Does God exist? (16 Viewers)

[squiresshane990]

Uh, im pretty sure it is. And to answer his question, yes, yes he does.

 

[Slidey]

tbh I wonder how many people know how carbon 14 dating works , or even that there are other methods of dating.

Carbon 14 is an isotope of carbon with a known half-life. This means that we know that after 5,730 years, half of the carbon-14 isotopes in a piece of material will have decayed into nitrogen-14. This means the function is exponential, so we can easily calculate ages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

This is not the only method used, though, which is why we can trust it; the various dating methods agree with each-other. I believe carbon dating is only really viable back 60,000 years.

Other methods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoluminescence_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_hydration_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_track_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-argon_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-lead_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubidium-strontium_dating

The thing to note is that it's fairly impossible for all of these methods, which are generally found at opposite ends of science, to all be wrong. Certainly, they all give ages for things on Earth as being at the very least about 30,000 years old. So if the Bible is wrong about the Earth being 6,000 years old or whatever it is, what else is it wrong about? If it's not 6,000 years, than what's stopping it from being billions?

Indeed, the slower half-life isotopes allow us to see that the Earth is in fact billions of years old.

Now, once you consider that, you have to wonder what was happening on Earth all that time. If humans are only 6,000 years old (or even 600,000), that still leaves about 4.5 billion years where Earth was devoid of humans. Might it be possible that other life existed (as fossils indicate)? Might it be possible that over that utterly immense timeframe, those animals evolved? They certainly didn't stay static, so the only other explanation is that God killed them off every now and then and put down new ones, then killed those off, etc. Bit of a sadistic god if that's the case eh? Kudos to all the archaeological evidence he faked to shift the blame, too.

 

[squiresshane990]

Thus we have just unequivocally proven that god is a lie.

 

[*TRUE*]

tbh I wonder how many people know how carbon 14 dating works , or even that there are other methods of dating.

Just to clarify , i was not referring to scientifically literate people in the above.

 

[Enteebee]

Just to clarify , i was not referring to scientifically literate people in the above.

So you think if you don't know how carbon-14 works you should not accept the test results of peer reviewed scientists? Obviously just because an authority says something is true doesn't mean it is, but we only have scope for so much knowledge in our minds... I can't be an expert mechanic, if a mechanic tells me X is wrong with my car the best I can do is get a second opinion, I really just don't know that much about the inner workings of my car.

How do you 'know' things *TRUE*?

 

[*TRUE*]

So you think if you don't know how carbon-14 works you should not accept the test results of peer reviewed scientists? Obviously just because an authority says something is true doesn't mean it is, but we only have scope for so much knowledge in our minds... I can't be an expert mechanic, if a mechanic tells me X is wrong with my car the best I can do is get a second opinion, I really just don't know that much about the inner workings of my car.

Nah, NTB, that's not what i meant.
Creationists talk of the 'fallibility' of carbon 14 alot. I was musing whether people knew if other methods backed it up , etc.

 

[Enteebee]

Nah, NTB, that's not what i meant.
Creationists talk of the 'fallibility' of carbon 14 alot. I was musing whether people knew if other methods backed it up , etc.

argument from incredulity?

 

[Slidey]

Um, I don't think TRUE is even opposing carbon dating, NTB.

 

[*TRUE*]

argument from incredulity?

FOrgive me if i am wrong , but doesnt the argument from incredulity have to do with claiming a lack of knowlege implies a God? Like the God of the Gaps theory? I can't remember. Rings a bell.
I'm thinking that many people do not really learn about dating methods , so when 'faults' in the dating methods (which at first seems to imply that scientists could have the age of the earth- among other things wrong) are exposed.... !
I think one needs to have understanding of the way that carbon 14 is used , of its limitations, and its validations and i am saying that many do not.
I suppose people choose not to , but the fact remains that people will usually accept most things they are told from those they trust.

 

[Enteebee]

FOrgive me if i am wrong , but doesnt the argument from incredulity have to do with claiming a lack of knowlege implies a God? Like the God of the Gaps theory? I can't remember. Rings a bell.
I'm thinking that many people do not really learn about dating methods , so when 'faults' in the dating methods (which at first seems to imply that scientists could have the age of the earth- among other things wrong) are exposed.... !
I think one needs to have understanding of the way that carbon 14 is used , of its limitations, and its validations and i am saying that many do not.
I suppose people choose not to , but the fact remains that people will usually accept most things they are told from those they trust.

