Do you think the average Australian hates America/ns and if so why? (2 Viewers)

[berghousemaa]

I've travelled to every continent on earth except Sth America and Antartica and have experienced a lot of cultures. I've heard stereotypes of all people like the French. As long as you aren't borish they're great people.
And about Americans, on my last trip I went with my school for a basketball tour and we each stayed with about 6 different families. About a third of us were normal "i hate american" lefties but after the tour every single person thought they had met some of the nicest people ever. Sure they may be slightly ignorant on global matters, but that is a product of their education, doesn't mean they're stupid.
People only actually have a problem with their government's decisions, but give me a super power ever in history that was liked by the rest of the world.

 

[berghousemaa]

Personally I dispise pretty much all american government policy and a good number of the participants in american politics. I accept aspects of american culture. And I like some o0f the american people. This is based generally around the political beliefs they hold in that as a general rule I do not like southerners yet do like the residents of the north end of the east coast and some of those from the south end of the west coast.

That's so pathetically sad.

 

[Bone577]

America is filled with fantastic people I am sure. Even the ones that seem bad can't be blamed, everyone is just a product of their environment and influences. The political spectrum in the US is severely bent out of shape, so even those that have a completely opposed view to me in polotics can't be blamed.

There are some that know better (and I am not calling the masses ignorant, but "misinformed") these people are truelly horrid, but such people are all over the world, it is just their roles are heightened in America.

 

[loquasagacious]

Pray tell elaborate.

I believe that the policies pursued by the Bush administration in pretty much all areas of governance are deeply flawed especially foriegn policy and social issues/social security.

I do not as a general rule get along well with people who hold a conservative/reactionary political view-point. I am pro-choice, I favour governance for the people over governance for profit, I do not support interventionist foriegn policy (though there are obvious exceptions East Timor, WWII), I support equal oppurtunity, I believe in supporting the disadvantaged within our society, I refusee to support a government in war no matter what.

As evidenced by the voting of the southern US states/the bible-belt and of my contact with southerners/bible-belters they do not believe the same things I do. This means that in general I do not get along with them.

In general residents of other areas hold more similar beliefs to me and so we get along better.

Oh yeah and the last sentence of your first post made no fucking sense.

People only actually have a problem with their government's decisions, but give me a super power ever in history that was liked by the rest of the world.

 

[loquasagacious]

I never said that I blamed people personally for their views .

Oh and berghousemaa if your complaint had anything to do with me generalising then you are a hyopcrite as you hugely generalised in your first post.

I've travelled to every continent on earth except Sth America and Antartica

In case it escaped your notice there is a great variety of cultures on a continent - visiting Sth Africa does not make you qualified to talk about Ghana, staying in france doesn't give you much insight in Russia, living in Ho-Chi-Minh city does not make you an expert on manchuria.

 

[berghousemaa]

Most people's complaints should actually be labelled exclusively at the government and not the ordinary people. I was defending America by questioning whether there had been any other superpowers or even powers whose foreign policy was liked by the rest of the world.

On my statement about how you don't like Southerners etc I found it sad that you could let your political beliefs determine whether you could be friends with them. I was probably a bit misguided saying that as it is obviously very important to you.

However you're partly right about southerners and bible bashers, lots of them are plain creepy. But even from Utah, the Morman state, most of them are regular people. Texans while a little conservative are mostly real nice.

 

[Bone577]

Oh yeah and the last sentence of your first post made no fucking sense.

I will try and make sense of it.


It would be more accurate to say that there has never been a superpower that hasn't abused it's power for its own gain. Poweful nations seem to be by nature, criminal and imperialist. I personally can't think of any powerful nations that didn't take advantage of others.

 

[berghousemaa]

In case it escaped your notice there is a great variety of cultures on a continent - visiting Sth Africa does not make you qualified to talk about Ghana, staying in france doesn't give you much insight in Russia, living in Ho-Chi-Minh city does not make you an expert on manchuria.

I said I hadn't visited Sth America and make no claims about Ghana or anything. I made no generalisations about Africa or Asia, nor did a claim or write anything as an expert.
Youre right though that staying in France doesn't give me an insight into Russia. Who said I hadn't though?
Staying in France or U.S.A or Britain or Sth Afric or Kuala Lumpur of Beijing etc however does make me more knowledegable about their people than someone who hasn't. Again maybe i'm being slightly presumptuous but have you stayed in U.S.A or France etc.

