Competing Narratives (1 Viewer)

[Caratacus]

Of interest to Historiographers might be the situation at Wikipedia, which I briefly discuss (with links) in my Domus Carataci blog post "Information wars", where I have a historiography section. The topic in this case relates to attempts by US politicians to impose their own version on entries in the justly popular Wikipedia. It's worth following the links in the article at Domus to see how the Wikipedia crew have handled this. The general historiographical topic would be that of "Competing Narratives".

 

[fleepbasding]

Thats a very interesting idea for a histext project. Have you checked it with your teacher?

 

[xeuyrawp]

Of interest to Historiographers might be the situation at Wikipedia, which I briefly discuss (with links) in my Domus Carataci blog post "Information wars", where I have a historiography section. The topic in this case relates to attempts by US politicians to impose their own version on entries in the justly popular Wikipedia. It's worth following the links in the article at Domus to see how the Wikipedia crew have handled this. The general historiographical topic would be that of "Competing Narratives".

Wow, that's awesome. Thanks for the link!

Thats a very interesting idea for a histext project. Have you checked it with your teacher?

He didn't say he was doing it:S

 

[Caratacus]

No, I'm not doing it. I'm a teacher. But yes, it is a topic with multiple resonances for HistExt students - it would make a great starting point for a research project.

 

[pungemo]

In and of itself it may not make for a good topic. But when taken in a broader context it would definately be a topic worth considering.

 

[xeuyrawp]

In and of itself it may not make for a good topic. But when taken in a broader context it would definately be a topic worth considering.

What?

The topic itself is autonomous and certainly self-sustaining. You could write simply about that one event and have oodles of content.

The 'broader context' (gags at generic term), I assume you mean the State wielding power to affect knowledge(?), would be far too big to approach. At the very most, you could have something along the lines of the American State's influence over public knowledge since Vietnam. See, I'd think that'd even be too big as you're covering the numerous Middle Eatern conflicts, Watergate, and all of those late '90s/early '00s business collapses.

No, it'd make an excellent topic.

 

[pungemo]

I would like to see you write a 30 page document, examining the historiography of the topic, solely about US officials attempting to influence wikipedia. I am sure you could fabricate enough information to do so, but I hardly think it would be given a great mark. What sources would you use besides the one wikipedia article? There are minimal statements made by a number of congressmen and that would be the extent of the historiography. You could, if you were so inclined, attempt to personally contact the persons involved but this would be an inordinate amount of effort and would most likely not yield the results of a topic on which more has been written and said. You may not have to go as far back as Vietnam or as broad as general control of public opinion. You could examine the American State's use of the internet to further its political and social aims.

 

[Caratacus]

I did say "starting point for a research project".... You could take it in all sorts of directions, and relate its particulars to the general issues of historiography. You wouldn't need to write 30 pages, though - just 2500 words plus 300 word synopsis and 600 annotated biblio. My experience has been that students usually need to narrow their initial topic considerably, and even then struggle to fit their research into the 2500 word limit. But I'm not advocating that anyone focus entirely on the Wikipedia situation here: you'd obviously want to relate it to other "competing narratives" and "selection and deployment of evidence" issues.

Here's a little list of (somewhat overlapping) Historiographical Issues that I have found useful for the case study and research project. I originally compiled this list as an indication of the type of topic which might form the focus of HSC Question 1 (Historiography)

Context of historians
1. Personal – political, cultural, preoccupations
2. Public – audience, preoccupations of an age; literary norms, standards and styles

Focus
1. of an Age
2. of a particular work or author

Judgments
passed by historians on their material, including on characters and issues

Bias
1. Of evidence
2. of historian
3. of an age or culture

Narrative
1. Style – plain, literary, emotive, polemic, propagandistic, moralistic, sententious, dramatic, popular, scholarly or academic
2. Issues of structure – thematic, chronological, dramatic; articles, chapters, volumes
3. Effect of narrative on content eg selection of evidence, interpretation, emphases, etc.

