Does God exist? (14 Viewers)

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

It's not. It's not worthless in terms of the people and events you impact. If you believe that our existence has meaning on a higher level than that, then yeah I suppose you would find it depressing to think that way, but my point is that the meaning you find in life is perfectly valid regardless of whether it's found in a higher being or a spiritual sense, or whether you find meaning on a "simpler" level.

Okay let me rephrase that.

Everyone attributes some kind of meaning to their life. I wouldn't believe anyone who said they didn't. It's just that depending on how you look at meaning and value, you could just as easily cherish your life because you have it and for no other reason, as you could cherish it because you think it has a deeper spiritual connection to God.

It comes down to definition, in the end, but I wouldn't say either view was invalid.

 

[Enteebee]

Everyone attributes some kind of meaning to their life.

I think they do at moments of philosophical contemplation, but for the most part I think people in their everyday lives aren't needing to 'attribute' any sort of meaning at all, they are caught up in acts which seem purposeful at the time.... I.e. I'd say for most people, most days, their 'meaning' in life is very basic things like 'to get this file done in time so I can go hang out with my mates and watch a game of footy'.

 

[*TRUE*]

I'm very serious... I don't see God as providing any greater meaning, sure if there is an omnipotent god who has crafted me for a purpose he may know it, but if I have no way of discovering it then what meaning do I have? What meaning does the bible tell us we have? Afaik it tells us our meaning is to do much of the things that atheists fulfill their lives with anyway and perhaps includes the addage "serve god", "serving god" entailing what? It's usually explained to me that this is doing good acts... then how is your meaning any better than someone who chooses to find meaning in doing good acts? It's exactly the same meaning, just with the language of 'god' around it.


Why bother having an effect on the world if God exists? Because he says so and he's your creator? Because he'll punish you if you don't do something with your life? Why? The question will still be there and will need to be answered in much the same way as an atheist does.

A child of God? Loved by the creator of the Universe?
I think Athiests live to please themselves. I live to please God.
I dont find meaning in doing good things.
I think Gods plans are much wider than the Universe....more than i know now.
Plus i dont think i could rationally deny God either....so id be lying ot myself also.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I think they do at moments of philosophical contemplation, but for the most part I think people in their everyday lives aren't needing to 'attribute' any sort of meaning at all, they are caught up in acts which seem purposeful at the time.... I.e. I'd say for most people, most days, their 'meaning' in life is very basic things like 'to get this file done in time so I can go hang out with my mates and watch a game of footy'.

That's true. I think the fact we have moments of contemplation about our lives at all says something, at least. I'd be fairly worried about anyone who could say they honestly never considered what their life has meant, to themselves, to other people...I don't think the "life meaning" debate needs to even touch the God stuff, sometimes. We find meaning at such a basic level anyway, even if we're not thinking about it.

 

[*TRUE*]

I think they do at moments of philosophical contemplation, but for the most part I think people in their everyday lives aren't needing to 'attribute' any sort of meaning at all, they are caught up in acts which seem purposeful at the time.... I.e. I'd say for most people, most days, their 'meaning' in life is very basic things like 'to get this file done in time so I can go hang out with my mates and watch a game of footy'.

The choices I make , i make because i want to develop my character , i want to become more Christlike.
I find meaning in many things

 

[*TRUE*]

but to us its the truth

I know Sam.

 

[Kwayera]

A child of God? Loved by the creator of the Universe?
I think Athiests live to please themselves. I live to please God.
I dont find meaning in doing good things.
I think Gods plans are much wider than the Universe....more than i know now.
Plus i dont think i could rationally deny God either....so id be lying ot myself also.

That's a very.. well, incendiary view. Atheists do not seek only to please themselves; we are not lacking in the same empathy and altruism that drives you to good deeds, only the lever that you ascribe to be God.

In fact, I would find fault with your view: you seek, indeed live to please God, not other people or your own species. Does that mean that if you doing good deeds would not please God, would you bother to do them?

 

[Enteebee]

A child of God? Loved by the creator of the Universe?

Ok... What's so great about being "loved by the creator of the universe"? If that's your meaning then you've already fulfilled it, god will love you whether you go to heaven/hell or shoot yourself in the head now.

I think Athiests live to please themselves. I live to please God.

I think you live to please yourself. This whole discussion is about how you don't like the idea of meaninglessness because it leaves you feeling cold, it pleases you to believe in god, god isn't forcing you to 'please him', you're doing as you please. It makes you feel better for there to be meaning, so that's what you'll have. You're serving yourself.

