Degrees at 2 diff unis (1 Viewer)

[maka]

I understand that it may be terribly complicated and that there may be equivalent MQ degreee to complete but I was wondering if you would be able to do 1 degree at MQ and 1 at UTS.

Effectively, I was at UTS doing a Business degree majoring in HRM.For the B Business degree, I would only need to complete 3 subjects (as I spoke to UTS already) However, MQ only has the BHRM which would put me back 2 years. I have tried the BBA and it is definitely not in line with what I want to do.

In essence, I want to do the B Business at UTS and LLB at MQ. Is this possible? The major problem comes from the fact that MQ Law degrees are only available as double degrees.

Would doing 2 separate degrees in a combined form equate to a double degree in relation to the MQ guidelines.

My only other alternative could be doing the LLB by Distance after I complete my B Business.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Definitely a question you need to ask SES. Like you said, it would be easy if it was just two degrees at once (you arrange it through UAC, and let both unis know...), but you want to do LLB.

I highly doubt MQ will allow you to do an internal LLB by itself - which is effectively what you want to do. An external LLB would be pure death for finding a job *waits to be flamed*.

Wouldn't it be better to simply transfer to UTS BBus LLB? Or, you could just transfer to UTS, and then do grad law (with credit for previous study) at USyd, UNSW, or UTS.

Also, what about doing a BCom at MQ - would that give you more exemptions and credit for previous study? You've probably checked it out, but it sounds wrong that you'd only get a year's worth at MQ...

Anyway, it sounds tricky, so I'd give SES a call.

Sorry, no help at all.

(edited cos I can't spell)

 

[MaryJane]

Not that I can really help, but here is my .02 re: LLB. As Rob (Pwar) said, the only way to do a straight LLB is to be external. Its the same with most unis nowadays because, as Rob said, your job prospects are severely limited as an external LLB...*also waits to be flamed*... Unless you already work in the field as a paralegal or something. I'd recommend doing an LLB as a post-grad.

 

[maka]

I have 3 options

(1) Stay at MQ and do a BA/LLB instead
(2) Do B Bus (UTS) and LLB simultaenously at diff unis
(3) Do B Bus then seek grad entry to Law at UTS

I can get a DFEE place at UTS but would like to avoid it

(edit) I think MQ need a post grad on campus degree. I would think you can make it at least 3 years and not affect pre reqs overly. 3 subjects a semester.

UTS is the leader in flexiblity in this regard. An LLB straight or a JD.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Not that I can really help, but here is my .02 re: LLB. As Rob (Pwar) said, the only way to do a straight LLB is to be external. Its the same with most unis nowadays because, as Rob said, your job prospects are severely limited as an external LLB...*also waits to be flamed*... Unless you already work in the field as a paralegal or something. I'd recommend doing an LLB as a post-grad.

Phew, glad someone agrees.

I think external LLBs are great for the right people. But I would never recommend it for someone in our position.

I have 3 options

(1) Stay at MQ and do a BA/LLB instead
(2) Do B Bus (UTS) and LLB simultaenously at diff unis
(3) Do B Bus then seek grad entry to Law at UTS

I can get a DFEE place at UTS but would like to avoid it

1) What would you do as a major? If you end up wanting to do a BA LLB, I'd suggest also then looking into honours.
2) Where?
3) I'd go for grad entry to USyd, UNSW, and then UTS, to be honest.

And what do you mean a DFEE place? DFEE place in what?

(edit) I think MQ need a post grad on campus degree. I would think you can make it at least 3 years and not affect pre reqs overly. 3 subjects a semester.

Yes, I also think that MQ needs grad law, among other things.

UTS is the leader in flexiblity in this regard. An LLB straight or a JD.

To split hairs, I don't think it's about flexibility, I think it's about practicality. UTS is extremely practical when it comes to law:

1. Some HSCers just want to finish law as soon as possible. = LLB.
2. Some NRSLers want a mixed practical/theoretical degree. = JD. Not that I'm fond of the JD degree name.
3. Most law students will want practical experience. = Combine with College of Law.

In these regards, I think MQ is quite impractical. No substantive law in first year?!

 

[antisheep]

In these regards, I think MQ is quite impractical. No substantive law in first year?!

UTS doesn't have any substantive law first year either... like mac there are only 2 first year law subs for the bulk of the student population and they're Legal History and Research and some other unit that I think is mostly a fundamentals of law course. I think that first year law at mac is alright it would just be greatly improved by flipping them maybe (putting juris in 2nd semester) cos i feel, as well as alot of my friends in juris, feel as though we're learning about the philosophy of something we don't even understand yet.

 

[maka]

1) What would you do as a major? If you end up wanting to do a BA LLB, I'd suggest also then looking into honours.
2) Where?
3) I'd go for grad entry to USyd, UNSW, and then UTS, to be honest.

And what do you mean a DFEE place? DFEE place in what?

Answers:
Q1: Politics
Q2: BBus at UTS and LLB at MQ if possible. I dont think it will be.
Q3: Agreed

In relation to the DFEE spot, I got offered one last year. Rejected because of the cost.

 

[maka]

UTS' first year whilst not substantial provides you with the building blocks for undertaking a law degree.