 

[loquasagacious]

Thanks for the explanation Bone577, I was just completely mis-reading it as garbled bs, sleepy lol.

It is not a case of me allowing my politics to determine my friends in general I don't however politics is linked to my friend determination process in that conservative politics generally indicate certain traits/mentality which I do not like. I have a great number of friends whose politics differ to varying degrees from my own, only fanatics don't.

My point was not that you were making points about places that you hadn't been to but that you were accusing me of generalising whilst generalising yourself. In that you were saying that you had been to evry continent except antarctica and Sth America (I'm guessing you weren't counting india as a seperate continent nor central america as a seperate area to south america) as if it gave you authority on insights into all countries on these continents.

I have stayed in England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, China, the USA, Japan and Korea. My parents have backpacked through/stayed in/worked in (in addition to the above) New Zealand, USSR and China (during the cold war), Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Thailand, Indonesia, the Philipines, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Burma, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina (shortly after the coup by Pinochet), Brazil, Italy, Spain, Austria and Switzerland.

I have a fair ammount of first hand insight and a great deal of second hand, and yes my parents insights are most definately passed on to me.

 

[frenchie]

Most people's complaints should actually be labelled exclusively at the government and not the ordinary people. I was defending America by questioning whether there had been any other superpowers or even powers whose foreign policy was liked by the rest of the world.

Berghousemaa:

But surely the idea of representative government means that people vote for the leadership which most reflects their own beliefs and wishes for the country. Therefore when people have a gripe with America this would normally include Americans. If as you suggest government and people are two groups with different interests, then America must surely be a dictatorship or atleast come close?

Side note - During the original framing of the US constitution, Benjamin Franklin expressed his belief that the document was deeply flawed and could not remain in its original form forever. He voted to support it, however, because in the climate of the time a good, if not perfect, government was better than none at all.
So consider his statment. Somewhat prophetic?

In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other.

 

[loquasagacious]

The common belief at the time was that within 20-50 years there should be another revolution because otherwise things would get to much like tyranny.....

The reason that american government and american people are differentiated is the scant ammount of interest that american people pay to the political process. In that under 50% generally turn out to vote and those that do gnerally do for superficial reasons. Most particularly as long as open war isn't involved they don't seem to give a rats arse about foriegn policy. This apathy is largely a product of their political and educational system.

 

[berghousemaa]

The common belief at the time was that within 20-50 years there should be another revolution because otherwise things would get to much like tyranny.....

The reason that american government and american people are differentiated is the scant ammount of interest that american people pay to the political process. In that under 50% generally turn out to vote and those that do gnerally do for superficial reasons. Most particularly as long as open war isn't involved they don't seem to give a rats arse about foriegn policy. This apathy is largely a product of their political and educational system.

I agree in parts.
Frenchie I disconnected the two entities because I don't think the American people base their vote on foreign policy, rather what is in their best interests, maybe however not in the last one.
This can also be seen in Australia where the war in Iraq was a non issue. It is being witnessed again with the German Australian held in detention, people feel empathy but thta is where it starts and ends, hardly anyone's vote will be changed because of the situation, much like the children overboard scandel.

Based on that logic America's foreign policy is almost wholly the responsibility of the government and not the people.
Feel free to disagree.

 

[VonDavis]

Americans are really Dumb ..... LOL.

 

[Arvin Sloane]

Americans are really Dumb ..... LOL.

Prove it. Prove that all Americans are dumb. Otherwise don't make such statements which quite frankly make you look 'dumb'

 

[Jiga]

They cause shit in another countries, they attack Iraq for Weapons of mass destruction but cant find any, they actually gave Iraq weapons to fight Iran now they use these same weapons to kill Americna soliders, they re-elected Bush... the list goes.

^ That sounds prity dumb ^

Obviously it doesnt apply to every American, but hey, who cares!

 

[waterfowl]

My main reasons for 'hating' America/ns is that

firstly I hate it how their governement thinks they are the police/rulers of the world. I flicked over to that West Wing show (horrid show) last night, and this ambassador made a good point: that America disallows nearly every other country from developing nuclear weapons, yet it is the only country that has ever used them in a tactical and real sense.

secondly I hate how they are so intolerant/uneducated about the broader world, life revolves around them. I don't know the statistic, but a lot of Americans don't even have a passport. Example: they continually confuse the country of Austria with Australia, and always ask Austrian's "where are the kangaroos?", so much so that there are souvenir shirts in Austria with the words "No Kangaroos in Austria" printed on them.