Do you think our dating techniques are fairly accurate TRUE?

 

[morning storm]

lets get this back on track.

god doesnt exist. anyone who thinks he does is more stupid than anyone who realises he doesnt.

i will not tolerate your beliefs because they are destructive to humanity as a whole

 

[Slidey]

FOrgive me if i am wrong , but doesnt the argument from incredulity have to do with claiming a lack of knowlege implies a God? Like the God of the Gaps theory? I can't remember. Rings a bell.
I'm thinking that many people do not really learn about dating methods , so when 'faults' in the dating methods (which at first seems to imply that scientists could have the age of the earth- among other things wrong) are exposed.... !
I think one needs to have understanding of the way that carbon 14 is used , of its limitations, and its validations and i am saying that many do not.
I suppose people choose not to , but the fact remains that people will usually accept most things they are told from those they trust.

I get the feeling you're sitting on the fence. You'd like to believe carbon-14 is accurate, because it makes logical sense, but if you do that then you can no longer take the Bible literally, and indeed scientists might be right about all the other things you're told are wrong by Creationism.

What a dilemma.

 

[squeenie]

lets get this back on track.

god doesnt exist. anyone who thinks he does is more stupid than anyone who realises he doesnt.

i will not tolerate your beliefs because they are destructive to humanity as a whole

Just how are they destuctive to humanity?

I don't believe in any religions, but that doesn't mean I don't respect them.

 

[*TRUE*]

lets get this back on track.

god doesnt exist. anyone who thinks he does is more stupid than anyone who realises he doesnt.

i will not tolerate your beliefs because they are destructive to humanity as a whole

You're a goose. Almost anything can be destructive to society - especially intolerant attitudes (like yours appears to be).

 

[*TRUE*]

I get the feeling you're sitting on the fence. You'd like to believe carbon-14 is accurate, because it makes logical sense, but if you do that then you can no longer take the Bible literally, and indeed scientists might be right about all the other things you're told are wrong by Creationism.

What a dilemma.

Tbh I am yet to find the passage of the bible that tells me the earth is 6000 years old.
I really do not have much education in creation science , so I can't say.
I suppose i should look into as soon as Ive got time , and work through the theories , see where i end up then.

 

[Enteebee]

Tbh I am yet to find the passage of the bible that tells me the earth is 6000 years old.
I really do not have much education in creation science , so I can't say.
I suppose i should look into as soon as Ive got time , and work through the theories , see where i end up then.

Tbh I am yet to find the passage of the bible that tells me the earth is 6000 years old.

They add up the ages.... of all the lineages mentioned in the bible....

 

[squeenie]

You're a goose. Almost anything can be destructive to society - especially intolerant attitudes (like yours appears to be).

That's right. Anything can be destructive to society. But that doesn't mean that it is.

Religion (like everything else) is capable of being destructive. Many catastrophic events in history can be attributed to religion. But is it fair to blame an entire institution for the actions of a minority of its members? Not every religious believer is an insane fundamentalist, you know. Not every religious believer strictly adheres to the traditions of their religion, either (such as Reform Jews).

I'll respect someone's beliefs, as long as they don't try to force them on me.

 

[Lentern]

lets get this back on track.

god doesnt exist. anyone who thinks he does is more stupid than anyone who realises he doesnt.

I believe there was a chap called Einstein whom believed in God, he didn't know what he was talking about did he? Another chap called Newton, obviously less intelligent than any athiest. What about Galileo? Was he as high as lucy in the sky when he said he believed in God or was he just going troppo?

 

[Enteebee]

Einstein did not believe in 'God'. But yeah for sure smart people can claim a belief in god, tbh I don't think they really do... but yeah they can claim it.

 

[Lentern]

Einstein did not believe in 'God'. But yeah for sure smart people can claim a belief in god, tbh I don't think they really do... but yeah they can claim it.

He didn't believe in any specific god you are right but he did believe the universe was created. That implies a godly force of some form does it not?