Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[mr EaZy]

sounds about right... would have to doublecheck your terminology and time frames though just to make sure....


just kidding!!

The OT was made up from different sources and held different meanings to various communities. My issue is that we as Christians (for the Christians out there that is) have adopted what are Jewish oral traditions and we have the hide to tell Jewish 'theologians' (cant think of the correct blanket term ATM) that they are wrong because of our interpretation of things eg the messiah/Jesus references in the OT.... funny thing is that the Christian groups who adhere to OT teachings (usually) are the racist/intolerant groups within Christianity but their main source (usually not the NT) of 'information' is Jewish!

LOL..makes me proud to call myself a Christian!

ummm wats OT again? and NT? i prob have to do more reading ?

 

[mr EaZy]

only in the hands of those who either dont believe or understand.....!!
and it should be pointed out that we are talking about the OT here.

not that it has anything to do with the thread topic BTW .....

yeah this thread was titled: "DOes god exist?" so that means that all those who believe in god have to stick together and try not to make the athiests make them look like idiots and vice versa ofcourse. (I believe in god- naturally :uhhuh: )

 

[acmilan]

ummm wats OT again? and NT? i prob have to do more reading ?

Old Testament/New Testament

 

[snapperhead]

yeah this thread was titled: "DOes god exist?" so that means that all those who believe in god have to stick together and try not to make the athiests make them look like idiots and vice versa ofcourse. (I believe in god- naturally :uhhuh: )

lol..I was actually referring to that its not a thread on the validity of the bible but rather on ones opinion on the question of the existence of God- well, more about trying to prove/disprove ones faith which by definition cannot be done but then again, the topic was set by a wannabe lawyer.....!!
(You should actually go back and read the first page..its quite amusing !!)
LOL

 

[Keen]

There's nothing wrong with saying that these are stories passed orally BUT you have to realise the inaccuracy. I'm a med student and I hear so many (smart) people talk absolute BS 'quoting' what they're doctor told them to do which any sane doctor wouldn't. This is something important to these people that they heard last week and they totally get the whole wrong idea.
This is why I think trusting these written texts of chinese whispers (which they are) just stupid. If God was so great and wanted us to believe in this text he would have made them kept properly (and maybe you can argue he gave these people special memory for his text - but unlikely).
It's OK not to take them literally but you'd be stupid to wright a metaphor or whatever that is open to 100 different interpretations when you're trying to tell people the most important news of their life.

I just don't get how you people can believe in religious texts, god is believable but the bible needs a little more.


Keen

 

[snapperhead]

There's nothing wrong with saying that these are stories passed orally BUT you have to realise the inaccuracy. I'm a med student and I hear so many (smart) people talk absolute BS 'quoting' what they're doctor told them to do which any sane doctor wouldn't. This is something important to these people that they heard last week and they totally get the whole wrong idea.
This is why I think trusting these written texts of chinese whispers (which they are) just stupid. If God was so great and wanted us to believe in this text he would have made them kept properly (and maybe you can argue he gave these people special memory for his text - but unlikely).
It's OK not to take them literally but you'd be stupid to wright a metaphor or whatever that is open to 100 different interpretations when you're trying to tell people the most important news of their life.

I just don't get how you people can believe in religious texts, god is believable but the bible needs a little more.


Keen

inaccuracy in what way? To modern Western science or inaccurate in the context that they were originally written/were told (ie their culture, their needs and their time)

Your response has actually answered your own questions. Reread what you wrote and you have answered (and some may say contradicted) your own statements!
ie

There's nothing wrong with saying that these are stories passed orally BUT you have to realise the inaccuracy

This is why I think trusting these written texts of chinese whispers (which they are) just stupid. If God was so great and wanted us to believe in this text he would have made them kept properly (and maybe you can argue he gave these people special memory for his text - but unlikely).
It's OK not to take them literally but you'd be stupid to wright a metaphor or whatever that is open to 100 different interpretations when you're trying to tell people the most important news of their life.

My question to you is "Where did God tell us to take the bible word for word?" or was that just 'man's' interpretation? And if it is interpretation, isnt that 'man's' right as apart of his faith to do that? (please excuse the gender exclusive language, but you know what I mean!)

As you are a med student and hear inaccuracies, I too hear inaccuracies when it comes to 'religion' (in its braodest context) but they are all based on interpretation are they not? Is that to say that we are both experts in our fields and can never be wrong? Or is it just interpretation?
More food for thought...

 

[Enlightened_One]

I think perhaps, that the whole point of faith is to believe in something without proof.

 

[soha]

yeah like u "have faith" in people and in things and ur religon is having faith in something

 

[snapperhead]

that has been my point all along..ppl trying to use science, criticising the bible, using random incidents etc are counteracting exactly what you both said!! You cannot prove the existence of God as it is a matter of faith......the two notions counteract each other as your proof is your faith and your faith is your proof. To say otherwise is the counteraction.....

