Does God Exist? (4 Viewers)

[sub]

Our planet precisely positioned?? You just happen to be on this planet! One planet has to be positioned here, it could have been any planet. Either, way there was probably going to be a planet here

Moonlight, i must say...of all ur arguments thus far...that last one wasn't really that strong... u are basing ur comment off probability, which according to what we're discussing NOT a logical base for an argument... also, wilmo, by te same argument, ur reasoning for that as a reason for a god is unacceptable. maybe, to you, it is evidence, but it is NOT what these people are looking for...

Moonlight...ur argument was weakj, cos u went nowhere with it...so what if the planet was called X...the mere position of the planet being able to sustain life is highly unlikely...and the comment about there may have been a planet here anyway, really doesn't get u anywhere...but then again we're off the topic now...

 

[sub]

The typical definition of God is the ominpresent, omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe... according to believers?

yeah i know what MY definition is...i asked for YOUR definition...cos apparently my definition may be "biased"...and hence if i try to prove god, i will be shot down on the basis that "god only fits because of your definition"...try again pls?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Stop using the Bible!

[Anyone frustrated with Bible-quoters can quote this passage to stop people from irrelevantly quoting the Bible to show the existence of God] --

You cannot use the Bible to prove the existence of God. To do so is a fallacy called begging the question, or similarly, circular reasoning. It is this:

1. The Bible says God exists
2. How do we trust the Bible?
3. Because it is from the word of God, etc
4. How do we trust that it is the word of God?
5. The Bible says so
--
6. How do we trust the Bible?
7. Because it is from the word of God, etc
8. How do we trust that it is the word of God?
9. The Bible says so
10. How do we trust the Bible?
11. Because it is from the word of God, etc
12. How do we trust that it is the word of God?
13. The Bible says so
14. How do we trust the Bible?
15. Because it is from the word of God, etc
16. How do we trust that it is the word of God?
17. The Bible says so

ETC -- Circular reasoning. So believers, please stop using the Bible. Thankyou

 

[MoonlightSonata]

yeah i know what MY definition is...i asked for YOUR definition...cos apparently my definition may be "biased"...and hence if i try to prove god, i will be shot down on the basis that "god only fits because of your definition"...try again pls?

Well because I'm not claiming there is a God, I haven't defined it. Instead I have seen this view of what god is (omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe) and hit at it. For our purposes, I'd be fine with using that definition.

 

[sub]

hangon moonlight....if that's how u see it...maybe i can use the quran then to enlighten this thread? because i think i can prove that it is the word of god not through that method shown above? but then again u prolly wont believe me...which is sorta why i refrained from bringing in any verses from the beginning...

 

[sub]

Well because I'm not claiming there is a God, I haven't defined it. Instead I have seen this view of what god is (omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe) and hit at it. For our purposes, I'd be fine with using that definition.

ok...just clearing that up just in case i actually get somewhere and u guys shoot me down for the rong reasons
anyone else want to add to that defintion...ask moonlight first, as he started the thread...i dont want to assume too much...that's only if i actually get somewhere with it tho...

 

[Sophie777]

sub, would you but a billion dollars on the truth of your religion?

 

[sub]

i dont have a billion dollars, but yes i would...i have no doubt in the truth of my religion...but if i may ask...why with that question?

EDIT: note i am according to my religion not allowed to bet with money...i acknowledge that, but as a hypothetical, and given the scenario, as an example of my belief i said "yes"... i believe in it without a doubt...but due to my religion, i am not allowed to bet...not for money

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Moonlight, i must say...of all ur arguments thus far...that last one wasn't really that strong... u are basing ur comment off probability, which according to what we're discussing NOT a logical base for an argument... also, wilmo, by te same argument, ur reasoning for that as a reason for a god is unacceptable. maybe, to you, it is evidence, but it is NOT what these people are looking for...

Moonlight...ur argument was weakj, cos u went nowhere with it...so what if the planet was called X...the mere position of the planet being able to sustain life is highly unlikely...and the comment about there may have been a planet here anyway, really doesn't get u anywhere...but then again we're off the topic now...

Yeah that was badly written. Let me rephrase it like this:

You have 9 bacteria dishes. You place them in a line in front of a heater. The first 2 are so hot they just die. The last 6 are too far away and the bacteria ends up dead. The third dish is just in the right conditions. Let's say that soon, the bacteria thrives, and mutates and evolves into a micro-species of intelligent life. One member of this species remarks "we've been positioned exactly right! isn't that a miracle!" But of course it is simply one of the 9 bacteria dishes that were randomly placed in a line. It could have been any one of those dishes, but the fact is that one of them would have been in the right location anyway.

 

[rapier]

Nuh.

sub, would you but a billion dollars on the truth of your religion?

That's neither here nor there. Certainty is in no way related to correctness.

