Does God Exist? (3 Viewers)

[dark_angel]

there might not be a heaven, and god will possibly not have a face

the bible has too many contradictions for it to be considered as evidence of anything.

 

[dark_angel]

Yeah I know it was proposed by a Belgian Priest.

Hubble just showed that the speed with which distant galaxies are moving supports the Big Bang theory and then the background radiation really meant that the steady state theory couldn't work.

Of course there are problems with the Big Bang theories in that it involves a singularity (at least currently and most probably forever although if string theory is correct it couldn't be point like).

The debate between religion and science is mainly between those who are literal bible followers. Also what caused the big bang is disputed (interestingly there is a public lecture available for download from Stephen Hawkings website which brings in Imaginary Time to account for the creation). And if there is an "afterlife" interestingly there is the Omega Point, which would be a simulated afterlife, but that requires a Big Crunch (well it is possible with an accelerating universe but not likely) which is looking increasingly unlikely

lol after the big crunch there would be another big bang, there would be no "afterlife"

how do you know our universe wasnt created by a previous big-crunch?

but i agree that perhaps the cosmological constant will be too small to create a big crunch in this universe anytime soon. ie not enough gravity

 

[acmilan]

the bible has too many contradictions for it to be considered as evidence of anything.

I agree, but as i explained before so does scientific explanation. So which side am i supposed to take? The only thing that can help me choose is my faith.

 

[Xayma]

lol after the big crunch there would be another big bang, there would be no "afterlife"

how do you know our universe wasnt created by a previous big-crunch?

but i agree that perhaps the cosmological constant will be too small to create a big crunch in this universe anytime soon. ie not enough gravity

Actually there could be the afterlife before the big crunch It's called the Omega Point, where the computational power of the universe is infinite.

Unless the cosmological constant changes to become attractive no it will most likely keep expanding. Although through human intervention in theory it could be possible to reverse this and send the universe to a big crunch.

Of course it requires an intelligent civilisation in order to manipulate this cosmological computer to run. Possible but if they fail we won't know.

 

[skiguy_hsv]

the bible has too many contradictions for it to be considered as evidence of anything.

Is this something that you have actually researched and discovered yourself or have just heard someone say some time or made up yourself? Maybe you could care to enlighten us on one of these contradictions?

 

[ur_inner_child]

uh oh.

this thread is going to last for a long time

 

[budj]

What I find most strange is the fact that the Big Bang theory accepted by scientists actually supports the theory of creationism (possibly why the Pope supports it too)...it's also funny enough that the guy who suggested the big bang theory in 1927 (the original guy not the scientist that presented it) was a full blown Christian, a member of the catholic church, his name was George Lemaitre...a catholic monk...I know that Xayma (being a physics freak) will probably disagree and say that Edwin Hubble suggested the theory....well that is a common mistake...Hubble only presented the theory to the public...he presented it in 1929...2 years after Lemaitre suggested it (this information is actually a verified fact)

Here's what I mean:
the bible states that God created the universe...he said 'let there be light' and everything appeared out of vast emptiness. Unfortunately one of the fundamental laws of physics states that matter cannot be created out of nothing. Yet isn't it strange that the Big Bang theory is just that... 'something from nothing' (a big explosion, out of nowhere, acting as a catalyst for creating matter and its antimatter.)

But people fail to forget one important thing....God, Buddha, Yahweh, the singularity, the force, the father, mother nature are all the same thing....science and religion support the same truth----> pure energy (whether it is God or an explosion) is the power of creation

The Buddhanever prophecised about the start of the world in terms of energy. For a very excellent reason aswell.

 

[Keen]

The problem with the Bible is that it's just a mess of stories that make no sense, it can be interpreted so many different ways. On a basic value it's just like fairtytales trying to teach us lessons. But I mean I always say - I can't trust anything that has more flavours than icecream. I mean if God had half a wit (and I mean he's suppose to be smarter than you guys who can figure out) that problems between religions and interpretations of the same book cause problem. I mean my point is THE BIBLE IS OPEN TO MORE INTERPRETATION THAN THE ETIOPIAN CONSTITUTION. A idiot has the brains to fix this problem. If God has the power to help anyone wouldn't he just put a little effort into making ONE copy of his book and making sure it's written well?!?!