Medium
1. Prose – articles, essays, books – issues of selection, treatment
2. Films, videos, television programs – visual evidence, simplification, treatment of textual material,
3. Multimedia – CDs, possibilities of innovative structures and presentations
4. Speeches – a talk on historical material
5. Re-enactments
6. Historical fiction – in book, film, television
7. Effect of medium on content

Purposes of History
1. Objective or "scientific" knowledge
2. History as propaganda or for "social conditioning" - as a support for nationalism, patriotism, colonialism, warfare and other political agendas
3. History as entertainment
4. History as literary or artistic creation

Sources of Evidence
1. Creation
2. Survival
3. Selection
4. Interpretation
5. Testing, reliability
6. Bias of sources
7. Incorporation into narrative
8. Effect of new technologies on use of evidence

 

[fleepbasding]

It is the perfect original and interesting histext project. Stop criticizing and start plagiarizing.

 

[xeuyrawp]

I would like to see you write a 30 page document blah blah blah

I'm sorry. When did we meet?

I must have forgotten you, because how can you know what someone can and cannot do for an essay when you don't know jack shit about them? Jumping to conclusions much?

And yes, I could do it. I wrote a longer essay last year with far more research just on one 18th Dynasty funerary cone. Trust me, there's a lot less to look at about that then the MW question. Even in only first year of uni, your level of research is huge when compared to school. You wouldn't understand the huge differentiation between uni and school if you haven't even graduated yet. Maybe you should be more careful of your word choice if you suggest that I couldn't do something... Even then, I know a lot of HSCers who would be capable of the same.

My experience has been that students usually need to narrow their initial topic considerably, and even then struggle to fit their research into the 2500 word limit.

Exactly. Generally speaking, the more specific a question is, the more specific/in-depth evidence one is allowed to look at. Showing off tight research is never a bad thing.

2. Films, videos, television programs – visual evidence, simplification, treatment of textual material,

I wrote a nice 3000 word essay on history and film. It could have been more general, but this was actually my final question:

‘Is Holocaust comedy a bad joke? Discuss this in relation to to the specific comedies The Great Dictator [1940] and La Vita è bella [1997],[FONT=&quot][/FONT] and then analyse the importance and broader role of film in the relationships between the Holocaust, historical ethics, and memory.’

I'd love to see a MW on something similar... I generally like specific and precise essays. *shrugs*

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[pungemo]

There is alot of extremely selective quoting in that post PwarYuex. Let's start from the top. Maybe if you had actually read what I said you would have noticed that I said that you probably could fabricate enough information to do so. Also did you perhaps examine the historiography of said funeral cone? How many historians wrote lengthy articles on the topic? Very few I would imagine.

Also you neglected to mention the first thing that Caratacus said was that it was a good starting point, not necessarily the entire topic. Also the word limit varies to extremes in the Extension History course. It is not marked by the Board of Studies and is all set internally. At our school I believe the word limit is upwards of 8000. Having looked at previous major works (which were indeed 30 page documents) I am quite sure that writing solely about US state intervention in Wikipedia would not earn high marks.

 

[Caratacus]

Also the word limit varies to extremes in the Extension History course. It is not marked by the Board of Studies and is all set internally. At our school I believe the word limit is upwards of 8000. Having looked at previous major works (which were indeed 30 page documents)....

Then your school is in serious breach of the syllabus, which sets a mandatory limit of 2500 words for the Independent Research Project, as well as other very specific requirements. Here's the link - you and every HSC student should read these documents very carefully. Information about the presentation and certification of the project is contained in the syllabus, pages 23 – 28, and in the support document, pages 19 – 27.

Syllabus - http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/syllabus_hsc/pdf_doc/historyext_syl.doc

Support document - http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/syllabus_hsc/pdf_doc/history_ext_sup.doc

Here's the relevant section:

The Essay
The essay should contain:
• synopsis
– this will be a brief description (300 words) on the development of the precise question that provides the focus of the essay; the ways the essay addresses
the precise question; the content used in the essay and why it was included.
• essay
– the essay is an argument in response to a precise question with evidence in support, the sources of which are acknowledged. It will be in written form and may be accompanied by appropriate graphic texts only as appendices (apart from short explanatory captions). The essay must not exceed 2,500 words.
The essay should contain material from a range of perspectives, including the student’s own views. A consistent system of referencing should be used to acknowledge the use of sources.

The Bibliography
The bibliography should contain:
• a consistently formatted alphabetical list of all sources used within the project
• evaluation of three of these sources. The reviews should:
– be selected for the three most valuable sources used in the history project
– not exceed 600 words in total
– explain the strengths and weaknesses of each source, considering its usefulness and reliability and the reasons it was valuable to the project and
the central argument of the essay.

The Process Log
The process log should contain:
• description of procedures
• log of sequential development of the topic
• record of major decisions of the project
• review: cumulative self, peer and teacher evaluation of the project and record of interviews.

