Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[superbird]

In conclusion, "Not-That-Bright" must lack the God-gene

 

[Not-That-Bright]

aka - Moron-Gene, sorry it had to be said
perhaps there's a connection between this gene and people that believe in santa claus, get tricked by telemarketers etc etc?

sorry i'm being an asshole i take it back lol

 

[AsyLum]

That is fundamental to your religion, you're obviously not a fundamentalist. I hate your notion of religion where you simply pick what you want to believe, the parts you don't want to believe from all different religions to come to whatever conclusions you want. Instead of picking the parts which you like the sound of & want to believe, why not pick it apart and chose the parts that are logically reasonable?

I think to suggest that you cannot pick and choose, THEN as a method of criticism, in turn, YOU pick and choose sounds somewhat contradictory does it not? Do you not pick and choose what you want to believe? Or do you suddenly come to this amazing logical path, in which everything therefore ends in 'I Am Right' ?

Christianity DOESN'T follow logic wether you would like it to or not, the TRUTH is not subjective and i feel we have a right to say it doesn't follow logic and seems wrong.
There is no reason for a god to become a man then kill himself to save us from himself which he knew he was already going to do, it doesn't make logical sense.

Firstly, to assume that it does not follow logic, begs to ask, how can normal people grasp the concepts and notions and beliefs behind the religion? Christianity has rituals, rituals which in a relatively contextual and historical situation, had no semblance of knowledge of science as we have today. It was based on morality, rather than as a charter, or aetiological inquiry and explanation of beliefs upon the real world.

Secondly, to notion that the truth is objective, for logic as it seems would mean that if it is not subjective it MUST be objective, is ludicruous to say the least. You say the TRUTH is not subjective, you assume that the 'truth' lays within another realm, applicable to all, rather than created by a few. This therefore suggests that existence of another plane, for it cannot exist upon our plane, as that would mean that there is a taint of individual subjectivity and perceptions which would bias it. Therefore this second, external plane must therefore exist. Now tell us kind sir, what are you're thoughts upon the existence of this separate plane, of course this is using you're very logic. Does it make logical sense for a man to murder his family out of boredom, are emotions rational and logical?

Yes self-reflection, and searching for the answers is important, however you will see that catholicism is not built upon finding the truth, it is built upon deception and lies. Ministers 'remove the demons' from people and tell the people in the crowd that jesus told him that man had demons and the large crowd simply sits there nodding their heads.

It is built on deception and lies, yes that is an interesting viewpoint. Tell me, have you ever read a newspaper, an article, anything with a notion of writing from a certain perspective. The problem with language is that it can never entirely convey what we mean, and even when trying to convey such notions, and appear 'objective' one cannot but entrust upon the writing their respective bias and perspective. You, by writing upon this forum and expressing your views, no matter what they may be, have put forward a subjective response, within which you have described YOUR position.

Please, if you wish to have a logical debate, present to me a logical explanation rather than the various statements which i fail to see have any real backing.

 

[iambored]

The thing that got me pissed off when I went to Catholic mass, was the fact that it resembled a cult more than a religion. The pamphlets they handed out told us those who do not accept god will and I quote "burn", whilst all good catholics should pray for them.

I got told I couldn't use the holy water when I walked in because I'M NOT CATHOLIC.

what (or what type.. if it wasn't actually catholic) of catholic church was it? it sounds a little extreme to me.

 

[grk_styl]

i believe that god exists as a superhuman powerful being. I've had circumstances occur in my life where I've turned to my faith and it's really gotten me through difficult times. I feel that i NEED to believe in order to get through difficult times and also to be thankful for the happy times.

I'm Greek orthodox, and have grown up as one...not in a STRICT religious family, butmy parents have always lit holy candles in our home, drank holy water, followed religious festivties, and went to church. Althogh, i do not believe that you HAVE to go to Church every Sunday to be considered "religious".

I believe in Heaven and Hell and tht God chooses where someone goes when they die. I went to a Catholic School, and I often questioned the Catholic religion and also CHristianity, and I quite often question the orthodox religion too. I don't hav any answers, and I will most likely never know the answers to my questions.

By believing in God, I feel safe. That may sound weird, but my faith gets me through a lot of things.

I live by this statement: "I believe in the faith and not the institution". There are many aspects of the orthodox church that i don't agree with, yet I still am an orthodox christian, and I still believe in God.

just my two cents. my thoughts may be neive and stupid to some people, but they're my beliefs, and i don't expect anyone to understand, coz not even i understand myself

 

[joujou_84]

The thing that got me pissed off when I went to Catholic mass, was the fact that it resembled a cult more than a religion. The pamphlets they handed out told us those who do not accept god will and I quote "burn", whilst all good catholics should pray for them.

I got told I couldn't use the holy water when I walked in because I'M NOT CATHOLIC.
See my signature for possibly the most redundant thing I have ever heard.

