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Does God exist? (14 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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HotShot

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davin said:
well, you can't, though. 1 + 1 = 10 if we're in binary. So the simple statement of 1 + 1 is 2.
There have been studies that show it is more or less ingrained in us to identify between the ideas of 1, 2, and many, and shortly after, to be able to add or subtract up to 3.
But generally speaking, math is a human created construct to help us deal with the real world, and it works fine, but its not like 1 + 1 is a physical element, in its own right.
interesting to say that 1+1=2, is wrong.

how do judge that something is 1, is this completely relative from the person. in the sense how do know that it is whole? one person might same there is one apple, another might say that apple is not whole because its not part of a branch and thus makes up 1/10..
 

withoutaface

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1+1=2 is true in the established system of mathematics using the established set of axioms and the established notation, for bases greater than or equal to three.
 

davin

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where'd i say 1+1=2 is wrong? i just said its not an absolute truth...it requires on a basis of given rules we place upon math, along the lines of what withoutaface said

anyway, your second part is removed as soon as you deal with units...everyone would agree that one apple is, well, one apple
 

HotShot

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davin said:
anyway, your second part is removed as soon as you deal with units...everyone would agree that one apple is, well, one apple
one person say one apple is an apple without a branch, another says one apple is an apple with a branch
 

davin

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things have definitions. not everything is subjective. or can i say that an apple is a small furry creature thats mainly nocturnal and eats grubs? cuz, its subjective and all
 

crazyhomo

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HotShot said:
one person say one apple is an apple without a branch, another says one apple is an apple with a branch
you just contradicted yourself. if you are able to tell the difference between an apple and a branch, then they are seperate entities
 

HotShot

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crazyhomo said:
you just contradicted yourself. if you are able to tell the difference between an apple and a branch, then they are seperate entities
no, i think u missed my point, my point is in definition, one person's defintion of 1 maybe different to another's. one apple maybe an apple without a branch, whilse one apple maybe ab apple with a branch, but if you add up both they are not two. they are two and a bit.
 

davin

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no, definitions are specific. you CAN'T change it around. second, that doesn't acatually effect the workings of math, because you're dealing with different units.

1 apple + 1 apple is still 2 apples. If the units don't match up in those two apples being added, thne you can't add them. Just like how you can't add 2x and 3y
 

gerhard

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Re: alpha christians

this one is better


http://truechristian.com/



edit; hahah that cartoon is amazing. the argument against athiesm is that god exists, so athiesm must be wrong. amazing.
 

SashatheMan

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Re: alpha christians

Hybr!d said:
I just dont get one thing. How could you believe there is no god. I mean... I respect your decision but think about what your saying. In a scientific view how could Two huge rocks collide and make the planet we call today "EARTH".

Why is it that this planet is the only planet with a Ozone Layer to protect us from the Suns ray's for us to live in?

Why is it this planet has the perfect compostion of gases in the Atmosphere for us Humans to live in unlike any other planet?

Here are a few questions to ask your self!!

Also one more thing. How could something come out of nothing. Eg: Where did those huge rocks come from that collided to make earth and any other planet?

As Scientists say: We started of as a Bacteria or something along those lines.

How could Bacteria make our Body and make the whole Earth today we live on. How could it make water? How could it make so wide variety of Animals, Pests, Viruses we have today? How could bacteria make one of the most complex thing in the world DNA?

Once again I refer to my point how could something me made out of nothing. Two rocks colliding makes bacteria now? Thats a first.

when you say something is made from nothing, thats not exactly true, if you follow the scientific thinking.

but then i can ask yuo, how can god make something out of nothing.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Re: alpha christians

In a scientific view how could Two huge rocks collide and make the planet we call today "EARTH".
erm... err... *sigh*

Why is it that this planet is the only planet with a Ozone Layer to protect us from the Suns ray's for us to live in?
Why are the sun's rays even dangerous to us? God's such a jerk.

Also one more thing. How could something come out of nothing. Eg: Where did those huge rocks come from that collided to make earth and any other planet?
Ok, I'm willing to admit I have no clue how they came here - now why does that mean I should pick a supernatural power as the answer? I don't know how my TV works, but I don't imagine that it's magic.

How could Bacteria make our Body and make the whole Earth today we live on.
The single celled organisms didn't make the WHOLE earth, just the living parts... anyway how did they do so? Evolution over billions of years... billions of years is a long time.

How could it make water?
Well the water you see came from the chemicals formed through nuclear reactions in stars landing on the earth then forming an small atmosphere. But I'm not exactly a genius of this field, why don't you look up the scientific answer?