 

[Keen]

I'm not quiet sure of your argument but I think I get the gist.
Yes no one says that you should take it word for word but crazy bible bashers who annoy the hell out of me, with thinking that unless I sacrifice my life to Jesus and spread God's word that I'm going to hell. I think I'm a good person, and I live by morals (which are nearly all in the bible and some in society) and I think in many circumstances I'm more honourable than many people who swear by this book, while maybe not as great as some (but that is a small minority).
I think people should believe in God, but nearly ignore the bible (or whatever text) just get the general gist of it like you did in grade six and live a good life and be kind to people and respect them etc etc. Which you don't even need to believe in God to do.
I'm sick of believers thinking they're better people than me because the truth of the matter is that in a few cases they are but in the majority they're on the same level or worse. They need to wake up to the modern world and not look for any great truth through the bible because there isn't any. The bible really doesn't offer you anything that you can't get out of society (or as I've said before your psychologist) anyway enough of this.


Keen

 

[MoonlightSonata]

..as your proof is your faith and your faith is your proof. To say otherwise is the counteraction.....

Faith is belief in something without proof. By definition faith is NOT proof.

 

[katie_tully]

Best quote for this was on CSI last night.

FATHER POWELL: You don't believe?

GRISSOM: In religion? I believe in God, in science ... in Sunday supper. I
don't believe in rules that tell me how I should live.

FATHER POWELL: Even if they're handed down by God?

GRISSOM: How many crusades were fought in the name of God? How many people died because of someone's religion?

FATHER POWELL: Fanaticism. Not religion.

GRISSOM: Semantics. They're still dead. I'm sorry about Ben, father.

FATHER POWELL: You still suffer like a catholic.

(FATHER POWELL also stands up.)

FATHER POWELL: Light bulb goes out other people fix it, get a new one. Light
bulb goes out for the Catholic he stands in the dark says, "What did I do
wrong?"

 

[Pace Setter]

Faith is belief in something without proof. By definition faith is NOT proof.

And who decides what constitutes as proof? Is there a set of rules written somewhere that decides what is proof, and what isn't?

 

[snapperhead]

Faith is belief in something without proof. By definition faith is NOT proof.

you have missed the point by quoting me out of context...*tut tut tut*
The thread topic is on the existence of God. People have been arguing there is no proof/physical eveidence and my point was/is that a believer does not need proof as their faith is their proof of the existence of God. If they didnt have faith, they wouldnt believe in God .: faith = proof to a believer

hence the stress on "your" in my original statement
ie ...as your proof is your faith and your faith is your proof.

 

[katie_tully]

St Johns... What an unfortunate uniform.

Anyway, off topic. Personally for me to have faith in something, I need to know it has rock solid foundations. It needs to be tangible. I need to be able to see it, and know that it wont fail me.
Thats why I dont believe in God.
I dont believe in religion, because it reminds me of some cult and I can't live my life abiding by rules apparently given by an entity i cant see.

 

[snapperhead]

St Johns... What an unfortunate uniform.

Anyway, off topic. Personally for me to have faith in something, I need to know it has rock solid foundations. It needs to be tangible. I need to be able to see it, and know that it wont fail me.
Thats why I dont believe in God.
I dont believe in religion, because it reminds me of some cult and I can't live my life abiding by rules apparently given by an entity i cant see.

Tullamore...what an unfortunate place.

back on topic...

Many people feel the same way (ie your points about faith) about faith in God...exactly the same way

but that is your belief and I for one will not criticise it!!

lol

 

[katie_tully]

Tullamore...what an unfortunate place.

you're so mean

Yeah.. I don't care what religion a person has and why.. Just don't beat me over the head with it at my doorstep...

I also think religion has no place in a public school, especially in high schools. I know our school has religious services and stuff, and especially in high school I think a student should have the right to decide whether theyre subjected to it or not.

 

[snapperhead]

you're so mean

Yeah.. I don't care what religion a person has and why.. Just don't beat me over the head with it at my doorstep...

I also think religion has no place in a public school, especially in high schools. I know our school has religious services and stuff, and especially in high school I think a student should have the right to decide whether theyre subjected to it or not.

lol...its better than Yeoval!

I doisagree with the religion has no place in a public school as that supposes that all state students are non-religious and therefore dont have the right to express their religion-just as you have the right to express your "non-religion"...yes they should have a choice (forcing people is kinda wrong) but Im sure your school doesnt force 'religion' upon you as it breaks the very aims that the state system was setup upon (Public Instruction Act)... I guess you may have to define your idea of a religious service and put it in context. Im sure you are not talking liturgies etc but rather "gatherings" (to use an all emcompassing term) that may have prayers etc (like ANZAC Day...they pray then but it doesnt make it a religious service.. or a rememberance for the victims of the Tsunami...again, not a religious service but prayers may be offered for the victims)
Does this make sense?

Agrees about the door knockers but then, that is what they do. Just say you are not interested (or a Catholic!) and they will go away!

 

[katie_tully]

Oh, they do. My principle is a raving lunatic. She made scripture compulsary unless you have a note. I'm 17 years old, I dont go to school to go to scripture. Fair enough if you want to go, fair enough if you dont.

Yeoval.. is.. awesome............

To put it into context, the stuff they are teaching is ridiculous. This bloke comes to school, says science proves nothing, tells us everything in science is a lie. then shows us a video of a scientific experiement, proving the flood created the grand canyon, and not weathering/erosion.
it's about then I got kicked out of scripture forever, too.

 

[acmilan]

Agrees about the door knockers but then, that is what they do. Just say you are not interested (or a Catholic!) and they will go away!

A nice sticker on the top of the door saying "Were Catholic so no preachers thankyou" works wonders in my house