I believe God exists but that's an entirely different point, BUT I think religion is a cop-out. Do you see most of them are created in the Middle East in bad times, and helped control the weaker people, give them hope, keep them under control. And I find it disturbing that people believe just because they want to go to Heaven - that shouldn't be a good enough reason. And I find it awful that they think non-believers will go to hell (so you think all the Aboriginal people for example who didn't get to hear of the bible and still don't will go to hell?!? - sounds like something to keep one race of people at bay to my ears).

If God exists he would let us do what we want, if he wanted slaves he's create robots, he doesn't need to create people to tell other people that he exists - that's just stupid. He created us so we can enjoy this world and live freely and we keep our race going.

Religion is just plain and simply stupid. It's pretty much just a father figure in disguise. Those people don't need religion they need a PSYCHOLOGIST, nearly all the good things I've heard in church coming from God and religion can be simply explained in terms of psychology and the same benefits could be gotten from a good psychologist. I know some people need God but for me if you have inner strength and find yourself you'll find little use for religion (although religious people will say this is silly as we all need him). But we don't (at least religion), if you notice religious people (especially hard core ones) aren't any better off (usually a little worse off) than casual chrisitians or non-believers as a whole. If God wanted to show a little reward for his servants wouldn't he do some things to help his slaves? And don't say he's saving it for Heaven because this is just a cop-out to keep you good until you die, and is just illogical. If he's not going to reward you here and all why not just skip the middle man and stick the good people in heaven and bad people in hell (and I think he's smart enough to figure this out).

These simple arguments at SOME of the premises of christianity show for me at least that religion is just plain and simply silly. I think God exists but religion doesn't. And I don't think we really need to argue whether god exists or not but whether religion does as it's the important one we need to get people to either believe or get rid of.


PLEASE READ THE ABOVE. But note it's my opion and doesn't include Googled facts but I thikn it's a fair argument that I can defend well.


Keen

 

[joujou_84]

Is this something that you have actually researched and discovered yourself or have just heard someone say some time or made up yourself? Maybe you could care to enlighten us on one of these contradictions?

ull find them in the earlier part of the thread......i dont know if they are contradictions......but some ppl posted bible contradictions and i think thats wat dark angel is referring too.....

 

[joujou_84]

A idiot has the brains to fix this problem. If God has the power to help anyone wouldn't he just put a little effort into making ONE copy of his book and making sure it's written well?!?!

I believe God exists but that's an entirely different point, BUT I think religion is a cop-out. Do you see most of them are created in the Middle East in bad times, and helped control the weaker people, give them hope, keep them under control. And I find it disturbing that people believe just because they want to go to Heaven - that shouldn't be a good enough reason. And I find it awful that they think non-believers will go to hell (so you think all the Aboriginal people for example who didn't get to hear of the bible and still don't will go to hell?!? - sounds like something to keep one race of people at bay to my ears).

If God exists he would let us do what we want, if he wanted slaves he's create robots, he doesn't need to create people to tell other people that he exists - that's just stupid. He created us so we can enjoy this world and live freely and we keep our race going.








Keen

care to enlighten us abt all the different religions created in the middle east to control ppl....and btw god gives us free will.....r u eva forced to do anything by god...no u have free will, so ur comment is irrelevant..

 

[dark_angel]

Is this something that you have actually researched and discovered yourself or have just heard someone say some time or made up yourself? Maybe you could care to enlighten us on one of these contradictions?

kindly refer to the attachment

 

[physician]

. If God has the power to help anyone wouldn't he just put a little effort into making ONE copy of his book and making sure it's written well?!?!

(so you think all the Aboriginal people for example who didn't get to hear of the bible and still don't will go to hell?!? - sounds like something to keep one race of people at bay to my ears).

If God exists he would let us do what we want, if he wanted slaves he's create robots, he doesn't need to create people to tell other people that he exists - that's just stupid. He created us so we can enjoy this world and live freely and we keep our race going.