 

[Sophie777]

Because it is impossible for anyone to be sure of the truth of religion or even anything if they haven't seen it or experienced it. You can truly believe it is right but you cannot actually know. If you believe there is no small doubt that you are incorrect then you are dismissing the credibility of all other religions as no two could be correct. How could everyone who follows these religions be wrong? Are they misled? Don't they think the same about you?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

That's neither here nor there. Certainty is in no way related to correctness.

Tell Bush that

 

[rapier]

Yeah that was badly written. Let me rephrase it like this:

You have 9 bacteria dishes. You place them in a line in front of a heater. The first 2 are so hot they just die. The last 6 are too far away and the bacteria ends up dead. The third dish is just in the right conditions. Let's say that soon, the bacteria thrives, and mutates and evolves into a micro-species of intelligent life. One member of this species remarks "we've been positioned exactly right! isn't that a miracle!" But of course it is simply one of the 9 bacteria dishes that were randomly placed in a line. It could have been any one of those dishes, but the fact is that one of them would have been in the right location anyway.

Your reasoning is sound, but there's nothing to stop someone on the other side of the argument saying "But its a miracle that they didn't all die" or what not. A line of petri dishes is hardly as complex as the creation of the universe.
The argument isn't particularly convincing for either side.

Sophie: The credibility of religion is totally separate to the existence of god. Religion does not neccessarily equate to god.

Moonlight: I'd prefer to kick him in the head.

 

[Kleaver]

firstly mate, all religions have a god...unless u claim athiesm to be a religion too... and no, y DO think urs is the right one and that u follow the right god, but u DONT think people are "ignorant shitheads" - merely misguided...but that's not what's being debated here

Well if you're going to get all gay on me, the 'god' I was referring to was the christian one. You know the one that shagged Mary and had the big headed son? And no, not all religions follow god. Hinduism for example, is a polytheistic religion, which for you idiots, means that they believe in many gods. By being a christian you are saying that that's a load of bollocks because YOU believe there is ONE god. Thus, god can not possibly exist, and that IS what is being debated here.

The rest of that quote will have to go un-debated as I have no idea what you were trying to say. Perhaps it would be a good idea if you layed off the marijuana for a few hours before trying to come up with an argument.

again, not what is being debated here. ther debate is "is there a god" or "does he exist" - same thing really... not "which is the better religion"...

If you have another read of my post when you are sober, you will see that I was not debating that there was a religion that's better than all the rest. I was saying that all religions are bullshit. They all contradict each other and hence I choose to believe that they all suck the nut.

YOU look up to someone too, mate...its in ur nature to - it's human nature...the theists believe in god...u obviously dont... however, u DO idolise something, be it a person, a statue, or aliens...so ur argument about "kissing someone's arse" places u in that category too... only u kiss someone who is equal to u... (using ur argument...however, that is NOT how religion is viewed...)

No I don't.

Better luck next time, tiger.

 

[Sophie777]

Well he was trying, can you think of a better example than petri dishes? I thought it proved his point well.

 

[sub]

well...if ur looking at it that way, then it is a subjective position, and i do not doubt that. i DO believe my religion is right. from the evidence that i have encountered i found that islam explains things better than christianity...honestly i haven;t looked at judaism. the question about how could everyone be wrong seems silly to me, but im prolly not looking at it from the same perspective, especially cos u guys dismissed that idea to claim ur religion right in the first place, equally that argument should not be allowed to discuss whether one religion is "better" than the other.
i believe they are misled, and i also believe that they would feel that way about me...but that doesn't go to proving that im wrong or right...from what i have gathered i believe that islam is the best of the three major religions around today. note it is a subjective comment, and i DONT want to discuss it namely cos its not the topic to be discussed here...also i dont want to start any fights by trying to prove what i believe in is better than urs. it IS purely subjective...leave it at that...

 

[Sophie777]

Right then if it is all subjective. You could be wrong.

 

[rapier]

And no, not all religions follow god. Hinduism for example, is a polytheistic religion, which for you idiots, means that they believe in many gods. By being a christian you are saying that that's a load of bollocks because YOU believe there is ONE god. Thus, god can not possibly exist, and that IS what is being debated here.

That's really not worth arguing, Kleaver. A shipwreck has less holes than that argument.

Sophie: I didn't debate that it 'proved' his point, but was saying that it could just as easily be used to 'prove' the reverse side of the argument. Hence, unconclusive.

 

[Sophie777]

Kleaver, you aren't going to win the argument by calling people idiots for what they believe. You could be wrong, you know. What if there was one God.. then you would be the idiot.

 

[Kleaver]

Kleaver, you aren't going to win the argument by calling people idiots for what they believe. You could be wrong, you know. What if there was one God.. then you would be the idiot.

Luckily for me, there isn't. So have a nice life. I hope you enjoy the fruits of idiocy.