Disadvantaged pathways to Medicine degrees (1 Viewer)

[ABCreporterMartySmiley]

Hey there,
I'm Marty, I'm a journalist at the ABC who's researching the positives and negatives of the university admissions system for future med students.
In particular, how it benefits or misses the mark when it comes to giving students from low socio-economic areas (low SES) a better shot at entry into a degree.

Some issues I've heard raised by other students are:

- "the way 'disadvantage' is measured isn't fair."
For instance, someone from from a low SES area, might be wealthy, but still benefit. Or someone may list their rural address as their home, but it's actually their parents holiday house and they rarely stay there. Have you ever heard about this or encountered that?

- "the ATAR and UCAT minimums aren't lowered enough"
If you or your parent's can't afford tutoring and you work part-time to support your family, you'll have less time and ability to score as highly.
Do you or someone you know miss out on entry to medicine because a few decimal points?

- "After year 12, your 'disadvantage' counts for nothing"
The barriers to entry after HSC if you miss out the first time can be very difficult. Not everyone has the ability to travel interstate and do a Medicine degree with a lower ATAR entry. Have you tried heaps of times and not got into the med degree you want to do?

I'm interested to hear from students who:
- relate to the statements above and would like to tell me their own experience.
- are doing their HSC and have been identified as being eligible for an equity pathway or access scheme.
- have been chosen for an equity pathway in the past and can tell me what it was like once the degree commenced.
- have an aspiration of being a doctor in a low SES area but have had difficulty gaining entry to a medicine degree

If this is you, shoot me an email: marty.smiley@abc.net.au - or reply below if you want to discuss the topic further anonymously.
(Or DM me on IG/Tiktok if that's easier: @martysmiley )

Cheers,
Marty.

 

[its_ace21]

i think the whole rural or 25% low socio-economic thing is unfair. I feel like if an advantage scheme were to exist it would be better to see which school the student goes to, as well as the financial position of the student/parents, and maybe other factors instead of just location

 

[year10studentpreparin]

Hey there,
I'm Marty, I'm a journalist at the ABC who's researching the positives and negatives of the university admissions system for future med students.
In particular, how it benefits or misses the mark when it comes to giving students from low socio-economic areas (low SES) a better shot at entry into a degree.

Some issues I've heard raised by other students are:

- "the way 'disadvantage' is measured isn't fair."
For instance, someone from from a low SES area, might be wealthy, but still benefit. Or someone may list their rural address as their home, but it's actually their parents holiday house and they rarely stay there. Have you ever heard about this or encountered that?

- "the ATAR and UCAT minimums aren't lowered enough"
If you or your parent's can't afford tutoring and you work part-time to support your family, you'll have less time and ability to score as highly.
Do you or someone you know miss out on entry to medicine because a few decimal points?

- "After year 12, your 'disadvantage' counts for nothing"
The barriers to entry after HSC if you miss out the first time can be very difficult. Not everyone has the ability to travel interstate and do a Medicine degree with a lower ATAR entry. Have you tried heaps of times and not got into the med degree you want to do?

I'm interested to hear from students who:
- relate to the statements above and would like to tell me their own experience.
- are doing their HSC and have been identified as being eligible for an equity pathway or access scheme.
- have been chosen for an equity pathway in the past and can tell me what it was like once the degree commenced.
- have an aspiration of being a doctor in a low SES area but have had difficulty gaining entry to a medicine degree

If this is you, shoot me an email: marty.smiley@abc.net.au - or reply below if you want to discuss the topic further anonymously.
(Or DM me on IG/Tiktok if that's easier: @martysmiley )

Cheers,
Marty.

I think giving rural people a bit of a boost is fair, I dont know exactly how much but it seems like everybody thinks its very unfair so It might be a bit too high of a boost?
So I think they should be like centrelink and not only take into the account that you are rural but also your parents yearly income.

Since as a poorer rural I wouldnt even bother going to a sydney uni if that meant I had to relocate because that would be expensive but if someone whos rural had to relocate but also is just rich in the first place so they can afford to rent well yeah maybe dont give them as much of a boost.