I dont need or want any of you to pray for my soul. Thank you all the same. Here's an idea, keep your religion to yourself and don't condemn those who don't believe in it, to hell.

ur not catholic therefore u are not part of that religion. when u go to their churches expect their rules and their sermons and their preaching. u cant tell them how to run their religion. their not there to accomodate ur views, if ur not happy with wat they have to say, then dont go to their churches. if u truly believe that u are correct and u wont burn in hell then wat they say shouldnt bother u. u shouldnt give a damn. anyway its their holy water and u dont believe in their religion therefore u shouldnt use their water. y r u so upset about not being allowed to use the water of a religion u dont believe in? and anyway in a religion they can condem who they like, u cant tell them who they can and cant condem.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think to suggest that you cannot pick and choose, THEN as a method of criticism, in turn, YOU pick and choose sounds somewhat contradictory does it not? Do you not pick and choose what you want to believe? Or do you suddenly come to this amazing logical path, in which everything therefore ends in 'I Am Right' ?

I do not pick and choose i was using it as an example of how pointless it is to have a faith yet only pick and choose.
My main point is that you have accused me of being arrogant in my beliefs because i claim to know more than god, however you then say you can believe in some things but not others?
I think it's funny how you can pick up a book and choose to believe the parts you like but ignore the rest saying they're just metaphors, lies, however all your bits are the truth.

Firstly, to assume that it does not follow logic, begs to ask, how can normal people grasp the concepts and notions and beliefs behind the religion? Christianity has rituals, rituals which in a relatively contextual and historical situation, had no semblance of knowledge of science as we have today. It was based on morality, rather than as a charter, or aetiological inquiry and explanation of beliefs upon the real world.

There are some parts that are based upon morality, these are the more humanist parts such as 'thou shalt not kill, be nice to one another' and of that, the rest is about gods and really quite weird stuff... you don't really need a book to teach you morality.

Secondly, to notion that the truth is objective, for logic as it seems would mean that if it is not subjective it MUST be objective, is ludicruous to say the least. You say the TRUTH is not subjective, you assume that the 'truth' lays within another realm, applicable to all, rather than created by a few. This therefore suggests that existence of another plane, for it cannot exist upon our plane, as that would mean that there is a taint of individual subjectivity and perceptions which would bias it. Therefore this second, external plane must therefore exist. Now tell us kind sir, what are you're thoughts upon the existence of this separate plane, of course this is using you're very logic. Does it make logical sense for a man to murder his family out of boredom, are emotions rational and logical?

I was talking about the truth as in wether there is a God or not, there must either be a god or not.
As for the man murdering his family out of boredom, that situation is logical. If you could study that persons entire life, learn everything about their brain, how it works, then focus upon that moment you would understand logically why they killed their family.

It is built on deception and lies, yes that is an interesting viewpoint. Tell me, have you ever read a newspaper, an article, anything with a notion of writing from a certain perspective. The problem with language is that it can never entirely convey what we mean, and even when trying to convey such notions, and appear 'objective' one cannot but entrust upon the writing their respective bias and perspective. You, by writing upon this forum and expressing your views, no matter what they may be, have put forward a subjective response, within which you have described YOUR position.

You're trying to use the idea of subjectivity and perspectives to prove that religion isn't built upon lies? because they have constructed what they see as the truth?
If that's what you're saying then I won't argue with it but it seems a pretty loose foundation for believing in a god.
Think about it, some religions are claiming one thing.. others are claiming another while i'm not going to point out religions if even one of them is telling the truth than the rest are lying.

 

[AsyLum]

I do not pick and choose i was using it as an example of how pointless it is to have a faith yet only pick and choose.
My main point is that you have accused me of being arrogant in my beliefs because i claim to know more than god, however you then say you can believe in some things but not others?
I think it's funny how you can pick up a book and choose to believe the parts you like but ignore the rest saying they're just metaphors, lies, however all your bits are the truth.

Arrogant about your beliefs because you know more than god, this statement of your's suggests you firstly a) believe in a god b) are of a higher scale than us mere humans. So please, oh great one, please give us your thoughts so we can blindly follow you.

There are some parts that are based upon morality, these are the more humanist parts such as 'thou shalt not kill, be nice to one another' and of that, the rest is about gods and really quite weird stuff... you don't really need a book to teach you morality.

I had always thought the reason why such religions had continued to exist was due to this humanist notion of morality being tightly wound within religion, this shows you're a) disregard/ignorance towards the purpose,context and historicity of religion and morality or b) you have conveniently decided this was not needed, picking sections out to criticise?

I was talking about the truth as in wether there is a God or not, there must either be a god or not.
As for the man murdering his family out of boredom, that situation is logical. If you could study that persons entire life, learn everything about their brain, how it works, then focus upon that moment you would understand logically why they killed their family.

