Does God exist? (6 Viewers)

[emytaylor164]

ok sweet. would you mind explaining the modern relevance of the quotes i posted earlier:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

obey those who are in authority as you do christ.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

If you can just explain those two I'll be impressed.

not sure will attempt to get back to you

 

[*TRUE*]

why should historical context influence the word of god. surely someone as powerful as god wouldn't redefine his views on morality just because society changes.

I dont think that historical context DOES influence the meaning of the Word of God... Unless the historical context includes the SPIRITUAL historical context of Jesus death adn resurrection.
It says in the bible that God is unchanging. Is says that Gods word IS God , and God expresses his views on morality in his word. I dont believe it changes.
I think our understanding deepens in the New Testament.
for example i was reading how Jesus healed a man on the sabbath , and the pharises jumped up and down going on about it , the disciples picked and ate some grain...and Jesus basically said that the sabbath was created FOR man , not man for the sabbath.
The sabbath IS to be kept holy , and is SET APART , but we should not be slave to it.
SO i think rather than his Word changing thru the testaments , our understanding deepens.
Because of Jesus , we have grace more plainly shown to us.
Adultery is always wrong , but we see Jesus demonstrate that judging those who are sexually immoral is immoral itself , because each sin , is , at the end of the day , SIN...and we are ALL equally guilty of that.
Jesus doesnt say that adultery is ok. Just that our understanding needs to be deeper than , WHooooooooooa they is baddies, Im glad I dont do that.
Sorry rambling post.

 

[boris]

it does not change the fact that it is the word of God and has lessons to be learned it is not flawed whatsoever

It DOES change the fact that it is Gods word! How can you not see this.

If it's GODs untouched word, it's safe to say that God doesn't think much of women, blacks, illegitimate children and slaves. Wow, what a sweet benevolent God you have.

If it's GODS word, then it should not have been open to influence by the historical and cultural aspects of the time.

Thus it is not relevent.

 

[emytaylor164]

youre digging yourself a grave. come back when you know what youre talking about.

your asking questions about christianity and as a christian i have answered the questions i do still know the stuff you are asking and if i dont i will find out and answer

 

[boris]

I dont think that historical context DOES influence the meaning of the Word of God... Unless the historical context includes the SPIRITUAL historical context of Jesus death adn resurrection.
It says in the bible that God is unchanging. Is says that Gods word IS God , and God expresses his views on morality in his word. I dont believe it changes.
I think our understanding deepens in the New Testament.
for example i was reading how Jesus healed a man on the sabbath , and the pharises jumped up and down going on about it , the disciples picked and ate some grain...and Jesus basically said that the sabbath was created FOR man , not man for the sabbath.
The sabbath IS to be kept holy , and is SET APART , but we should not be slave to it.
SO i think rather than his Word changing thru the testaments , our understanding deepens.
Because of Jesus , we have grace more plainly shown to us.
Adultery is always wrong , but we see Jesus demonstrate that judging those who are sexually immoral is immoral itself , because each sin , is , at the end of the day , SIN...and we are ALL equally guilty of that.
Jesus doesnt say that adultery is ok. Just that our understanding needs to be deeper than , WHooooooooooa they is baddies, Im glad I dont do that.
Sorry rambling post.

Sweet so Gods word was not influenced by the historical context.

So God hates women and slaves, yeah?

