ClockworkSoldier
Clockwork Army
Maybe we are the effects of such incest and are infact all walking birth defects? Would explain a lot.
As I said, it was a very simple explanation of something I can't be bothered typing out at this time. Sorry
.
Does God exist? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter MoonlightSonata
- Start date
As I said, it was a very simple explanation of something I can't be bothered typing out at this time. Sorry
.
Iron
Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2004
- Messages
- 7,765
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2004
If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
pinkyforce7
Member
Whats unbelievable about that?
I'm an agnostic, but lets see here..
lets say Adam and Eve had 4 children, 2 boys and 2 girls (which of course they didn't, they had dozens and dozens of children).
those children pair up and each couple have 4 children, and then this happens again and again.
lets say that the average age of having these children is 30 years old.
it would take around 1000 years to produce a population of 6 billion.
besides, according to the bible all the human race apart from Noah and his family was wiped out in the flood, so the human race kind of stemmed from him as well.
They probably had God's master DNA for the human race. When you think about it, all the races of the earth began with them. They would of had the entire spectrum of genes, so the defects wouldn't have occured.. i think?
veloc1ty
~
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2007
- Messages
- 1,409
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2008
You're setting up a false dichotomy between evolution occuring and an afterlife existing. If you're going to dispute the existence of an afterlife, at least do it with arguments that make sense.
Isboredofstudy
New Member
'The wise man said to abraham 'Let my brothers know, and they will surely be saved'. Abraham replied 'If they do not believe the scriptures, not even the angels will make them believe'.
(something to that effect).
Your either in it or your not. Nothing but yourself can save you. (Personally, i hate it all, and i'll figure it out someday).
ClockworkSoldier
Clockwork Army
You fail to detect the humour in that post, but nevermind.
Besides, the afterlife as is accepted in mainstream western societies is an image created by Christianity and religions formed around the same or similar ideoligies (not saying that other religions have vastly different notions of an afterlife). So therefore, if we decended from apes, that would negate the existance of Adam and Eve (and presumably God), heaven and indeed the conventional hell.
veloc1ty
~
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2007
- Messages
- 1,409
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2008
Many denominations denounce literal creationism and can be considered compatible with the theory of evolution. Even were this not the case, one tenet of a set of beliefs being false doesn't immediately and conclusively falsify the rest.
ClockworkSoldier
Clockwork Army
Never said that there isn't an afterlife, nor that one doesn't exist.
Just that the way christianity is structured, if something as vital as Adam and Eve never existed, the religion would fall in on itself. I'm just talking about Christianity XD.
Last edited:
There are other interpretations of Adam and Eve, not just literal creationism.
Riet
Tomcat Pilot
If you dont take the bible literally why believe any of it at all?
ClockworkSoldier
Clockwork Army
I second this notion.
Aren't you supposed to regard the bible as literal? As the only truth in a way?
pinkyforce7
Member
Not really. Take the book of revelations for example. The whole thing makes little sense and sounds like a bad acid trip. It's all symbolic and metaphorical and is supposed to describe the apocalypse and the second coming of Christ.
Think of the parables. They are merely stories intended to communicate a particular moral or idea in a way in which the Jews of 2000 years ago would understand. They are not literal at all.
You have to consider each section of the bible in it's specific context: e.g. The psalms were the songs and prayers of king David - "the valley of death" is not a literal place; Deuteronomy was the strict law given to the Jew's to try and turn them from their pagan Egyptian origins - it is not at all relevant for Christians today; Corinthians is a set of letters sent from Paul to the church in Corinth addressing specifically the issues that they faced etc.
Genesis in this instance, is the account of the beginning of earth and the human race. Those that were there around that time to experience what happened (Adam and his descendants) spoke a language that no longer exists (because of the tower of Babel) and were all wiped out apart from Noah in the flood. Supposedly Moses was the author of Genesis, and if he learnt of the beginning of the world from either information that was passed down for centuries or from visions and revelations in the same way John supposedly learnt of the apocalypse, it's very possible that Genesis could be largely symbolic and metaphorical as well.
Everyone must keep in mind translation as well. The bible has been translated, rewritten and changed any number of times since any of it's books were first composed. Certain verses in English can read very differently to how it was originally written in Hebrew etc. Anything in the bible could nearly mean anything, the best judgement could be made by considering each verse in reference to the context in which it was written. But even then, the thousands of Christian denominations reflect the many differences in interpretations of the Christian faith.
No, the bible certainly is not 100% literal.
BlackDragon
Active Member
Two main points in this round-a-bout of a discussion:
1. I think that it is ridiculous to think that if there was a god he would be percievable for humans, and present himself in human terms; and also that he would communicate with us and create rules for us to live by, and judge us. It is so indicative of our human-centred view of the world that we think everything revolves around us. I think religion as it exists today is extremely anthropocentric (human centred) and completely fallacious in that regard. Also, it largely a social product that most westerners (whether they believe in god or not) percieve the world with such an outlook and with such moral terms. I think this is one of the reasons that it seems intuitive for us that there would be a god.