I dont find meaning in doing good things.

You find meaning in very basic things... posting on an internet forum and making a particularly nice post, it gives you a little bit of joy, your brain actively feels like it's participating in something worthwhile because for the time being at least you're not bothered that you don't have some all encompassing meaning.

 

[*TRUE*]

I'm very serious... I don't see God as providing any greater meaning, sure if there is an omnipotent god who has crafted me for a purpose he may know it, but if I have no way of discovering it then what meaning do I have? What meaning does the bible tell us we have? Afaik it tells us our meaning is to do much of the things that atheists fulfill their lives with anyway and perhaps includes the addage "serve god", "serving god" entailing what? It's usually explained to me that this is doing good acts... then how is your meaning any better than someone who chooses to find meaning in doing good acts? It's exactly the same meaning, just with the language of 'god' around it.


Why bother having an effect on the world if God exists? Because he says so and he's your creator? Because he'll punish you if you don't do something with your life? Why? The question will still be there and will need to be answered in much the same way as an atheist does.

I want the world to have what i have. THAT is why i want to affect it.
You speak of my faith like it is some dead religious lifestyle.
Its living , breathing, alive, WHO I AM.
My passion , my love , why i do what i do.
Why i love people so much , why i am hurt so much but always feel like it is worth it.
Serve God , do good acts, blah blah Christianese i hate it!
You also are not taking into account the love i feel for my God.
Im sure you must have loved before? Doing something for one you love is the greatest most fulfilling joy there is.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

A child of God? Loved by the creator of the Universe?
I think Athiests live to please themselves. I live to please God.
I dont find meaning in doing good things.
I think Gods plans are much wider than the Universe....more than i know now.
Plus i dont think i could rationally deny God either....so id be lying ot myself also.

Not wanting to start a big debate here but I'd say the difference is more that Atheists live as citizens of humanity rather than as children of God and as such are only chiefly concerned with how their actions affect the people around them, whereas a Christian is also concerned with how their actions affect their relationship with God. I don't think there's anything wrong with the former.

 

[*TRUE*]

Ok... What's so great about being "loved by the creator of the universe"? If that's your meaning then you've already fulfilled it, god will love you whether you go to heaven/hell or shoot yourself in the head now.



I think you live to please yourself, this whole discussion is about how you don't like the idea of meaninglessness because it leaves you feeling cold. It makes you feel better for there to be meaning, so that's what you'll have. You're serving yourself.



You find meaning in very basic things... posting on an internet forum and making a particularly nice post, it gives you a little bit of joy, your brain actively feels like it's participating in something worthwhile because for the time being at least you're not bothered that you don't have some all encompassing meaning.

I think maybe you are trying to misconstrue what i am saying with some of the above. Oh well , i dont know if you are or if i am not understanding.
If there is no God , then God is a concept that is only meaningful to me , therefore , it IS all about my feeling cold , yeah?
By posting here i hope that i might make someone else happy , do some good for someone , also , i just enjoy other people's company , and at the moment i am at home most weeknights

 

[*TRUE*]

After we make choices seems to imply he exists inside of time? Seems like it's our will, not his if he crafts his plan after our decision has been made. If he crafts them before then we have no will, as we must obey his master plan. Even if he exists outside of time, whatever influence he can exert over us has to manifest its self inside of time.

Yes indeed
I thought i may have expressed something wrong ( why i said so)
I see where my mistake was now.
: I should have said His plan does not operate in the construct of time.

 

[Enteebee]

I want the world to have what i have. THAT is why i want to affect it.

Ok, then once everyone has died and gone to heaven/hell, what is your meaning then? See, the problem for atheists isn't not having meaning as far as I can tell, you can't deny that atheists have some sort of meaning... It's just that their meaning seems ultimately pointless. I think your meaning is ultimately pointless too, whatever purpose your life has right now, does it carry on forever? You can guess that maybe god has some ultimate meaning for you, but you don't really know it, what are you going to be doing in heaven that will be so fulfilling?

If there is no God , then God is a concept that is only meaningful to me , therefore , it IS all about my feeling cold , yeah?

Yes... I do actually believe that whatever good intentions we might have, in the end as self-acting beings everything we do is about 'us'.

You speak of my faith like it is some dead religious lifestyle.
Its living , breathing, alive, WHO I AM.
My passion , my love , why i do what i do.
Why i love people so much , why i am hurt so much but always feel like it is worth it.