How could bacteria make one of the most complex thing in the world DNA?
You know what else is complex? A single atom. Natural things are complex, that does not mean in any way that they were created. Anyway look up the literature for yourself, you're clearly misinformed...


How could it make so wide variety of Animals, Pests, Viruses we have today? How could bacteria make one of the most complex thing in the world DNA?
Once again I refer to my point how could something me made out of nothing. Two rocks colliding makes bacteria now? Thats a first.
Hybr!d... let me ask you something, why do you think all of these scientists... are wrong? I'm not arguing from majority opinion, these people have very good justified reasons for believing what they do (much better than your own I am sure), they've spent years perfecting their knowledge of their field, they've come to the same conclusions as hundreds of thousands of other scientists... from all sorts of backgrounds... using all sort of different methods...

What I'm getting to here is, that there's so many different independant lines of inquiry into the question that all come to roughly the same answer, using science, with no bias (they don't collude).......... why do u think they're ALL wrong?

edit: less cursing now.
 
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ur_inner_child

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I don't know how you remain calm at a post like that ntb.

I got several brain explosions from reading that one
 

davin

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Re: alpha christians

Not-That-Bright said:
Why are the sun's rays even dangerous to us? God's such a jerk.
great answer

ok, to explain everything up to the formation of the earth (i'm astrophysics, not biology, so i'll leave that part to someone else)

we started off with hydrogen gas (90+%), primarily, with some helium, deuterium, and a little lithium (very little)

thanks to gravity, the gas condensed in some areas of space. in some areas, it would condense with a large enough mass that the pressure at the center of it was enough to allow fusion to occur, first making helium from hydrogen, and from there progressing up through higher and higher element masses. when something has enough mass to have fusion take place, we call it a star.
for smaller elements, fusion releases energy. in other words, putting two hydrogen atoms together causes energy to be released. This is directly related to Einstein's E=mc^2. When a significant amount of helium has been made, the star will then move up to the next element....i believe generally going to Berylium, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, etc. The heaviest element that can be formed this way is Iron, because energy is needed to make anything heavier than Iron.
At this point, two things happen. A smaller star, such as the Sun, will start to release the outer layers, releasing elements up to iron back out into the universe and then shrink down itno a white dwarf. Significantly larger stars explode in what is called a supernova. The extraordinarily high energies involved in a star's explosion are the source for the energy to create all elements heavier than iron.

Now, the first generation of stars couldn't have had planets like the earth because at that time, the universe didn't contain anything to make a terrestrial planet with. However, we're in approximately the 3rd generation of stars now, and so by now there has been time for the elements that the earth needs to have been made by the two processes discussed above.


As for the formation of the earth itself, a cloud of gas and particles will, in time, develop a spin to it, leading to the material forming a disk. at the center is where the mass density is greatest, and here is where the star forms. further out on the disk, small particles continuously collide and clump together over time, leading to the formation of planets. so its not "two rocks hit together" but many many many small particles all accumulating over time.
In the inner solar system, the solar wind from the sun was able to blow away most of lighter elements, such as hydrogen and helium, so we're left with primarily heavier elements, nitrogen, carbon, oxygen, etc. In the outer solar system, the solar wind is weaker and so gases remained there long enough that masses could form that would be big enough that they could hold the light gasses in their gravity, and so the gas giants were formed.
Further out yet are the most distant elements, which include the Oort Cloud and the Kuiper Belt (of which Pluto is a member). these objects were formed at the birth of the solar system, and tend to be rock and ices (both water ice, and other ices, such as carbon dioxide). A good example of these objects are comets.

At this point in the solar system's lifespan, comets are relativly rare, as are other objects that cross the paths of the planets. However, in the early solar system, there were a great many and impacts were common, and an early earth would have been constantly bombarded. From these numerous impacts of comets and other objects from the outer portions of the solar system came the water that the earth now has, as those objects are a good source of water.



as for why the earth is the only planet in our solar system we know of that can support life....if the sun were less luminous, Venus could, and if Mars was the size of the earth, it feasibly could as well. To say "well, why's the earth the place that has life" is the same as to say "why are my keys in the last place i looked?"
we're on the earth because it IS the life-supporting one...but had it been mars instead we'd be there going "why is mars the only planet that has life?
 

crazyhomo

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Re: alpha christians

Hybr!d said:
I just dont get one thing. How could you believe there is no god. I mean... I respect your decision but think about what your saying. In a scientific view how could Two huge rocks collide and make the planet we call today "EARTH".

Why is it that this planet is the only planet with a Ozone Layer to protect us from the Suns ray's for us to live in?

