Does Feminism annoy anyone else? (1 Viewer)

[Meldrum]

Revenge Tragedy is such a beautiful genre. The glory of a succulently bloody death, the poisoning of widowers, ghost-stories and the embowellment of Black Adders.

But what is really giving my the shizzles is how bad my class makes me feel about the actions of males in the past. Medea and The Revenger's Tragedy both portray negative views on women. As such, I have to hear about it; all period, every period. "Blah, blah, blah...women get it bad because of men like you."

It's not so much the female-centered or the "how poorly were women treated" concepts that I dislike - I agree! (I have a copy of the Female Eunuch, you know; and every CD released by Le Tigre). It's just the fact that the teach has to make 9% of the class feel bad by appeasing the tenuous, moralistic demands of the female section - 91%.

N.B - I'm well aware of the irony that in a class on Revenge Tragedy, that women take revenge on men. It's just that I hate being blamed for the work of mysoginistic pigs.

 

[ogmzergrush]

Revenge Tragedy is such a beautiful genre. The glory of a succulently bloody death, the poisoning of widowers, ghost-stories and the embowellment of Black Adders.

But what is really giving my the shizzles is how bad my class makes me feel about the actions of males in the past. Medea and The Revenger's Tragedy both portray negative views on women. As such, I have to hear about it; all period, every period. "Blah, blah, blah...women get it bad because of men like you."

It's not so much the female-centered or the "how poorly were women treated" concepts that I dislike - I agree! (I have a copy of the Female Eunuch, you know; and every CD released by Le Tigre). It's just the fact that the teach has to make 9% of the class feel bad by appeasing the tenuous, moralistic demands of the female section - 91%.

N.B - I'm well aware of the irony that in a class on Revenge Tragedy, that women take revenge on men. It's just that I hate being blamed for the work of mysoginistic pigs.

Get used to it, try as hard as you may, you're never going to be forgiven for what others have done.

 

[AsyLum]

Next time they argue with you punch them in the face. Equal oppurtunity ahoy.

 

[Jago]

holy shit yes!

does anyone else think affirmative action violates the whole equal opportunities thing?

"oh we should have equal conditions, but let's give women a little bit extra just because of genetics"

like that thing i heard a while ago, giving women a few days off a month to get over their periods. like wtf?

 

[ogmzergrush]

holy shit yes!

does anyone else think affirmative action violates the whole equal opportunities thing?

"oh we should have equal conditions, but let's give women a little bit extra just because of genetics"

like that thing i heard a while ago, giving women a few days off a month to get over their periods. like wtf?

chauvinist pig

 

[AsyLum]

 

[Jago]

chauvinist pig

if that's chauvinistic then i'm chris franklin.

 

[a8o]

It's swung too far the toher way. And the whole HSC is rigged for women!

 

[Jago]

It's swung too far the toher way.

agreed.

And the whole HSC is rigged for women!

i disagree.

 

[Meldrum]

agreed.

i disagree.

BAH?!

It so does, the whole female-oriented approach to study.

For guys to learn, the information has to be printed on 12 foot porn posters. Women are easy, they can read paper.

 

[glycerine]

you're all quite idiotic.

especially mike. i hate the term 'femi-nazis'. that type of woman is NOT a feminist foremost, but apart from that, it's an erroneous comparison anyway.

 

[ogmzergrush]

i hate the term 'femi-nazis'.

"Equal rights activist who seems to have forgotten that males exist", doesn't really roll off the tongue quite as easily as feminazi.

Nobody is being critical of feminism in general, just those people who take it to the extreme and ruin it for everyone, like with anything else. Yes there is a place for equal rights, but no, that doesn't involve eradicating males from the face of the Earth. I believe that's where the comparison between extreme feminism and the nazis comes in, and it seems fairly accurate to me.

As I said, I have no problem with feminism, but when somebody attempting to achieve equal rights, does it in a way that makes me feel bad for being male, despite me having done nothing wrong, I feel that they're taking it too far.

At least, that's my take on the bulk of the thread so far, though like you said, I'm quite idiotic, so maybe I don't know what I mean.

 

[glycerine]

but thats the thing! people forget about the concept of equity which is what really underlies a lot of feminist thought... really i think in some situations the term 'equality' is used where it should be 'equity'.
for example, you can roll your eyes and make as many snide comments as you want about the concept of menstrual leave, but men do not and will never have something that potentially affects them hormonally etc every 3-6 weeks as a matter of pure biology. from what i've heard it's not something that is being considered as being awarded to EVERY female... just like not every male automatically gets given leave for prostate cancer. i'm lucky, i suffer very little from my periods, occasionally i get cramps but mostly i just get mood swings and bad skin. however some girls get crippling pain every month that genuinely affects their ability to work.... therefore the concept of menstrual leave.

sorry, that was a bit of a rant, but i've heard so many men make snide comments about this concept and it really shits me.

out of interest do you think women have the right to criticise men who accept higher rates of pay for the same work as sexist? i'm not trying to say i'd do any different but i do think men who do things like this are perpetuating some of the most overwhelmingly sexist elements of our society

 

[Jago]

You want days off? Fine, but you shouldn't be paid for it.