 

[xeuyrawp]

There is alot of extremely selective quoting in that post PwarYuex.

Yup. Why bother reading what you say when it's all bullshit?

Then your school is in serious breach of the syllabus,

Although some schools do drift outside the syllabus, I've never heard of one going that far out.

Edit: Then again, I think it'd be easier to just ignore pungemo.

 

[pungemo]

I fail to see the point of quoting a post that can be seen on the same screen, and by ignoring my 'bullshit' you end up spouting bullshit of your own.

 

[xeuyrawp]

I fail to see the point of quoting a post that can be seen on the same screen,

I'm sorry, there seems to be zero or no quoting there, pungemo.

And please, can you address what we've questioned?

I'm going to be ringing up Normo Boy's High School tomorrow to ask about the word limits and such. Just to clarify this point:

At our school I believe the word limit is upwards of 8000. Having looked at previous major works (which were indeed 30 page documents)

 

[Caratacus]

My guess is that Pungemo has seen someone's Process Log, which may well be 30+ pages (there being no set length) - and mistaken that for the essay component of the project. Good teachers will encourage students to make the Process Log as detailed and reflective as possible on historiographical issues pertaining to the projects inquiry question. I've seen Process Logs of a hundred pages or more. Thes can be of immense benefit for the students' engagement with historiographical issues.

 

[xeuyrawp]

My guess is that Pungemo has seen someone's Process Log, which may well be 30+ pages (there being no set length) - and mistaken that for the essay component of the project. Good teachers will encourage students to make the Process Log as detailed and reflective as possible on historiographical issues pertaining to the projects inquiry question. I've seen Process Logs of a hundred pages or more. Thes can be of immense benefit for the students' engagement with historiographical issues.

If so, they're setting out out formally - ie typing it out and such. I think it's better for a student to be able to just open it up at any time and write in it, and I don't think there's any benefit in typing it out after to make it all neat and tidy.

 

[pungemo]

If you feel like calling Normanhurst do so. Keep in mind I do not know the exact word limit, only that the past examples (yes, they were the actual assignments) were of the length I described. Oh, and pwaryuex, perhaps you could tell me what exactly you have questioned as there seemed to only be one question mark in your post, and that was attached to a crude remark.

 

[xeuyrawp]

If you feel like calling Normanhurst do so. Keep in mind I do not know the exact word limit, only that the past examples (yes, they were the actual assignments) were of the length I described.

Don't backtrack. That's for politicians.

Also, I forgot to ring the school - see what happens when you don't write a reminder?

 

[luscious-llama]

Here's a little list of (somewhat overlapping) Historiographical Issues that I have found useful for the case study and research project. I originally compiled this list as an indication of the type of topic which might form the focus of HSC Question 1 (Historiography)

Context of historians
1. Personal – political, cultural, preoccupations
2. Public – audience, preoccupations of an age; literary norms, standards and styles

Focus
1. of an Age
2. of a particular work or author

Judgments
passed by historians on their material, including on characters and issues

Bias
1. Of evidence
2. of historian
3. of an age or culture

Narrative
1. Style – plain, literary, emotive, polemic, propagandistic, moralistic, sententious, dramatic, popular, scholarly or academic
2. Issues of structure – thematic, chronological, dramatic; articles, chapters, volumes
3. Effect of narrative on content eg selection of evidence, interpretation, emphases, etc.

Medium
1. Prose – articles, essays, books – issues of selection, treatment
2. Films, videos, television programs – visual evidence, simplification, treatment of textual material,
3. Multimedia – CDs, possibilities of innovative structures and presentations
4. Speeches – a talk on historical material
5. Re-enactments
6. Historical fiction – in book, film, television
7. Effect of medium on content

Purposes of History
1. Objective or "scientific" knowledge
2. History as propaganda or for "social conditioning" - as a support for nationalism, patriotism, colonialism, warfare and other political agendas
3. History as entertainment
4. History as literary or artistic creation

Sources of Evidence
1. Creation
2. Survival
3. Selection
4. Interpretation
5. Testing, reliability
6. Bias of sources
7. Incorporation into narrative
8. Effect of new technologies on use of evidence

THANK YOU. This is excellent. Excellent.
From
A concerned history extension student who only realised today how to write the essays and get a decent mark:wave:

Oops I think I just ignored everything else in this forum.
Sorry