if I want EDIT: This isn't directed at you)