 

[frenchie]

Prove it. Prove that all Americans are dumb. Otherwise don't make such statements which quite frankly make you look 'dumb'

I agree that such sweeping generalisations are not helpful, but this guy still has a point, however crudely he makes it.

Research, polls etc. do reveal that Americans in general suffer from a pervasive ignorance of international affairs, particularly those of the Middle East and the impact of their foreign policy. That is not to say all Americans suffer this fate - plenty of well informed voices exist that struggle to be heard above the simplisitic "We are good. They are evil" mentality which dominates. But still, in the months following the Iraq invasion, polls revealed that a majority of Americans held Saddam Hussein responsible for 9/11, and supported torture of detainees even if in violation of the Geneva Convention.

I don't see how anyone can argue that Americans are a well informed population - AT ALL. By the same token, Australians do a damn good job of ignoring much of our domestic and international politics, but we aren't the the world's self-proclaimed "Defenders of Democracy" ready to embark on global adventures whenever we please.

 

[loquasagacious]

Exactly they are not necaserily dumb however they are by and large uneducated about anything beyond their borders.

Unlike us no high school subjects (eg History and Geography) deal with peoples, politics and issues beyond their own borders.

The first contact an averge american student has with these things is in university IF they choose to do subjects that deal with it. When you consider how few americans go to university (compared to other countries and expressed as a percentage) and the number that do go who don't take subjects dealing with these issues it is very easy to see how the average maerican has very little idea about the outside world.

This is largely a product of america's historic isolationism. Ever since founding americans have been pretty happy to have canada as a front yard, south america as a backyard and the caribean as a swimming pool. They percieved this to be their rightful sphere of influence. And were not particularly intetrested in adventurism or learning about other places.

Going to WWI was an unpopular move as it effectively ended isolationism. Post WWI the US shrank back, they were unwilling to go to WWII until directly attacked. Post WWII Truman affectively ended isolationism with the marshall plan and his opposition to communism.

Now armed with a spectre of communism (feel free to draw parallels with terrorism), government was able to enage in adventurism with the peoples support. However the people of the USA never considered themselves to be colonialist or imperialist as far as they are concerned it is a matter of beating them over there and then coming home for dinner.

Therefore there remained only limited interest in the broader world as the intent was always to resume the old ways of isolationism. Really for the average american I doubt this has changed. They don't like foriegners 'stealing their jobs' as economies become more inter-dependant, they don't like keeping soldiers overseas unless there is a war, in fact they pretty much wouldn't mind if evryone else just kept to themselves.

American government/business however now has huge vested interests in the rest of the world and will fight tooth and nail to preserve their global dominance as the worlds only hyperpower.

As far as the West-wing comment goes, more pertinent are some other examples. The US retains stockpiles of banned chemical and biological weapons. Within a year of accusing the russians of using Fuel-air bombs in Chechnya (and this being a crime as they are so devasting and non-discriminatory) the US successfully tested the worlds largest example of a fuel air bomb, the MOAB and was using daisy-cutter and cluster bombs in afghanistan.

 

[Vangineer]

i'd say the average australian doesnt really give a fuck.
Why?

because regardless what a fucked up forum like this one,
ragardless of all the ranting and swearing and controversial threads, u cant really put a dent into the american government. Same with ppl in australia who really dislike america (me) , even hardcore rallyists, we cant do anything.

So no one gives a shit. If u take this matter seriously (i.e. outside the forum / in ur normal real life) --> ur the one thats fucked in the head

 

[berghousemaa]

Exactly they are not necaserily dumb however they are by and large uneducated about anything beyond their borders.

Unlike us no high school subjects (eg History and Geography) deal with peoples, politics and issues beyond their own borders.

The first contact an averge american student has with these things is in university IF they choose to do subjects that deal with it. When you consider how few americans go to university (compared to other countries and expressed as a percentage)QUOTE]
While I agree with the rest of your post you've got your facts wrong here. European history is a significant part of the curriculum in most states, albeit less important than in Australia. Consider also that we don't even touch european history until year 11.

It is also important how you mean university. A massive percentage of Americans have tertiary education, whether through a commmunity college, a college or a university like Stanford.

Still, it doesn't really distract from the rest of your post.