Do i even need to respond logically to this paragraph? I claimed there is no one objective truth, and you have just said exactly that, the TRUTH RELATING to the existence of a God. Both parties lack this empiricist evidence needed to 'convert' the majority of people over. Debating this on the basis of a 'truth' would be useless without such evidence. As for the man killing his family out of boredom as being logical, that would have to be the stupidest thing i have ever heard.

You're trying to use the idea of subjectivity and perspectives to prove that religion isn't built upon lies? because they have constructed what they see as the truth?
If that's what you're saying then I won't argue with it but it seems a pretty loose foundation for believing in a god.
Think about it, some religions are claiming one thing.. others are claiming another while i'm not going to point out religions if even one of them is telling the truth than the rest are lying.

Is not any opinion a perceived individuals constructed 'truth.' Again, so as such, you hold that there IS subjectivity and perspectives, again i ask you, what is it? Is there a singular truth or is it rather a collective amongst individuals. Please make up you're mind, you cannot claim that there is one truth, and then claim you know more than any of us. That you are indeed 'superior' to us, would be foolhardy and amongst other things quite ignorant.

Think about it, some religions are claiming one thing.. others are claiming another while i'm not going to point out religions if even one of them is telling the truth than the rest are lying.

Im sorry, are you saying that various religions have a point of view, and if such if one is true, then thus the rest must be wrong logically right? So are you suggesting a religion therefore CAN hold a singular truth applicable to humanity? Thus this rant, IS not one on religion but of you're vendetta against Christianity?

 

[usher]

I've been following this thread for a while and im confuse about the belief of 'Hell'. What is 'Hell'? Is it a good place or a bad place?
Many ppl who has posted a reply on this thread have said that 'Hell' is place where the 'Murders, rapists' and so on are sent to be punished fofr their crimes in the 'mortal' life, but if thats the case then isnt hell a good thing becasue those who have committed unrelentless crimes in the mortal life are senetenced and punished for this?

But what most ppl believe is that in order for them to do live 'blissfully in kingdom of God' and to avoid "eternal damnation" then they have to live a just life on earth thus making the 'mortal' life for all much bearable. But arent we just doing this because we are afraid? Afraid of what comes next. Afraid of the unknown. I say lets embrace everything we do not caring about the consequences but yet still having a 'Humanist' view of each other.

Three main quotes i live by:

Instead of "God made man in the likeness of himself" it should be "Man made God in the Likeness of Himself!"

"Religion is the opt of society"

"There aint not athiest in a fox hole"

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You have taken what i said wrong and twisted my words.
I was saying that you seem to view that i am percieving myself as more knoweldgable than god...

why DO you think god exists?

I don't believe because from what i've learnt about religions explanations for different things i've come to the conclusion that they're simply just inaccurate and implausable. Compare the bible, or the quoran with your maths, geology, science, evolution, cosmology books and you will realise how inconsistant and basically wrong these books are in comparison...

I also don't believe because i've found MOST people who believe are simply complacent in their belief, they believe because that is what is expected of them and they have merely just accepted it.

Most religions seem to claim connections with the one diety, they all claim different things and all claim to be the one truth. Obviously i had no reason to believe in christianity over hinduism or judaism or even islam, so i thought maybe they could all be wrong. The world makes logical sense when you remove a god or a diety, many people try to distance a diety from the world to claim that is how the world has become the way it is, and why it has so many natural explanations.

As for atheists in foxholes... there have been atheists in foxholes, many atheists who have served in wars, many atheists who have died still believing in atheism.

 

[AsyLum]

My main point is that you have accused me of being arrogant in my beliefs because i claim to know more than god,

Thats a pretty clear statement there.

Why do i think? I think there is a God due to my faith, MY personal beliefs, MY opinions. Is that too hard to comprehend that I have an opinion?

 

[joujou_84]

I've been following this thread for a while and im confuse about the belief of 'Hell'. What is 'Hell'? Is it a good place or a bad place?
Many ppl who has posted a reply on this thread have said that 'Hell' is place where the 'Murders, rapists' and so on are sent to be punished fofr their crimes in the 'mortal' life, but if thats the case then isnt hell a good thing becasue those who have committed unrelentless crimes in the mortal life are senetenced and punished for this?

But what most ppl believe is that in order for them to do live 'blissfully in kingdom of God' and to avoid "eternal damnation" then they have to live a just life on earth thus making the 'mortal' life for all much bearable. But arent we just doing this because we are afraid? Afraid of what comes next. Afraid of the unknown. I say lets embrace everything we do not caring about the consequences but yet still having a 'Humanist' view of each other.

Three main quotes i live by:

Instead of "God made man in the likeness of himself" it should be "Man made God in the Likeness of Himself!"