. Those people don't need religion they need a PSYCHOLOGIST, nearly all the good things I've heard in church coming from God and religion can be simply explained in terms of psychology and the same benefits could be gotten from a good psychologist. Keen

First and formost, I am not christian. However i know that the bible was sent as one, and then different versions were formed by man, and some verses may have been changed as time changed (this is info that i have obtained from christians themselves). And have u heard of the Quran? This Book is a revelation from God, and since it has been sent to the Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) approximately 1400 years ago, Not one word has been changed and u will find an original copy in a museum (In Tashkent Ozbakistan... not sure about the spelling)

On the note of Aboriginal people, well i'm not sure about christians, but for a muslim, if one is in serach of the truth, or hasn't heard of a religion that has been reveled like Christianity Islam or Judaism they can not be held accountable, becuase the message has not reached them, isn't it logical. As long as they are in search of the truth, and continue this search, then why should they enter hell. I'm pritty sure chrsitans share this opinion, not sure, any christains out there want to give me their opinion?

"If he wanted slaves he'd create robots", built robots don't have minds to think and decide. Life is a test, God knows what our actions are, however he does not decide them for us, that is why we have a mind of our own, God gives us a choice its a matter of what action we take in life that we are judged upon.

On the issue of a psychologist. Were does a psychologist go when they need advice, care or the so called psychological reform. The amount of psycholgists that believe in God are probably equal to those that don't, who knows maybe even more.

And religion wasnt just for the poor or the weak like u stated. So why do so many rich people follow religion. Some of the first converts to Islam were infact rich. And if religion is for the poor or the weak, well so be it, how did the muslim army of approximately 300 soldiers defeat and army in the thousands, I'm sure psychology can't explain that. Surely psychology is what creates boundaries and interprets many aspcets in life that we can undertake in a good and sensible way, or why a certain action leads to goodness. However what makes a good psychologist? one that has a brain given to them by God. Religion is not merely believing, its also acting. Theres no good in saying i believe this and that, however u go out and commit murders every now and then.

 

[dark_angel]

First and formost, I am not christian. However i know that the bible was sent as one, and then different versions were formed by man, and some verses may have been changed as time changed (this is info that i have obtained from christians themselves). And have u heard of the Quran? This Book is a revelation from God, and since it has been sent to the Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) approximately 1400 years ago, Not one word has been changed and u will find an original copy in a museum (In Tashkent Ozbakistan... not sure about the spelling)

On the note of Aboriginal people, well i'm not sure about christians, but for a muslim, if one is in serach of the truth, or hasn't heard of a religion that has been reveled like Christianity Islam or Judaism they can not be held accountable, becuase the message has not reached them, isn't it logical. As long as they are in search of the truth, and continue this search, then why should they enter hell. I'm pritty sure chrsitans share this opinion, not sure, any christains out there want to give me their opinion?

"If he wanted slaves he'd create robots", built robots don't have minds to think and decide. Life is a test, God knows what our actions are, however he does not decide them for us, that is why we have a mind of our own, God gives us a choice its a matter of what action we take in life that we are judged upon.

On the issue of a psychologist. Were does a psychologist go when they need advice, care or the so called psychological reform. The amount of psycholgists that believe in God are probably equal to those that don't, who knows maybe even more.

And religion wasnt just for the poor or the weak like u stated. So why do so many rich people follow religion. Some of the first converts to Islam were infact rich. And if religion is for the poor or the weak, well so be it, how did the muslim army of approximately 300 soldiers defeat and army in the thousands, I'm sure psychology can't explain that. Surely psychology is what creates boundaries and interprets many aspcets in life that we can undertake in a good and sensible way, or why a certain action leads to goodness. However what makes a good psychologist? one that has a brain given to them by God. Religion is not merely believing, its also acting. Theres no good in saying i believe this and that, however u go out and commit murders every now and then.

there are countless ways to pray to god, the most essential aspect we must realise is that there is only one god, praying to idols, or stones, false rituals will bear no fruit.

there is only one god. languages, religions, race, creed are countless ie. it does not matter, because if you are sincerely praying to the one god these are not relevant.