 

[year10studentpreparin]

i think the whole rural or 25% low socio-economic thing is unfair. I feel like if an advantage scheme were to exist it would be better to see which school the student goes to, as well as the financial position of the student/parents, and maybe other factors instead of just location

yeah I think it should be their location and the financial position of the parents and student

 

[Average Boreduser]

as someone who is applying for med w no eas, i hate the system. i have friends living rurally in a multimillion dollar property, and its sick knowing they will be able to get into med so easily when i work so hard and may not. some people get EAS for the nichest of reasons, that other people dont even know about. i hate the scheme to be honest, because seeing so many people milk it just shows everyone how corrupt and useless it is, and at the end of the day its just sad to watch the people who make excuses instead of working hard get the degrees.
this is from someone who works a job 20+ hours a week, plays elite sport, etc

A very biased post, with little to no reasoning on why it's so 'unfair'. Take it from a student who has been in rural schools for 10 yrs now. We have barely any resources, barely any tuition companies (even those are hugely generic money grabbing cartels that make money by letting students sit in a room for 2 hrs on their phones so their parents believe that they are 'learning'), and some students are even forced to do rote learning online to do extension subjects due to the unavailability of teachers. Lots of the schools I've gone to rarely get atars in the 99s, some even not reaching 91 atar thresold in certain cohorts... And how do you have the audacity to say that students who live rurally 'make excuses instead of working hard'??? Seriously? You're clearly just here to attack rural students, rather than raise a point.

With that said, I do feel that the cutoff is too low. Maybe in the 96-97 range would be more suitable as a threshold.

 

[year10studentpreparin]

A very biased post, with little to no reasoning on why it's so 'unfair'. Take it from a student who has been in rural schools for 10 yrs now. We have barely any resources, barely any tuition companies, and some students are even forced to do rote learning online to do extension subjects due to the unavailability of teachers. Lots of the schools I've gone to rarely get atars in the 99s, some even not reaching 91 atar thresold in certain cohorts... And how do you have the audacity to say that students who live rurally 'make excuses instead of working hard'??? Seriously? You're clearly just here to attack rural students, rather than raise a point.

very interesting read. do you know what constitutes as Rural?
I guess wollongong lets say compared to effin broken hill or we dont even have to go that far maybe lets say Bega or something is obviously a very large difference but the wollongonger is defo gonna need to move to sydney just like the others

 

[Average Boreduser]

very interesting read. do you know what constitutes as Rural?
I guess wollongong lets say compared to effin broken hill or we dont even have to go that far maybe lets say Bega or something is obviously a very large difference but the wollongonger is defo gonna need to move to sydney just like the others

I mean, I'd just classify anywhere Ma.2 or lower on the monash rurality scale

 

[year10studentpreparin]

I mean, I'd just classify anywhere Ma.2 or lower on the monash rurality scale

ye i agree

 

[liamkk112]

i think rural schemes should defintely exist, the disadvantage in rural towns is pretty insane... think about how in sydney, even if u live in a low socioeconomic area, u can be motivated and fairly easily have access to selective schools, tutoring centers, etc so easily, even places like western sydney which have long been associated with "low economical status" (lol its not that bad really) still have girraween, penrith, hurlstone etc as good schools where u can find motivated cohorts and good resources. compare this to 90% of rural towns, there are no selective schools so if u want a better learning environment, u either have to pay for a private school (which might not even be as resourced as a normal school in sydney), there are of course a couple of exceptions eg grafton but for majority of towns, u have to work 100x harder and be much more self motivated than someone who lives in an urban area to succeed, which can be quite difficult. not to mention availability of tertiary institutions, ik charles sturt exists but theres not 5 really good unis like how we have macquarie, uts, unsw, usyd, even wsu in sydney all available easily. so relocation scholarships should 100% exist, even then rural students r basically forced to work in uni while urban students have luxury of living with parents lol. so yes, rural schemes r great, yes because medicine is so competitive as someone in sydney u might think "oh its so unfair, 90 atar requirement only whereas 98 atar for me?" but in reality 90 atar is much harder for most rural students to achieve, yes there is the odd case where rural students may have an "unfair advantage" over unfair applicants depending on resources in their town, their financial background etc but overall i can't see why it wouldnt be beneficial

 

[carrotsss]

Imo the rural bonus points themselves aren't a problem (no, it's not just about 'fairness' its also about having more rural doctors), but they should really stagger the bonus points based on levels of rurality, someone living in a rural city should not be treated the same as someone living in a tiny remote town

re the cost of relocation, there are government scholarships (which are means tested) for rural kids who relocate for university, but it's also definitely something that should have more focus because especially for moving to Sydney, there simply isn't enough support for someone to move for uni (especially medicine) without parental support financially. It's definitely an option that should be explored rather than just reducing ATAR cutoffs more.