"Religion is the opt of society"

"There aint not athiest in a fox hole"

yeh hell is a good thing. however u cant say hell is good coz u are describing it. it is like jail. is jail a good place? no its a bad place but its good to have jails so we can lock up bad ppl. same with hell. its a bad place but at the same time having hell is a good thing coz it punishes those that managed to avoid their sentencing in the mortal world.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

ok you have an opinion. Why do you have an opinion? you have a belief because of your personal beliefs and you beliefs without any evidence and your opinions (which are beliefs).

Good answer.

 

[ogmzergrush]

why DO you think god exists?

Hey congratulations, you're the first person ever to question religion and 'disprove' it! You win the prize.

Seriously, what does it even matter? It's painfully obvious that religion works for some people, and not others. Obviously if some people are devoutly faithful, and others aren't, there's never going to be an answer acceptable to both parties, because each wants all or nothing.

Each side of the discussion has their own 'valid' proof, and each sees the other's proof as lacking, due to its contradiction of their own beliefs, so it's never really going to go anywhere.

I'm not sure what you think that question is going to achieve, realistically nobody is going to say "Oh, you're right, there is no god, my mistake."

Personally, I'm not religious at all, but if other people want to think that god exists, that's their business. Whatever gets them through the day is cool with me.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

ok cool that was not the point of this thread, the point of this thread was to explain why you believe in god.

 

[joujou_84]

Hey congratulations, you're the first person ever to question religion and 'disprove' it! You win the prize.

Seriously, what does it even matter? It's painfully obvious that religion works for some people, and not others. Obviously if some people are devoutly faithful, and others aren't, there's never going to be an answer acceptable to both parties, because each wants all or nothing.

Each side of the discussion has their own 'valid' proof, and each sees the other's proof as lacking, due to its contradiction of their own beliefs, so it's never really going to go anywhere.

I'm not sure what you think that question is going to achieve, realistically nobody is going to say "Oh, you're right, there is no god, my mistake."

Personally, I'm not religious at all, but if other people want to think that god exists, that's their business. Whatever gets them through the day is cool with me.

uh he didnt disprove anything coz he couldnt prove god dosent exist.......however i agree with everything else u said.

 

[ogmzergrush]

ok cool that was not the point of this thread, the point of this thread was to explain why you believe in god.

My mistake indeed. For a second there it looked like you were questioning the beliefs of others, rather than explaining why you didn't believe.

 

[ogmzergrush]

uh he didnt disprove anything coz he couldnt prove god dosent exist.......however i agree with everything else u said.

'disprove', not disprove I realise that it's disproven nothing, I was being sarcastic.

 

[joujou_84]

'disprove', not disprove I realise that it's disproven nothing, I was being sarcastic.

my mistake i didnt see the 'disprove'...............

 

[osk]

Originally Posted by usher
I've been following this thread for a while and im confuse about the belief of 'Hell'. What is 'Hell'? Is it a good place or a bad place?
Many ppl who has posted a reply on this thread have said that 'Hell' is place where the 'Murders, rapists' and so on are sent to be punished fofr their crimes in the 'mortal' life, but if thats the case then isnt hell a good thing becasue those who have committed unrelentless crimes in the mortal life are senetenced and punished for this?

But what most ppl believe is that in order for them to do live 'blissfully in kingdom of God' and to avoid "eternal damnation" then they have to live a just life on earth thus making the 'mortal' life for all much bearable. But arent we just doing this because we are afraid? Afraid of what comes next. Afraid of the unknown. I say lets embrace everything we do not caring about the consequences but yet still having a 'Humanist' view of each other.

Hey Usher,

Being a Christian, Ill give you an explanation of Hell from our point of view.

A Christian believes Hell to be a place where all people who do not accept Jesus as Saviour go.

Contrary to popular belief, Hell is not necessarily a place of Fire and Heat, but is defined as a place of separation from God, therefore a separation from all that is good, since we believe all goodness is God given. The punishment of Hell is therefore a result of isolation...imagine being on your own for ever and ever with no hope of happiness or joy....

Also, Hell will not be a place of suffering only for 'bad' people like murderers and rapists. It will be filled with anyone, no matter how 'good', who refused the saving work of Jesus. We believe that any sin, no matter how small, set us apart from God, who is without sin, and, since God is fair, he punishes sin by sending people to eternity in Hell.

However we believe since God is a loving God, He also offered us a way to escape Hell.....He placed our sins on His Son Jesus, and offered a way out of Hell for those who merely put their faith in Jesus. We believe this salvation is open to anyone, be it murderer or dear old granny who hasnt accepted Jesus.

Some might say that God is unfair in providing such a narrow way to salvation....but we believe since God is a just God, all who live will have a chance to either accept or reject Jesus by the time that God judges mankind.

So there you have it....this is the Christian viewpoint on what Hell is...it is definantly a BAD place.