Equal pay for equal work. You want extra sick days, you're getting less money.

To answer your question - equal pay for equal work makes sense to me.

Btw, does the following treaty-based body look utterly stupid to anyone else:

Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination AGAINST WOMEN!!!!

 

[glycerine]

there's generally not equal pay for equal work you gronk, esp not when you get into the higher level jobs.

 

[Jago]

I know that, and that issue needs to be addressed, but you can't simply counter that with another descriminatory proposal.

 

[glycerine]

ahh! you can't call it discriminatory because it's counteracting a problem which can be encountered EXCLUSIVELY BY FEMALES.

is it discrimination because i will never be able to apply for sick leave because of prostrate cancer? course not, because I AM A GIRL. I WILL NEVER GET PROSTRATE CANCER.

 

[ogmzergrush]

but thats the thing! people forget about the concept of equity which is what really underlies a lot of feminist thought... really i think in some situations the term 'equality' is used where it should be 'equity'.
for example, you can roll your eyes and make as many snide comments as you want about the concept of menstrual leave, but men do not and will never have something that potentially affects them hormonally etc every 3-6 weeks as a matter of pure biology. from what i've heard it's not something that is being considered as being awarded to EVERY female... just like not every male automatically gets given leave for prostate cancer. i'm lucky, i suffer very little from my periods, occasionally i get cramps but mostly i just get mood swings and bad skin. however some girls get crippling pain every month that genuinely affects their ability to work.... therefore the concept of menstrual leave.

If it genuinely impacts upon their ability to work, and is awarded accordingly, I agree, and don't really see a problem with menstrual leave.

out of interest do you think women have the right to criticise men who accept higher rates of pay for the same work as sexist? i'm not trying to say i'd do any different but i do think men who do things like this are perpetuating some of the most overwhelmingly sexist elements of our society

Interesting question, I'm not really sure. In jobs where people of either gender do the exact same amount of work (More on this in a moment, bear with me), then I don't see any reason at all for different pay conditions. That said, I think criticism as to the inherent sexism in this would be better directed at those offering the increased rates, rather than those accepting them. It's hard to imagine most people turning down extra money if it was offered, so I don't see that any amount of criticism directed at those who take it would be productive.

For the most part, the fact that there are differing pay rates at all seems ridiculous. That said, I think that differing pay conditions for males and females are acceptable in some (limited) circumstances. Namely, those positions in which the male is implored to do the bulk of the heavy lifting and physical work involved, simply because they're male. I've had it happen to me, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one. "Hey muscles, lift this for me", I don't find that particularly appropriate at all, especially when there's the push for equal pay. It might sound trivial to you but I see no good reason for it myself, if people demand equal pay then they should carry out an equal share of the work. Of course, being male, feminism doesn't actually help in this situation, whereas a push for equal rights, or as you said, equitable rights, would.

The only alternative to this I see is "equitable" pay, where it's adjusted according to how much work the person actually does, but I can't see that gaining widespread acceptance anytime soon. As you said with the female menstrual leave, there is no male equivalent, so I'm not sure how, or if at all, these differences should be reflected in payment arrangements.

What it boils down to is the fact that there are obviously differences between both genders and the way they participate in the workforce, such as the heavy lifting issue I've mentioned, or the menstrual leave which you brought up, and these need to be addressed in an equitable manner. The problem arises in that it's a very delicate subject and that those who attempt to discuss it are often dismissed as being "sexist", as a lot of people are very touchy at the mere suggestion that such differences exist.

 

[Jago]

I think what ogmzergrush said above is actually quite reasonable, equitable pay.

I also understand where you're coming from gly, even though i don't agree with it completely, but since i lack basic debating skills, i'll leave that arguement to others.

 

[crazyhomo]

ahh! you can't call it discriminatory because it's counteracting a problem which can be encountered EXCLUSIVELY BY FEMALES.

is it discrimination because i will never be able to apply for sick leave because of prostrate cancer? course not, because I AM A GIRL. I WILL NEVER GET PROSTRATE CANCER.

menstruation to prostate cancer is a pretty weak comparison. cancer is something that anyone can get, and is treated pretty much the same way no matter what type of cancer it is. menstruation is not a disease, let alone a life threatening one, yet you are treating them as one and the same?

and how will this help do anything but push women further behind? you're an employer, you have the choice between two applicants the same in every respect. except one is female and once a month gets at least one paid day leave, on top of regular sick leave. the other is a man. why on earth would you hire the woman? because you are told you have to by the government? that's starting to sound an awful lot like communism where people are being paid the same whether or not they actually do any work