 

[emytaylor164]

I dont think that historical context DOES influence the meaning of the Word of God... Unless the historical context includes the SPIRITUAL historical context of Jesus death adn resurrection.
It says in the bible that God is unchanging. Is says that Gods word IS God , and God expresses his views on morality in his word. I dont believe it changes.
I think our understanding deepens in the New Testament.
for example i was reading how Jesus healed a man on the sabbath , and the pharises jumped up and down going on about it , the disciples picked and ate some grain...and Jesus basically said that the sabbath was created FOR man , not man for the sabbath.
The sabbath IS to be kept holy , and is SET APART , but we should not be slave to it.
SO i think rather than his Word changing thru the testaments , our understanding deepens.
Because of Jesus , we have grace more plainly shown to us.
Adultery is always wrong , but we see Jesus demonstrate that judging those who are sexually immoral is immoral itself , because each sin , is , at the end of the day , SIN...and we are ALL equally guilty of that.
Jesus doesnt say that adultery is ok. Just that our understanding needs to be deeper than , WHooooooooooa they is baddies, Im glad I dont do that.
Sorry rambling post.

that is what i was trying to say thankyou for articulating that nicely i was reffering to look at the social context at the time to understand the meaning of passages.

 

[HalcyonSky]

obey those who are in authority as you do christ.

So i have righteous authority over my negro slaves in my sugarcane fields? sweet

 

[emytaylor164]

Sweet so Gods word was not influenced by the historical context.

So God hates women and slaves, yeah?

how does God hate women? and slaves?

 

[boris]

So i have righteous authority over my negro slaves in my sugarcane fields? sweet

And slap your bitch if she steps out of line!

Ephesians 5:"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

 

[emytaylor164]

So you think this is a good principal to live by?

Should people obey the authority of oppresive governments, domineering parents, corrupt police officers ect, ect.

Don't we have a responsibility to challenge those who abuse their authority?Especially in situations analogous to slavery where they are simply asserting their authority by force.

i love how people take what i am saying and take it too far.
obviously if it is in a situation that is causing you to sin then you dont.

 

[emytaylor164]

no you dont know the stuff i am asking because you still havent given me an answer.

when havent i given you an answer?

 

[boris]

how does God hate women? and slaves?

Read the Bible. Why is everything that ever goes wrong or sinful referred to as a she?



Oh more from the Bible!

Colossians 3: Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men

 

[Graney]

obey those who are in authority as you do christ.

Didn't Jesus constantly flout and challenge authority?

 

[emytaylor164]

working for the lord does not involve sinning. The whole point is obey them to bring glory to God

 

[Enteebee]

working for the lord does not involve sinning. The whole point is obey them to bring glory to God

considering how much jesus rebelled against authority himself I really doubt your interpretation could be seen as correct in light of jesus.

 

[emytaylor164]

suppose they are not causing you to sin. they are just cruel and oppressive (much like a slaver owner, as per the orginal quote).

If the government says you may not say anything negative about the government, by obeying this you are not committing a sin. Because the government is in a position of authority should you therefore obey them?

depends on the sitaution i would suppose.

 

[emytaylor164]

considering how much jesus rebelled against authority himself I really doubt your interpretation could be seen as correct in light of jesus.

you are right he did. to bring glory to God. He did it so he didnt sin.

 

[boris]

okay, so by obeying an oppressive authority figure, how are we bringing glory to god?

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism. (4.1)Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

Apparently.

 

[*TRUE*]

What lesson is learnt here, then?

To honour and obey those in authority.
That a man who treats a woman shamefully has a debt to repay. He has robbed her of something precious (her dignity/virginity or even happiness).
Its really hard answering every question you guys throw our way.
I dont know about Emy , but i sure dont feel like i have anywhere near the understading to be good enough help. Im trying but sometimes i dont have the answers. I am NOT GOD , and I am not the author of his precepts.

 

[Enteebee]

you are right he did. to bring glory to God. He did it so he didnt sin.

It's a silly point then... so it's "Obey authority when it leads to bringing glory to god... don't obey authority when it leads to bringing glory to god" why not say "for every action, bring glory to god"

I dont know about Emy , but i sure dont feel like i have anywhere near the understading to be good enough help. Im trying but sometimes i dont have the answers. I am NOT GOD , and I am not the author of his precepts.

The people who DO have the understanding usually won't be a biblical 'fundamentalist' these days... unless you can recommend me a theologian in Australia that accurately represents your views?