Do you believe your feelings are much different to people who are passionate for non-religious reasons or who are perhaps passionate due to belief in another god?

You also are not taking into account the love i feel for my God.
Im sure you must have loved before? Doing something for one you love is the greatest most fulfilling joy there is.

It depends what we're doing? I might love someone with all my heart but doing the dishes for them isn't going to feel as fulfilling as reading a book for my own enjoyment.

 

[Enteebee]

: I should have said His plan does not operate in the construct of time.

So god's plan has no influence over us?

 

[*TRUE*]

Ok, then once everyone has died and gone to heaven/hell, what is your meaning then? See, the problem for atheists isn't not having meaning as far as I can tell, you can't deny that atheists have some sort of meaning... It's just that their meaning seems ultimately pointless. I think your meaning is ultimately pointless too, whatever purpose your life has right now, does it carry on forever? You can guess that maybe god has some ultimate meaning for you, but you don't really know it.



Yes... I do actually believe that whatever good intentions we might have, in the end as self-acting beings everything we do is about 'us'.



Do you believe your feelings are much different to people who are passionate for non-religious reasons or who are perhaps passionate due to belief in another god?



It depends what we're doing? I might love someone with all my heart but doing the dishes for them isn't going to feel as fulfilling as reading a book for my own enjoyment.

Okay well there is a difference then.Washing dishes for someone because i love them IS more fufilling to me that doing something for my own enjoyment.
I DO know that there is some meaning beyond life here. I know it because i know my God....i do not expect a non-believer to understand.
I have faith that there is
There is SO much more.
Even when i think that there will be so much more to learn, i get excited.

 

[*TRUE*]

So god's plan has no influence over us?

On the phone , ill be back

 

[Enteebee]

Okay well there is a difference then.Washing dishes for someone because i love them IS more fufilling to me that doing something for my own enjoyment.

Is reading a book because someone you love told you to more fulfilling than reading one which you chose to read due to self-interest?

I DO know that there is some meaning beyond life here. I know it because i know my God....i do not expect a non-believer to understand.

Well see, I'd define a "meaning" in our conversation as some sort of acknowledged purpose which we act upon, not merely having some sort of purpose.

I mean if just having the purpose (but not knowing it) is 'meaning' then I guess I have just as much meaning in my life as you do (according to you), despite non-belief in God, so what's the point of belief exactly? The point is that you have to KNOW it to actively have the meaning. You don't know what your purpose will be in heaven (even though you're sure you'll have.. some sort of a purpose) so you have no more meaning than I do.

 

[*TRUE*]

Is reading a book because someone you love told you to more fulfilling than reading one which you chose to read due to self-interest?


Well see, I'd define a "meaning" in our conversation as some sort of acknowledged purpose which we act upon, not merely having some sort of purpose.

I mean if just having the purpose (but not knowing it) is 'meaning' then I guess I have just as much meaning in my life as you do (according to you), despite non-belief in God, so what's the point of belief exactly? The point is that you have to KNOW it to actively have the meaning. You don't know what your purpose will be in heaven (even though you're sure you'll have.. some sort of a purpose) so you have no more meaning than I do.

Yes , you were created for a purpose , as i was. But God said :Choose for yourself , there is only two places , and one decision: with me or without me. Choose.
So the meaning resulting from your purpose , depends on the decision you make.

Your meaning will result (as one of two things) from what you choose.

 

[Enteebee]

I don't think you've answered my question... If you don't know what your ultimate meaning is (i.e. what your purpose will be exactly in heaven, what this entails) how do you have any greater meaning than I do, if you are right and we all have this meaning god has given us? I don't believe I have such a meaning and you do, but effectively neither of us can access their meaning, as such our lives are effectively meaningless as far as we know, for we do not know our meaning (either because we don't believe we have one or because we are yet to know it).

 

[*TRUE*]

I don't think you've answered my question... If you don't know what your ultimate meaning is (i.e. what your purpose will be exactly in heaven, what this entails) how do you have any greater meaning than I do, if you are right and we all have this meaning god has given us? I don't believe I have such a meaning and you do, but effectively neither of us can access their meaning, as such our lives are effectively meaningless as far as we know, for we do not know our meaning (either because we don't believe we have one or because we are yet to know it).

Enteebee this is really hard , ive got the flu and u arent using paragraphs ,
It comes down to faith.
Trusting without knowing in your 'head'.
Do you agree that there is likely forces that we do not see and cannot test in this universe?

Ultimate meaning? To be with God.