 

[qldbulls]

Hey there,
I'm Marty, I'm a journalist at the ABC who's researching the positives and negatives of the university admissions system for future med students.
In particular, how it benefits or misses the mark when it comes to giving students from low socio-economic areas (low SES) a better shot at entry into a degree.

Some issues I've heard raised by other students are:

- "the way 'disadvantage' is measured isn't fair."
For instance, someone from from a low SES area, might be wealthy, but still benefit. Or someone may list their rural address as their home, but it's actually their parents holiday house and they rarely stay there. Have you ever heard about this or encountered that?

- "the ATAR and UCAT minimums aren't lowered enough"
If you or your parent's can't afford tutoring and you work part-time to support your family, you'll have less time and ability to score as highly.
Do you or someone you know miss out on entry to medicine because a few decimal points?

- "After year 12, your 'disadvantage' counts for nothing"
The barriers to entry after HSC if you miss out the first time can be very difficult. Not everyone has the ability to travel interstate and do a Medicine degree with a lower ATAR entry. Have you tried heaps of times and not got into the med degree you want to do?

I'm interested to hear from students who:
- relate to the statements above and would like to tell me their own experience.
- are doing their HSC and have been identified as being eligible for an equity pathway or access scheme.
- have been chosen for an equity pathway in the past and can tell me what it was like once the degree commenced.
- have an aspiration of being a doctor in a low SES area but have had difficulty gaining entry to a medicine degree

If this is you, shoot me an email: marty.smiley@abc.net.au - or reply below if you want to discuss the topic further anonymously.
(Or DM me on IG/Tiktok if that's easier: @martysmiley )

Cheers,
Marty.

I reckon the rural entry schemes are fine. Even in a tiny or extremely low SES school if you're aiming for med you're probably gonna have the work ethic to get into that high enough ATAR/UCAT range for the entry schemes to do the rest of the work (i assume there's an adjustment for UCAT score)
I don't know anything about western sydney/wollongong sort of low SES, but the bigger barrier for rural is 100% relocation to the city. Not only money but the "culture shock" I suppose. I'm lucky enough to have spent some time in newy but I know some people who have literally never seen a super busy city/large town setting let alone lived in one, a move there by yourself would be very jarring and foreign. From my school I've noticed kids from properties are usually fine for the move cause that's all they have to worry about with a revenue stream coming from mum and dad.
It's a bit tougher for anyone without a secure "base" though, only 2 people not from a big farm in the last like 10 years at my school have gone on to uni, both fairly high achieving so they were able to ride the scholarship train I think.
I can't comment on what itll be like once you start but im sure ill know everything about it next year though i better mention im not doing med

 

[its_ace21]

i feel like other factors should be taken into consideration, for example, im eligible for the 25% low socio-economic thing, but i feel like its an unfair advantage because id rather someone else who needs that than me (most of my school is eligible for it but trust me they dont need it)

 

[oml]

I agree, I've looked through the EAS scheme and my area isn't apart of the lowest 25% of socio-economic disadvantage in Australia. The closest high school to me is ranked around 400 and it's also a private school so I have to travel 1 hour every day to go to a better school. I live in a rural area and only get wifi for half the month. On top of that, during bushfire season there was a fire ablaze and it burnt down 3 houses (almost mine too, maybe 1/2 an acre burnt.) Lets hope I don't get displaced this summer and pray for my animals

 

[year10studentpreparin]

I agree, I've looked through the EAS scheme and my area isn't apart of the lowest 25% of socio-economic disadvantage in Australia. The closest high school to me is ranked around 400 and it's also a private school so I have to travel 1 hour every day to go to a better school. I live in a rural area and only get wifi for half the month. On top of that, during bushfire season there was a fire ablaze and it burnt down 3 houses (almost mine too, maybe 1/2 an acre burnt.) Lets hope I don't get displaced this summer and pray for my animals

what animals do u have but ill pray for yall