Why is it this planet has the perfect compostion of gases in the Atmosphere for us Humans to live in unlike any other planet?

Here are a few questions to ask your self!!

Also one more thing. How could something come out of nothing. Eg: Where did those huge rocks come from that collided to make earth and any other planet?

As Scientists say: We started of as a Bacteria or something along those lines.

How could Bacteria make our Body and make the whole Earth today we live on. How could it make water? How could it make so wide variety of Animals, Pests, Viruses we have today? How could bacteria make one of the most complex thing in the world DNA?

Once again I refer to my point how could something me made out of nothing. Two rocks colliding makes bacteria now? Thats a first.
this logic never works for me. you say this world is too perfect to have been an accident. therefore it was designed. therefore there is a designer, god...but surely god is too perfect to have been an accident. therefore he was designed. therefore there was a designer of god. and it just keeps on going
 

stainmepink

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Re: alpha christians

davin said:
great answer

ok, to explain everything up to the formation of the earth (i'm astrophysics, not biology, so i'll leave that part to someone else)

we started off with hydrogen gas (90+%), primarily, with some helium, deuterium, and a little lithium (very little)

thanks to gravity, the gas condensed in some areas of space. in some areas, it would condense with a large enough mass that the pressure at the center of it was enough to allow fusion to occur, first making helium from hydrogen, and from there progressing up through higher and higher element masses. when something has enough mass to have fusion take place, we call it a star.
for smaller elements, fusion releases energy. in other words, putting two hydrogen atoms together causes energy to be released. This is directly related to Einstein's E=mc^2. When a significant amount of helium has been made, the star will then move up to the next element....i believe generally going to Berylium, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, etc. The heaviest element that can be formed this way is Iron, because energy is needed to make anything heavier than Iron.
At this point, two things happen. A smaller star, such as the Sun, will start to release the outer layers, releasing elements up to iron back out into the universe and then shrink down itno a white dwarf. Significantly larger stars explode in what is called a supernova. The extraordinarily high energies involved in a star's explosion are the source for the energy to create all elements heavier than iron.

Now, the first generation of stars couldn't have had planets like the earth because at that time, the universe didn't contain anything to make a terrestrial planet with. However, we're in approximately the 3rd generation of stars now, and so by now there has been time for the elements that the earth needs to have been made by the two processes discussed above.


As for the formation of the earth itself, a cloud of gas and particles will, in time, develop a spin to it, leading to the material forming a disk. at the center is where the mass density is greatest, and here is where the star forms. further out on the disk, small particles continuously collide and clump together over time, leading to the formation of planets. so its not "two rocks hit together" but many many many small particles all accumulating over time.
In the inner solar system, the solar wind from the sun was able to blow away most of lighter elements, such as hydrogen and helium, so we're left with primarily heavier elements, nitrogen, carbon, oxygen, etc. In the outer solar system, the solar wind is weaker and so gases remained there long enough that masses could form that would be big enough that they could hold the light gasses in their gravity, and so the gas giants were formed.
Further out yet are the most distant elements, which include the Oort Cloud and the Kuiper Belt (of which Pluto is a member). these objects were formed at the birth of the solar system, and tend to be rock and ices (both water ice, and other ices, such as carbon dioxide). A good example of these objects are comets.

At this point in the solar system's lifespan, comets are relativly rare, as are other objects that cross the paths of the planets. However, in the early solar system, there were a great many and impacts were common, and an early earth would have been constantly bombarded. From these numerous impacts of comets and other objects from the outer portions of the solar system came the water that the earth now has, as those objects are a good source of water.



as for why the earth is the only planet in our solar system we know of that can support life....if the sun were less luminous, Venus could, and if Mars was the size of the earth, it feasibly could as well. To say "well, why's the earth the place that has life" is the same as to say "why are my keys in the last place i looked?"
we're on the earth because it IS the life-supporting one...but had it been mars instead we'd be there going "why is mars the only planet that has life?
if i could rep i'd rep you ten fold. i agree with you 100%. its a much better explaniation for Hybrid's questions, than

"god created everything. like .. duh. and i'm totally right because god exists and is good. DUH. the proof is in the bible! a book written 2000 yrs ago by a bunch of crackheads who worshipped a carpenter. you know, the carpenter who walks on water, like jesus yeah!!!! JESSUSSS!!!! fuck your so called "atoms"! JESUS is the wayyyyyyy"
 
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davin

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Re: alpha christians

thanks gobaby, i was wondering if anyone would bother to read that much....lol
 

davin

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Re: alpha christians

well it also wasn't directed toward you
 

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