Something so necessary as Legal Research is neglected. Then you come into Year 2 subjects and they are like "you didnt research properly"or "poor citation".

I like the Foundations and Legal Research double. It is ""best practice" in NSW unis.

 

[antisheep]

it's still not substantive... and also I think that they may be trying to fix that research problem this year... apparently a large part of the difference between "law lawyers and society" and the new 2nd semester subject "fundamentals of law" is a much larger research element and skills based stuff. But time will tell. The thing is with UTS law is you don't do any law first semester and then are given a 12 cp law sub or something ridiculous like that second semester.. surely there's a better structure than that? Part of the reason i elected not to do UTS law is cos all of the students hated it.

 

[maka]

It has changed to Perspectives on Law (8cp) and Legal Research and Method (6cp).

Ask any student at MQ and I know what combination they would rather do.

In Harry Potter, Voldemort is the person who shall not be named. At Macquarie Uni, Jurisprudence is the subject that shall not be named.

You hear Jurisprudence even in 4th year and its like you have insulted them. And badly!

You dont need substantive law per se although desirable. Jurisprudence is a one semester waste of time.

Wouldnt just limit the argument to UTS v MQ either. Just look at the courses and all others at least have Legal Research and Foundations. My LAW 104 tutor even said the structure was undesirable.

 

[antisheep]

yeah, i'm not sure why they put juris first either... although I see their point about putting it early. Maybe the unis that just jump straight in have it right? At UWS first semester is criminal law, torts and contracts...

I'm not sure.. it's hard to compare cos most people have only experienced one so who are we to comment? But oh well, first year is just a year and by the second the structure is pretty much the same across the board.

 

[maka]

I think 1st year is what is unfair to new students though.

Jurisprudence seems to be some gigantic puzzle which you think you have put it together but realise the dog has eaten the remainingf 3 pieces. A lot of work for nothing.

Jurisprudence is nicknamed "natural attrition" by some. It is so hard that people drop out of law. A lot of these people think Jurisprudence is indicative of the actual degree which is unfortunate. A lot of bright minds lost to the legal profession because of some natural attrition test.

Anecdotally, my Juris class got smaller each week whilst I am told at UNSW, USYD because they learn skills and a background to law they are introducing students much easily into legal studies and students dont feel the pressure of Hart, Bentham and Dworkin, they actually stay.

UTS I think has it down pat. Semester One focus on degree A which is a bit easier and helps transition and then 2 law subjects getting you ready for substantive law in Year 2.

 

[antisheep]

I could go on forever about how jurisprudence was a shit. Relatively easy concepts hidden in massively complex and at times unreadable language (with the occasional use of Latin just to shit stir). Nothing like philosophy units - which care about meaning and clear expression. On the other hand, if you have to do it, then its better to get it out of the way fast.

yeah i suppose that that's a good point... Usyd has to do juris too they just do it in 5th year... as does one of the other sydney unis... forget which.

I personally am not finding juris too bad... the class debates are interesting, the readings relevant to the lectures... and that's about all I need to keep myself happy. Some of the other people in the course are finding it a bit of a crap unit, but I think for the most part people seem pretty content about the direction the subject is going in. Perhaps they've changed it? Because the feedback from previous years seems to be really different from the opinions of the current cohort.

 

[maka]

The first years on my bus hate it.

I dont even know them that well but I dont mind joining in for a bit of a bitch about Juris hahaha.

 

[melsc]

I found it weird when I transfered from UWS.

We did:
Intro to law and Torts in first semester and Law Foundation (eqv Jurisprudence) and Criminal law in second semester. It was tough but it gave us a good idea of what the degree was about and were able to practice what we were learning in the skills subject (Intro) in our substantive subjects.

It was really weird when in Contracts at Macquarie they were teaching basic problem solving methods etc...until I found out it was their first substantive law subject. I think the Mac system is stupid because 1st years think thats what law is like and it also baby's them a bit. They should know what they are getting into and start practicing the skills while they are fresh not months later.

 

[antisheep]

yeah... i am finding it really strange being expected to discuss the philosophy of something i don't really know all that much about yet. I am enjoying the subject but it's not what I pictured a law degree to be like. It's more like the philosophy components of my degree last year. I am eager to get past all this and get into something a bit more relevant... even though I enjoy juris.

The thing is quite a few people have told me that juris is to sort the wheat from the chaff... work out who really wants to be there... but if juris isn't what the rest of the degree is like... then its probably a bit of a flawed idea... makes me wonder how many people have dropped cos they didn't like juris when they would've loved the rest of the degree.

 

[maka]

Jurisprudence is like working out whether the wall is off white, cream, beige or egg shell (courtesy of Dulux).

And after all, the answer is the wall is fucking white.

(edit: cos you can say fuck on this forum!)

 

[xeuyrawp]

You can say 'fuck' on this forum.

Anyway, UTS' first year law does have substantive law - the legal research and writing bit has students engaged with substantive law, not the philosophy or any other part of law.

 

[antisheep]

that's not what the students have told me... they said that they spent entirely too much time learning how to research but not actually researching anything... but that could have been down to opinion or something...