 

[dark_angel]

Religion is not merely believing, its also acting

well said, but remember that perhaps the best religion focuses on one god alone

i have to say now, that if you worship gods and godessess, think to yourself, god created them, they themselves have no idea of gods infinite abilities, so y pray to them?

same as praying to statues.

praying TO statues themselves is stupid, unless the statues perhaps reminds you about the true god.



there are no multiple gods, there is only one TRUE god

 

[~Dreamer]

On the note of Aboriginal people, well i'm not sure about christians, but for a muslim, if one is in serach of the truth, or hasn't heard of a religion that has been reveled like Christianity Islam or Judaism they can not be held accountable, becuase the message has not reached them, isn't it logical. As long as they are in search of the truth, and continue this search, then why should they enter hell. I'm pritty sure chrsitans share this opinion, not sure, any christains out there want to give me their opinion?

they'll be judged according to their deeds.

 

[joujou_84]

there are countless ways to pray to god, the most essential aspect we must realise is that there is only one god, praying to idols, or stones, false rituals will bear no fruit.

there is only one god. languages, religions, race, creed are countless ie. it does not matter, because if you are sincerely praying to the one god these are not relevant.

u pray to god in general....however labbelling god and giving him human qualities or describing him means u have now created ur own god....

 

[~Dreamer]

u pray to god in general....however labbelling god and giving him human qualities or describing him means u have now created ur own god....

you cannot just create a god from giving a description when this god is the one that created those qualities.

 

[dark_angel]

u pray to god in general....however labbelling god and giving him human qualities or describing him means u have now created ur own god....

lol ur funny, when did i do any of what you said.

- god cannot be described and anyone who tries is a fool (this is clearly stated in my religion)

- i was saying that race, religion does not come into account if you pray to and believe in one god.

- how the hell did i create my own god, and how did i give him human qualities, thats the whole point of my arguement, u cant create god, there is only 1

- if your trying to contradict me, ur doing the shittest job of it

- please read what i have written carefully before u attack any arguements, it makes the process so much easier when you think before u type

- merry Xmas!!!!!!!! (santa is the devil, how else would u explain the red??)

 

[Keen]

Firstly I'm familiar with the Q'uran and I have more faith in this book as it is unchanged and there aren't that many 'versions' of it. It also seems more accepting of other faiths, I can tell you with a fair certainty that at least some Christian faiths aren't that kind to non-believers.
But to continue the Aboriginal hypotethical how about in present society where they've heard of christianity but still want to hold their beliefs. But that doesn't really matter.

As for the slaves issue - I still don't understad why he wants to test us (for me this is religious people telling us to be good or else we'll get punished - like a daddy), he could have created us perfect with free will (I know there's some argument against this) but I still don't understand why we need the test, when he creates us he should create us good, or be able to from the start know whether we'll be good or not.

As for the rich/poor thing - I'm not sure about that argument so I won't persue it that strongly.

As for psychology, 300 soldiers defeating an army is indeed a psychological battle, just think of some war movie where the general preps you up (that's psychological induced strength) believing that you can do it, whether you think that strength comes from your own muscles or from god's will etc.

As for the debate on what makes a good psychologist I don't know how that comes into it, really but you know whatever, just say Dr Phil for example. In my opinion many psychologist can't take care of themselves and are need of psychotherapy (and need to go to psychologists). Yeah I guess you make a good point that there are psychologists who are religious but I think you'll find (and I have a fair amount of experience but nothing to be anywhere near conclusive) that they are not strongly religious. I think most people who are strong aren't strongly religious, just looking at the people at my church most of them don't have good jobs, seem sort of pleasantly happy but not truly happy (debatable - but doesn't matter as you can get happiness through 'god' i.e. within yourself, and aren't high achievers. That makes me think that strong christians need god to find happyness within themselves and motivate them and aren't strong enough to do it from within. This is highly debatable but I think it's totally pollitically incorrect but I think it's quite true.

Busy - enough for now

Keen

 

[mr EaZy]

wow! 150 pages of jam packed action. and only this thread from me?
Reason:

i believe in god. but i have no way of proving it on this thread. How does one prove whats inside of oneself (when others are in cyberspace)?

btw: tashkent is in Uzbekistan