2. Secondly, humans poo and wee and sleep and die. We look for shelter and try to find food to eat. We are territorial and fight each other. We hunt other animals and eat plants as well. We court each other and our lives are centred around mating and partners. We are completely apart of our environment and starve and die and live. It is a little more complex for us but ooh it looks like we are just like any other animal. No special god for us. Can't people see we are the same? At least in terms of the human centred God that is somewhat central to our cultural outlook and history, there certainly is nothing. When we pray we are just talking to ourselves.
The world is beautiful.
1. I think that it is ridiculous to think that if there was a god he would be percievable for humans, and present himself in human terms; and also that he would communicate with us and create rules for us to live by, and judge us. It is so indicative of our human-centred view of the world that we think everything revolves around us. I think religion as it exists today is extremely anthropocentric (human centred) and completely fallacious in that regard. Also, it largely a social product that most westerners (whether they believe in god or not) percieve the world with such an outlook and with such moral terms. I think this is one of the reasons that it seems intuitive for us that there would be a god.
2. Secondly, humans poo and wee and sleep and die. We look for shelter and try to find food to eat. We are territorial and fight each other. We hunt other animals and eat plants as well. We court each other and our lives are centred around mating and partners. We are completely apart of our environment and starve and die and live. It is a little more complex for us but ooh it looks like we are just like any other animal. No special god for us. Can't people see we are the same? At least in terms of the human centred God that is somewhat central to our cultural outlook and history, there certainly is nothing. When we pray we are just talking to ourselves.
The world is beautiful.
Name_Taken
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2009
- Messages
- 846
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2011
Why? Humans are the only life forms known who are capable of intellectualism, or the ability to even question the existence of an almighty power as you are now. Every other living thing focuses on what is directly in front of them, and simply experience the gift of life without questionining; why?
Just because it is human centred, hardly makes it fallacious. The Bible accounts for why humans are so different from other life and so special, we were created in Gods image and were blessed (also being the only life form granted the gift of free will).
Humans have morals, and can differenciate between what is right and wrong. These rights and wrongs often have nothing to do with the biological imperative of reproducing and advancing our own species at the expense of the others. We are able to show compassion, even to those who have caused harm against us. Also see 2nd paragraph above.
BlackDragon
Active Member
It is a mistake to think that we aren't the same as all other life just because of our particular ability to reason. An ability to reason is just a trait. All animals have the ability to do this at different levels. They also have other abilities much more than us. Humans stupidly think that intelligence is the be-all-and-end-all. It is the simple mistake of thinking that we are ontologically special that leads us along many wrong paths. Reasoning just means that we are trying to rationalise our experiences, and this dichotomy between the human world and animal world is just one of those rationalisations. But it is false. So very false.
Other beings do have the ability for empathy. And just because we have this human constructed morality that does not mean that there is a god? I'm not seeing the connection?
Anyway, to sum up..You are making a mistake if you think we are so different!
lol
Other beings do have the ability for empathy. And just because we have this human constructed morality that does not mean that there is a god? I'm not seeing the connection?
Anyway, to sum up..You are making a mistake if you think we are so different!
lol
Last edited:
Name_Taken
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2009
- Messages
- 846
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2011
The human is driven to accomplish things in life that are not necessary to the biological imperative that is the goal of all other species: reproduction.
The human is able to experience love, able to make informed decisions based on its predictions of the future. The human is able to appreciate greater ideals exist in its life than its need to have sex and is capable for self-sacrifice.
The very fact that humans endeavour to explain the natural world around them and appreciate it and comtemplate our role in the cosmos in the way that we do, sets us apart from other animals.
Haha I just noticed your sig, a degree in philosophy must help you no-end in arguements such as these ;D Is it a good subject BTW? I was thinking about doing Arts-Law with a major in philosophy, thats why I ask. Thanks
BlackDragon
Active Member
It is a great subject. One that everyone should be a part of. You'll really love it.
Last edited:
BlackDragon
Active Member
I think you'll find that our ultimate imperative is to reproduce.
Animals experience love. They make decisions. But once again you must realise that there is no connection between these things and the possible existence of a higher being
Doing those things does set us apart, in a way. But lots of other animals are set apart from us in many other ways. Once again, intellegence is not the ultimate end of life; it is just a trait. It is important to say that it is only because we have this trait that we attempt to rationalise our surroundings like this. Other sentient creatures rationalise, but in a different way.
Edit: We are cultured to feel that we are different from other beings but we really aren't.
Last edited: